Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 durskut Oct 04, 2008 14:29:26	Hello community, I had my game meltdown on me thursday night a need some help. Basically, while I am extremely handy with the 3.5 rules, 3 of 4 players in my game are not, and do not care to be. Many things were discussed, but the net result is as follows: my game isn't going to be played for a bit (the group is actually giving the Serenity rpg a try) and when we get back to it it'll be under 4th edition. The primary concern is the characters' conversion. They are: Halfling Ranger --> Halfling Outrider Human Druid (Warden) --> ? Gnome Rogue --> Shadowdancer Gnome Bard/Cleric --> Divine Prankster Of primary concern are the Druid and Bard/Cleric. However the paragon paths replacing PrCs could also be a real challenge. Does the community have any ideas on converting the more problematic points or attempts at new paragon path powers to cover the change? Thanks in advance.
#2 rauric Oct 04, 2008 20:34:44	Goodman games has a book out this month that covers a druid like PC. Druids will be different than they were in 3.5. They will (i think) be able to summon spirit animals and be controllers, but will not be able to shape change. Perhaps by a ritual or utility spell shapechanging will occur.
#3 Dargurd Oct 05, 2008 0:58:41	There was a great druid write up over on the EN World forums in the fan created section. It was based around the concept of druids from WoW and it did read very well - you might want to give that a try.
#4 Gilo Oct 07, 2008 12:16:54	Its easy to flavor the existing 4E PHB/play-test classes as other classes: A fey-pact warlock can be played as a Druid, Warlord/Artificer/Swordmage could be choices for a Bard (just flavor there spells/exploits , select some armor/multiclass feats when needed, and the appropriate skill selections).
#5 skrap-san Oct 07, 2008 14:47:10	I'm to lazy to link all of them but here is what i found searching for the articles. Basically its a "how to convert" series of articles.
#6 inkblot Oct 08, 2008 16:57:21	The primary concern is the characters' conversion. They are: Halfling Ranger --> Halfling Outrider Human Druid (Warden) --> ? Gnome Rogue --> Shadowdancer Gnome Bard/Cleric --> Divine Prankster Of primary concern are the Druid and Bard/Cleric. However the paragon paths replacing PrCs could also be a real challenge. Does the community have any ideas on converting the more problematic points or attempts at new paragon path powers to cover the change? Thanks in advance. We need more information. What kinds of things did these characters do during combats, and during non-combat challenges? Without knowing that, here's my best guess: Halfling Ranger/Outrider Halfling Ranger, with a riding dog that uses the stats for the Onyx Dog. Make an exception to the rule that all mounts must be large, and let the Onyx Dog level with the halfling (with +5hp per level and the 1/2 level bonus to everything). Alternatively, wait until the Beastmaster Ranger class option comes out in Martial Power in a few months. Human Druid: Druid was such a do-it-all class that it's actually impossible to remake in 4e. The player must pick one aspect of the class to convert. Wildshaping isn't possible yet without houserules. I'd say Cleric (for melee fighting and buffs) multiclassed into Wizard (for elemental controlling effects). You could even houserule that the Disguise Self spell lets him look like animals instead of humanoids. Gnome Rogue/Shadowdancer: Gnome Rogue, multiclassed into Warlock. The Rogue class alone can do most of the things a Shadowdancer can, including turn invisible. Warlock is necessary for teleporting. Alternatively, start as a Warlock and multiclass into Rogue. Depends how much you want to emphasize the Shadowdancer's supernatural side. Gnome Bard/Cleric/Divine Trickster: Gnome Cleric multiclassed into Rogue. Clerics get the kind of party support powers that bards used to have, and the character is already part cleric. He can still sing while using his powers. Multiclassing into Rogue will give him most of the tricky skills he needs (many skills were rolled into Thievery). For the rest a couple Skill Training feats, and/or the Jack Of All Trades feat will help.
#7 lugnut71 Oct 13, 2008 19:08:31	Truthfully dependent on how long until you start playing again none of these should be a problem. Next month in martial power beastmaster ranger Then early next year (don't know the month) return of the druid and bard in phb II. Although the best thing to do would be to look at existing classes and see if they fit. For instance if your Druid didn't focus on wild shape and just cast spells you might be better going wizard/cleric. Bard/cleric you could just port over wholesale as a Warlord easily and just refluff his powers as songs.
