Goliath in Eberron

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

JohnLynch

Aug 01, 2008 8:11:31
So now that we know the Goliath will be in PHB2, I'm wondering how they fit into Eberron? I doubt there's any canon way (is there?), and I'm curious to see if Keith can say whether or not they plan (at this time) to be featured in the 4e Eberron source books? I'd say there's a good chance they will be as PHB2 is being released before the source books, although I don't know for sure.

Assuming Keith can't comment one way or another (or he says there won't be a canon explanation), how do people here plan to include them?

I'm thinking of having them live in the Shadow Marches where they migrated from an unknown region (could be anything from Frostfell to Sarlona to Xen'drik) long, long ago. It isn't their canon native region (assuming 4e keeps them to living in mountainous places), however it keeps them out of the history of the Five Nations. They could have started travelling abroad only recently, thanks to the building of Goliaths moving across the rest of Khorvaire and in Stormreach could be a recent occurrence, thanks to the increase in commerce.

Alternatively you could stick them in Q'barra which does have mountains and would let them remain apart from most of the history of the Five Nations. Although I have a feeling that's where Dragonborn are going to be put, so I'm avoiding the region myself.

Or you could put them on the other side of the Endworld Mountains and have them be trading partners to the nomadic halflings. Perhaps they're taking a more active interest in the rest of Khorvaire because of the incursions by the Valenar elves?
#2

Alas

Aug 01, 2008 9:07:03
I definitely see them as more of a Khorvaire race than a Sarlona race (although, their 3.5-ed flavor makes them a good match for Adar...). I'd put them in the Byeshk Mountains, keeping them out of the Mror dwarves' way for most of history.
#3

ieattrollsforbreakfast

Aug 01, 2008 12:21:59
The Player's Guide to Eberron suggests they are found in the Shadowcrags in the Eldeen Reaches and several ranges in Xen'drik, including a tribe of couatl worshippers in the Titan's Teeth range. The sidebar on page 56 suggests they originated in Xen'drik, but many abandoned the continent with the rise of the giant civilisation.
#4

Amaril

Aug 01, 2008 13:28:17
Interestingly enough, Races of Stone indicates that they are sometimes enslaved by stone giants.

However, giants have a bad habit of trying to turn goliaths into their slaves, using them for menial tasks they’re too big or too lazy to do themselves. Conflict inevitably ensues, and soon either the giants are dead, the goliaths have fled, or the goliaths are chained up as slaves to a giant-lord.

It'd be interesting to add goliaths as common natives in Xen'drik, walking the streets in Stormreach or trading and warring with different drow tribes. Alliances with drow against aggressive giant tribes could be played out, too.

I've often wondered how goliaths and half-giants would interact as well.
#5

Arcane_Guyver

Aug 02, 2008 7:46:28
I always played them up as the slaves of giants in Xendrik. Of all the "stick it in Xendrik!" stuff, I felt the goliaths fit best.
#6

Gilo

Oct 19, 2008 15:41:59
Can the Goliath be the nomadic half-giants of Sarlona?
#7

fabius_maximus

Oct 19, 2008 16:07:29
Can the Goliath be the nomadic half-giants of Sarlona?

No. Nomadic Half-Giants are nomadic Half-Giants. ;)
#8

Hellcow

Oct 19, 2008 19:49:19
I'm curious to see if Keith can say whether or not they plan (at this time) to be featured in the 4e Eberron source books?

