I’m a little surprised at the lack of response to the new Essentials design philosophy on this board. No talk of an Essentials style artificer (I’ve only found one mediocre version on the general internet), no discussion of how dragonmark feats could or should be updated (the Aberrant dragonmarks don’t even work with some of the “no-daily” builds), no thoughts on Cleric domains, no reflections on how the changes in item creation and the phasing out of rituals affects the setting’s technology emphasis…
I mean, I can’t be the only one thinking of running an Essentials based Eberron campaign right? I can’t be the only one trying to patch over the old assumptions, right?
... the confusing, outdated, newbie-unfriendly, and cluttered pre-Essentials designs are still there, etc. I get it. I know Essentials isn't a replacement and everything is still "ok", but do we really want to settle for pre-Essentials material? Isn't anyone working to bring all that up to date?
That would mean re-buying again all the books...
Better wait another edition!
I don't understand, how would any of this involve "re-buying again all the books"?
Huh?
I don't understand, how would any of this involve "re-buying again all the books"?
My bad, I forgot about the articles...
I still live in a world where the paper is the only way to sell rpgs :p
Anyway, Eberron is not worse than any other setting about Essentials, a lot of classes don't have an Essential build and a lot of talents are incompatible or interact in unintended ways... The setting itself though is totally compatible, a couple of rules do not merge very well, but this is hardly the only case...
... The setting itself though is totally compatible, a couple of rules do not merge very well, but this is hardly the only case...
Right, so, where are all the posts by clever people working to fix these issues? The Forgotten Realms folks were pretty quick to start patching on their own. I see an enthusiasm gap here.
Having run an Essentials only game that fixed most of these issues, I'm just eager to port it over to Eberron.
So I'm going to guess there's pretty much nothing out there then? Let's just hope they release a book for Eberron that does what Neverwinter did for Forgotten Realms.
So I'm going to guess there's pretty much nothing out there then? Let's just hope they release a book for Eberron that does what Neverwinter did for Forgotten Realms.
I know that I am not alone in thinking that any Eberron release is a good thing. Personally, I would love to see a 4e variation of the Five Nations in the same light as the Neverwinter book.
Well, I mean, I would love to see a number of releases(Xen'drik, Greater Khorvaire, Mournland, Sharn, Drangonmarks, etc), but that would seem to be the most universally useful if we only got one. Heck, I would love to have anything at all from Eberron - from adventures to monsters to organizations to nations to any other source books.
The Essentials and current design philsophy is all about making the hobby more accessible, which one can imagine comes at the expense of people who are hooked and committed fans. Every time I see someone bragging on the CharOp boards about their optimized Slayer, I want to send them "Fisher Price's My First D&D Book." Essentials is meant to be simple. Eberron is meant to be complicated. Complicated is not the direction WotC wants to go.
Now, just to offer some apologetics, I like the Essentials classes. I love having a nice simple class so I can focus on making an intricate interesting character if you follow me. Every time I hear someone agonizing about what's the "best" 3rd level rogue or fighter power, I love having that work done so I can get involved in the story, you know, why we chose Eberron in the first place. You don't choose Eberron if you want your DM to show up with 4 maps and 4 groups of people for you to kill each week. That's why there will never be an Eberron Encounters program. Yeah you can play Indiana Jones style swashbuckling adventurers, but D&D as a whole has moved in that direction. It's not specific to Eberron anymore. That discussion's been held before.
That's my 2 coppers. Really trying not to offer a biased response.
I follow the rule that when the story slows down for a tick I have a door kicked in or a chase begin. The world begs for big bad daily's used on big bad guys. Its screams for the variety that makes the story unpredictable. I guess that I never gave essentials a chance because it is too basic. I like 4e just fine, I think 3.5 was great for Eberron, but essentials is just way to lame. How would an esentials artificer even work? They would be just a straght buff machine with little else to do, no?
I will seriously look into essentials, maybe I am missing something, I like the new monsters that came with it...
I'm glad you found something you like. Ideally, everyone should have a design they can get excited to play. That said, Talae had it right, in our case, in observing a lack of passion for the Essentials design philosophy. I don't hold it in the same contempt you seem to have for O4E, but I'm no fan. Fortunately for my camp, the designers heard the outcry and have recently revisited the O4E design.
Our groups contain E-Classes, from time to time. I'm not sure why one would need to tailor Eberron to Essentials. Things are fine as is. Both styles fit perfectly well. It's all 4E DnD, just in different packaging and flavors. Fortunately, we can all have our favorite flavor at one game-table.
The aformentioned Artificer class surely needs an update of some sort. I think an AEDU update would make more sense, as it would not render obsolete a ton of existing powers. Maybe, someday before 5E, we'll get an update. Until then, all my Artificers are Hybrids.