#8 durskut Oct 13, 2008 20:15:53	Sorry I haven't had time to respond sooner, however these are my thoughts so far: Halfling Ranger: He's a Talenta halfling, and thus has a dino for his mount. I was figuring on simply adjusting the riding lizards from the adventurer's vault. And as for his primary tactic of using talenta boomerangs, well, there's a nice thread about those weapons....really not much to do here till paragon. Human druid: Wildshaping is not a problem, they were only lvl 3, so she didn't have it yet. Neither is the animal companion because she often forgot Tio was there. Her role is much more the problem. The Bard/Cleric was very much the leader of the group (in the buff and the major noncombat character categories) and the usual cleric/wizard adjustment for the druid leaves this group with 2 strikers and 2 leaders. Having only a handful of hours of 4th edition experience i have no idea if a party like that could survive. The only spells I can recall her using are produce flame, flaming sphere, and healing when needed. Otherwise she closed to melee and used her scimitar. Are there any other class combos which could yield this kind of feel? Alternately, can anyone back me up on thinking a [heavily reflavored] Paladin/Infernal Warlock wouldn't be too far off? Gnome Rogue: No warlock, she plays the rogue straight up and no amount of multiclassing can get the fey teleportation. Gnome Divine Prankster: Good ideas, the only hitch is Bluff was a big skill of his, which is easily fixed by a skill training feat. Summary: Ranger is fine, just need to tone down the riding lizards. Druid is the hard one, as the typical answer doubles up roles and leaves the group with no defender. Enter reflavored Paladin/Inferlock? Rogue has no problems. Cleric/Bard goes Cleric with possible rogue multiclass, he was never very sneaky or combative, just deceptive. Edit: Bonus points for 2 things: 1. Give an opinion why/whynot an assault swordmage is/isn't a duskblade. 2. Ideas on what the Warden of the Wood sect feat for 4e might look like.
#9 lugnut71 Oct 15, 2008 11:32:54	Yeah Druid is hard, lets see uses very few spells but also likes to fight in melee. I guess how long is it going to be until you start playing again? What I would do is see what she envisions the character like. If she planned on sticking to the fighting with the scimitar I would go one way and if she planned on using spells later on I would go another. Actually the game can work fine with 2 strikers and 2 leaders. Although I would avoid using lots of minions if I was you. Most likely as a group they will take lots of damage but will have ample healing, and do enough damage that most opponents will go down fast. (Also if you go cleric/wizard it will make a decent controller, as cleric has a few controller spells). I was thinking more wizard with cleric multiclass pick up longsword proficiency (or if you don't care about changing the rules just allow a scimitar to work) with a feat and call it a scimitar, then go into Wizard of the Spiral Tower. That is assuming she wants to do keep being melee. I don't know how well it well work in terms of optimizing but it will allow here to keep her fire spells, she can pick up some cleric weapon powers, and since she has an extra feat being human grab leather armor, combined with a decent intelligence for a well rounded AC.
#10 Gilo Oct 15, 2008 13:03:45	Druid is the hard one How about a Druid as Wizard/Cleric (instead of a Cleric/Wizard) then you will have a controller class too (flaming sphere and some healing). edit flavoring wizard as druid ideas: Magic Hand -> small animal companion that can fly/walk and pickup things for the druid Cloud of Daggers -> Insect Plague Magic Missile -> Fire Seeds Thunderwave -> Earthquake Ray of Enfeeblement -> Contagion Flaming Sphere -> Flaming Sphere Sleep -> Entangle Shield -> Barkskin
#11 durskut Oct 15, 2008 21:31:22	Yeah, guess I was reaching in the dark as far as ideas on what they might end up. As I said, I've only played 4e for a total of around 5-6 hours, and that was with a Paladin, Warlock, Warlord group. We went in knowing roles needed to be filled and were pretty pro about the level of co-operation we would need (we told the dm not to pull punches [read: 3 PCs vs. 5 pc challenges]). I guess my previous WoW experience really locked into my head the "you need a tank and healer, others are welcome." However, if 4e mobs can't one shot non-defender PCs (as many elites in WoW one or 2 shot dps and healers) then I can completely see 2 leaders working. And yes, it is entirely possible we may not play until the PHB II (with Druid and Bard and more gnome options) and/or the Eberron books are out, but it's fun to play mind games in the meantime. Now if only I could riddle out how to convert my favorite npc....
#12 lugnut71 Oct 16, 2008 10:23:53	Yeah very few creatures could one shot any character barring fluke things (multiple criticals in a row, type stuff).
#13 Daelkyr Oct 21, 2008 22:20:10	One thing you should seriously look at is Ari Marmell's Advanced Player's Guide from Expeditous Retreat Press found HERE in .pdf format and HERE in print. It has the Martial Artist, Nature Priest, Savage Warrior, and Troubadour classes that supplement that old 3.5 class feel. As well, there are the Orc-blooded, earth gnome, and Shire halfling for races that have a 3.5 feel to them. I highly recommend it if you're looking for those missing classes.