It depends how you define the word "featured". I can't say for sure, and it's not my decision to make. However, I think that the 4E Eberron material will provide suggestions for the races statted up for PC use in the two PHBs - from Dragonborn and Tieflings to the new races of the PHB II. However, as we've said before, the setting is not going to be transformed as a result of this. There aren't going to be tiefling or goliath dragonmarked houses. Zilargo isn't becoming a nation of dragonborn. My goal is to ensure that every exotic race we deal with is given a logical and compelling place in the world, something that provides interesting hooks for a PC to explore... but at the same time, that doesn't break the world you know and cause previous storylines to fall apart. Dragonmarked and The Five Nations should still be accurate. Perhaps T5N doesn't mention the small community of tieflings in Thrane, who claim that they are touched by both the Silver Flame and the demon bound within it, shunned by most but nonetheless among its most devout champions, producing "infernal" warlocks who wield silver flame. But the existence of such a village doesn't dramatically change Thrane; these tieflings make up a tiny segment of the population of Thrane and are all but unknown beyond their local area. That's the sort of thing you're likely to see - ideas that give a player hooks to work with, but don't force you to tear pages out of your previous sourcebooks. The one exception to this IS the PGtE; these suggestions may contradict the flavor suggestions for exotic races provided in the PGtE, which in many cases are very simple overviews. If a race is mentioned at all, I hope that it will be given enough depth to support a number of compelling character ideas.

I'll note that the tiefling example above ISN'T one that's going to be in the 4E books - I made it up on the spot. It's very specific, and you won't have a race that's bound to a single religion, single class, or anything like that. But it still gives you a sense of how a race can have an interesting place in the world without changing the world itself.
#9

18DELTA

Oct 19, 2008 20:25:30
-That is PURE AWESOME!!! Consider it stolen.


18DELTA :D
#10

PJammaGod

Oct 20, 2008 7:19:11
We need to steal Hellcow's brain, put it in a jar and have it work on pure Eberron law for the rest of eternity
#11

18DELTA

Oct 20, 2008 7:43:01
-I guess I know why Gleemax failed now! ;)


18DELTA
#12

Gilo

Oct 20, 2008 7:48:23
We need to steal Hellcow's brain, put it in a jar and have it work on pure Eberron law for the rest of eternity

Futurama style ;) :

IMAGE(http://www.badongo.com/t/250/4616509)
#13

rekko

Oct 20, 2008 9:42:12
I've put my hand on a copy of Races of Stone and just finished reading the Goliath section. There are a few things that caught my attention to choose the place of Goliaths on Eberron.

Goliaths live in the mountains. Goliaths trade with dwarves and giants. Goliaths have skin patterns that are said to represent one's destiny, though not a dragonmark, it could be linked to the Prophecy somehow. Goliaths are highly competitive, and social. They keep track of what their accomplishments are. Strong oral tradition, added with gestures and body language. And last, they are physical.

As some before me said, I'd put them in Xen'drik. Yes, they fit there like everything else. However, I have a problem with that. There are some good elements to why they could be in Khorvaire. And since my guess is that they don't have a strong naval tradition, a question arises as to how they got to Khorvaire.

It could have been Giant explorers, or colonists, that brought their goliath slaves with them. It could have been Hobgoblins or Orcs that traded Goliath slaves with Giants. We have almost no information about Khorvaire during the Age of Giants, so maybe the orcs or goblins were trading with giants? It could be pirates who raided and pillaged goliath tribes, then set them loose on Khorvaire. Maybe Goliaths have a competition to cross the Thunder Sea by either swimming, or rowing to the other side of the sea. Or maybe Khorvaire and Xen'drik were physically connected before Xen'drik was shaken to its core by Giant Magic.


Here's what I came up with

I like the competition to cross the Thunder Sea. Maybe Goliaths lived in the mountains around the Hydra river, and once a year the many exiled and those courageous enough to undertake the challenge would meet at the Hydra's mouth where it pours itself in the Thunder Sea. A stable Goliath tent-village could have been raised there and developed primitive naval traditions to improve their fishing. Goliaths that participate in the Great Crossing would be split in two teams, each with a rowing boat. Of course, many of the Goliaths who undertake the crossing die of fatigue and exhaustion, starvation, dehydratation, attacks from sea creatures, and drowning. Some Goliath rowing teams reach shores they think is the other continent while in fact they are still in Xen'drik. Shores like those near Stormreach of Shargon strait, and the Shargon teeth.