"The city is small...A visitor to Sharn is likely to get lost in the teeming masses. You'll quickly get to know the people of Stormreach, and you'll have a chance to meet even the most important people in the city. Wander the market for a day, and you'll likely see Lord Lassite. Take a week and you might know half the artisans, all the innkeepers, and the city's magistrates..."
That sounds perfectly suited for this style of supplement, to me. There are numerous suitable threats for all three tiers of play, and you'll find political intrigue, criminal organizations, dungeons, urban adventures, mighty economic powers and other suitable sponsors/foes, and a vast, untamed frontier right outside your doorstep... it's perfect!
It could also be easily dropped into virtually any setting with minimal tuning, making it a versatile supplement (probably more so than Neverwinter). Are you playing in the Realms? Maybe it's a city on the coast of Chult. You could be fighting for or against Amnian interests, trekking into the jungles in search of ruins, battling natives of all sorts... a wild frontier city can work in any setting.
I really feel like Stormreach lends itself to this treatment even better than Neverwinter does, and that ended up being a fine product. It seems we're getting Menzoberranzan in 2012. If we aren't all reading 5E announcements by the time Summer 2013 rolls around, "The City of Stormreach Campaign Guide" sure would be a great product.
Threadcromancy!
Second, Menzo is going to be released next year? Citation, please.
Third, do you have the NWCS? How extensive is it? Would making a Stormreach Campaign Setting result in more information? I didn't even look at the NWCS 'cause I flat-out don't care about the Realms.
First, if you are resurrecting a dead thread, the approved way to do it is as follows:
Threadcromancy!
Second, Menzo is going to be released next year? Citation, please.
Third, do you have the NWCS? How extensive is it? Would making a Stormreach Campaign Setting result in more information? I didn't even look at the NWCS 'cause I flat-out don't care about the Realms.
Nice. I'll remember "threadcromancy". Things are so slow around here, it's often the only way to go. I miss the good old days of regular Eberron releases. Sigh.
Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue was spoiled about a month ago by Amazon. I could create a link, but just typing "Menzoberranzan" into Amazon's search bar will take you straight to it. We have no real information beyond that title and the August 21, 2012 release date, but the current consensus is that this will be the Paragon tier equivalent to the NWCS. We'll see. EDIT: There's actually at least one current thread on this topic in the Future Releases forum.
I do have NWCS. It's a great book. It is pretty extensive, without plotting your entire campaign for you. It provides a ton of hooks and "what ifs" for a DM. I'll try to give a quick breakdown, below. I hope we get a book of this sort each year. The concept is great, and the writing is top notch.
Introduction -- Gives the 9 hallmarks of a Neverwinter Campaign, much like the other Campaign Setting books.
Chapter 1 : Jewel of the North -- 6 pages of history for Neverwinter. This was especially important, since this was our first peek at Neverwinter in the 1479DR timeframe.
Chapter 2 : Character Options -- This is where you'll find 13 Character Themes tailor-made for the setting, a few racial variants (alternate racial features) tailored to the FR, 4 new Warpriest domains (for Faerunian gods) and the Bladesinger Wizard class. The themes are especially impressive, as they really define a character's starting point in the setting, and how NPCs/Factions will be inclined to react to them.
Chapter 3 : Factions and Foes -- This section is great. It provides 5 major factions operating in Neverwinter, gives a history of their dealings therein and recommendations on how the DM might use them in the campaign. It also provides 8 other smaller, less powerful factions, and similar information for them. Lastly, there are around 8 new monsters provided.
Chapter 4 : Gazetteer -- This is where you learn about the city itself and its surrounding environs. You learn what is where, who is where, etc... This section is nearly 100 pages, on its own.
Scattered throughout are sidebars suggesting "Theme Tie-ins" (how might a situation play our differently if one of your characters is an Uthgardt barbarian, or a Shadovar expatriate, etc...), assorted plot twists, suggestions on how a DM might adjust to the unexpected, etc...
This is probably the most useful supplement I've seen in 4E. The writing is top notch, equalled only by the ECG, in my estimation. There was even some quality DDI support released immediately after the book launched, including two additional themes and an adventure for low-level characters.
The book gives you all you need for a campaign set in Neverwinter. Due to the size and circumstance of the city, even heroic tier adventurers can have a huge impact. That was the design goal, and they pulled it off beautifully.
Stormreach would be perfect for this type of supplement. It's a small, action-packed city with suitable challenges of every sort across all three tiers of play. It's even easily ported into other settings for those silly folks who don't play in Eberron. ;)
It goes without saying that Keith and James would have to be on board to do the bulk of the writing. The writers of the NWCS have a passion for the Realms, and you can really feel it when you read the book. I'd expect the same for Eberron, and that means Keith Baker and James Wyatt at the forefront of the project.
One can dream, right?