However, some lucky or very talented Goliaths have made it to the other side of the Thunder Sea and put a foot down on Khorvairian soil. Goliaths have set foot on about all shores of Southern Khorvaire, from the Shadow Marshes to Valenar, and even Aerenal. From there, they travelled north until they either found a welcoming community, or some mountains where they could establish their new tribes. As such, Goliaths can be found in all mountain ranges of Southern Khorvaire, being more common in the west of Darguun (Byeshk, the Great Crag, Graywall, Blackcaps, Howling Peaks, Seawall) However, those few who landed on what would become Valenar have established themselve in the Endworld and Ironroot ranges, which now holds very small communities of Goliaths.

Because of the events in the Age of Monsters, and then those in the Present Age, Goliaths from the West had a lot of relation with orcs and goblins and other monstrous humanoid instead of dwarves. Some goliath tribes suffer goblin slavery, others serve the druid ways of the orcs and fought against the Daelkyr, some are used or were slaughtered by the Daughters of Sora Kell. Some medusas turned entire tribes into True Beings of Stone. Yet, the Goliaths are still few in numbers and try to stay out of people's way.

Today, Deneith and Tharashk are trying hard to make the Goliaths join the ranks of their mercenary. Their nature of keeping track of numbers and their accomplishments is a talent Kundarak and Sivis are trying to recruit. Even Phiarlan tries to include Goliath oral storytelling in their circus. Yet, most of the Goliaths you can find in the cities of Khorvaire are either adventurers or exiled. Most of the Goliaths try to stick to their old customs. However, From time to time, a Goliath rowing boat hits the soil of Khorvaire, and these Goliaths try to adapt themselves to the nation they landed in, until they hear of an existing Goliath tribe they want to find out about. Also, Stormreachers have been seeing lot of Goliaths in their region and are starting expeditions with Morgrave and the Wayfinders toward the Hydra to discover the origin of the Goliaths. A meeting that could change Goliath's life on both continent.

Rekko
#14

PJammaGod

Oct 20, 2008 11:01:56
Futurama style ;) :

IMAGE(http://www.badongo.com/t/250/4616509)

Gilo wins a cookie for that one!!!
#15

18DELTA

Oct 20, 2008 11:17:24
Futurama style ;) :

IMAGE(http://www.badongo.com/t/250/4616509)

-:OMG! Is that Barbra Striesand(sp) next to him? :P


18DELTA :D
#16

skrap-san

Oct 20, 2008 13:04:30
Zilargo isn't becoming a nation of dragonborn.

That is because everyone knows that its the tieflings who live there. You said so yourself, at least a sentence with tiefling and Zilargo in it... :P
#17

rekko

Apr 10, 2009 12:51:53
#18

AvonRekaes

Apr 13, 2009 12:05:49
I ran a 3.5 Eberron game with goliaths in it. They lived in the Byshek Mountains, and were really the only source of Byshek weapons in the setting.

Since the main enemy of my game was a risen Dealkyr General, I wanted to make Byshek weapons rare. So the 5 Nations really only used the purple metal for jewelry. The Goliaths living in the mountains used it for weapons because it was the most readily available weapons-grade metal in the mountains they lived in.

So of course I made the pcs trek to the Byshek Mountains to get their dealkyr-bane weapons. And they picked up a goliath PC while they were there.
#19

skrapsan

Apr 13, 2009 15:35:22
So of course I made the pcs trek to the Byshek Mountains to get their dealkyr-bane weapons.

I rather enjoy the idea of the Goliath "guarding" the Byshek mines from the world.
#20

Gilo

Apr 13, 2009 15:50:43
I rather enjoy the idea of the Goliath "guarding" the Byshek mines from the world.

Interesting idea, my party just returned from Droaam where (among other things) they obtained a Byshek weapon. coincidentally a new player is joining the group and he wishes to play a Goliath Gatekeeper.
#21

grifo

Apr 14, 2009 5:59:00
I must admit I rather like this notion of Goliaths as part of the Gatekeepers.

I like this for two reasons:
a) It gives them a good spot in Eberron without making them too involved.
b) It keeps them away from Xendrik.

Now, I'm not a Xendrik hater, but it seems that the continent has become the setting's rubbish bin. Its not that you shouldn't put anything in there except Drow & giants & jungle monsters, its rather that you should try and see if something might not fit better somewhere else in the world.
Xendrik is an enormous blank with wild landscapes and mysterious ruins; if you're going to inhabit it with a new race, you should connect it with its environment in some unique way- and making the Goliaths Gatekeepers entrusted with guarding the Byshek mines is much more interesting then having them as just another race on Xendrik.

Other than that, putting them in the Byshek mountains gives me a great idea for a campaign: The PCs are a group of Gatekeepers during the war against the Dealkyr (sp) sent into the mountains after rumors have arrived of a huge grunt-like people who mine a a material that overcomes the Dealkyr's natural defense... (and as a side quest they should try and convert them:D )
#22

AvonRekaes

Apr 16, 2009 16:05:48
Oh wow, I totally should've have thought of that. I didn't think the Goliaths were "guarding" the Byshek, just that they were indigenous to the Byshek Mountains and the civilized nations just hadn't realized the benefits of Byshek in use for weapons because they're usually too busy killing each other, not abberations.

I like Goliaths having strong ties to the Gatekeepers too, but perhaps not actually be Gatekeepers. The Gatekeepers are supposed to be a dying tradition, and all other druidic sects more or less branching off of it. I like the idea of the Gatekeepers teaching the goliaths the secrets of druidism in exchange for guarding the world's main supply of Byshek.

Maybe they call themselves "Mountain Wardens", like how the Wardens of the Wood are pretty much a Gatekeeper off-shoot too.
#23

skrapsan

Apr 16, 2009 22:20:06
I find that the good thing about this idea of them being gate keepers is that it is still possible to use even if the Campaign setting goes in a totally different direction.
#24

doc_the_grey

Apr 17, 2009 12:44:50
another cool idea was that they were one of the first races that the giants tried to enslave due to there powerful builds and ability to use the giants tools without modification. problem was that they were hidden up in the high mountains of Xen'drik and much hardier then the elves and far more nomadic making the elves a much easier race to enslave. Many of the Goalith traditions were established during this time, an oral history helped cut down on what they needed to carry and would leave fewer written clues for the giants to use to track them, a friendly competitive edge amongst them so as to keep them on their toes and prepared for a giant attack, One of the sad traditions of the Goliath's that sprung up during this time though is the policy of exiling the old or weak so that if the giants had to take some of them it would be the old and weak that would slow the tribe down and not the whole of the tribe. Despite all this though many were still captured and enslaved many used as cheap and strong warriors to use against the foes of there giant captors and were prized especially during the invasion of the Quori since they could be equipped like a giant and trained like a giant but were more seen as more expendable. This lead to the enslaved Goalith's siding up with the elves in their rebellion fending of there former masters as heavy shock troops while the elves fought with guerrilla warfare as elves and Goalith's alike sought out the boats and such that would lead to their freedom. Those giants that had been slaves to the giants fled with the elves but instead migrated to Khorvaire due in part to the small size of Aerenal and to create a new homeland in an environment much more like what they were used to. Those that had remained free stayed on Xen'drik and to this day can still be found among it's highest peaks.
#25

doc_the_grey

Apr 17, 2009 12:49:24
also the dragons of Argonnessan had taken an interest in the goalith's belief in their birthmarks predicting the future of that individual. A Few dragons even go so far as thinking they could be more pieces of the prophecy with more then a few putting a lot of their time and resources into studying them looking to see if there is a connection