We picked up when 4E was released, and I expect we'll pick up when the artificer is released next month (hopefully!). Until the 4E Eberron book is released, I expect we'll keep getting peaks and valleys in activity.
We can only have so much conversation on material thats been released for some time, heh.
Well, ever since the determination that we, as a board, will not be split, it seems like we've sort of left it to wilt on the vine.
We have been. Word has come down from on high that they don't give a crap.
There are three, sometimes four, days worth of posts sitting on the front page, and I haven't seen many of the regulars around anymore. Have we lost our will?
In a way. Its become painfully clear that the bulk of the guests here love 4e, and want to do conversions and don't mind being spat on by Mike. The boards have become something that I for one no longer want to be a part of. I'm tired of fighting for something that no one else wants, or at least not enough of them.
Has the transition to 4e ruined our determination and drive and love of the game?
Of course not, my love for the game is as great as its ever been. Only what these boards are turning into is not the game I play, so I have little reason to come here any more. I don't like 4e. It has nothing to do with it being new, it just plain isn't the style of game I like to play. And since these boards are turning full on 4e, I have no reason to come here anymore.
Eberron was the only reason I didn't leave playing D&D altogether. And now that Eberron as I know it is basically dead, I have no reason to hang around any longer.
I still hang around the Rec Room though. I'm sure Mike will close that down too though, eventually.
Honestly the level of activity doesn't strike me as all that different.
Besides, believe it or not, this board is not the lifeblood of Eberron. I know at least three groups totalling about 15 people that know in y city that play Eberron, they have the Campaign setting and various splat books. My group and one of the other ones is converting to 4E the group of a dude I work with is sticking to 3e. You know what? I'm the only damn one that comes here. I talk about discussions here talk about things we discussed with Keith or Ari, and they nod and say 'thats cool,' and go on playing their game.
Most Eberron players could care less about these boards, they could be deleted tomorrow and they wouldn't know, wouldn't care and keep gaming.
We still have stuff coming down the pike for us, we have support in Dungeon and we'll have three more books next year. I hope that's not the end, but if it is? Doesn't matter. I know a group that still play 2nd edition Hollow World.
If you don't like the direction the game is headed, cool, vote with your wallet. Enjoy your savings, use that money for something that will bring you more enjoyment.
Of course not, my love for the game is as great as its ever been. Only what these boards are turning into is not the game I play, so I have little reason to come here any more. I don't like 4e. It has nothing to do with it being new, it just plain isn't the style of game I like to play. And since these boards are turning full on 4e, I have no reason to come here anymore.
Even when I agree with what Edymnion says, I generally try to make a counterpoint if for no other reason than to elaborate on his tendency for absolute statements.
But this time I have to agree completely. 4e, while it might be terrific for some people, is not D&D as I play it. When I converted from 2e to 3e, the game remained the same: new, better rules to do what I enjoyed doing. 4e doesn't seem that way. It seems like a new way to play a video game. I don't play video games...I play D&D.
Since the majority of the boards seems focused on converting everything under the sun, I'm going to be quiet. I'm not out to ruin anyone else's fun. I may yet pick up 4e and play, but it isn't the same game. Unless someone works some serious miracles (and Keith is the only one who I credit with miracles, so the burden is on him), I can't imagine a 4e Eberron.
The regulars are still here. I just don't think there has been a post worth responding to.
So my sails are up and I am coating around, docking occasionally on this board to see what new before drifting away once more
Even when I agree with what Edymnion says, I generally try to make a counterpoint if for no other reason than to elaborate on his tendency for absolute statements.
But this time I have to agree completely. 4e, while it might be terrific for some people, is not D&D as I play it. When I converted from 2e to 3e, the game remained the same: new, better rules to do what I enjoyed doing. 4e doesn't seem that way. It seems like a new way to play a video game. I don't play video games...I play D&D.
Since the majority of the boards seems focused on converting everything under the sun, I'm going to be quiet. I'm not out to ruin anyone else's fun. I may yet pick up 4e and play, but it isn't the same game. Unless someone works some serious miracles (and Keith is the only one who I credit with miracles, so the burden is on him), I can't imagine a 4e Eberron.
The regulars are still here. I just don't think there has been a post worth responding to.
Dang, I must be in Bizaaro world. I just came from the FR forum, where i saw a good number of people liking the system, desptie the months of outcry over the Spellplague changes. Now I come here to see the Eberron fans dissolute over 4ed and moaning over an edition change?
I always thought Eb fans were made of sterner steel...I love the Eberron folks because unlike other forum people **coughFRcough** they allow creative thoughts without negative "that cannot happen because canoncanoncanon" comments. The community here is really good about that. Only one or two of them may act like some of the die hard FR fans and most of them look like they are leaving so that is ok.
You can post your "I killed King so and so" thread and nobody will rag on you for it and tell you that it is impossible. This could be the best forum around.
We just need more EB articles.
Waiting a year for the books will be tough. With the help of Hellcow I talked my DM into running KOTS in EB. I will be running an EB campaign with 4E rules (love em!) by the end of the summer. It is an 11th level continuation of my old 3e game so I need time to learn many of the rules. Hopefully there are countless EB articles that can inspire me in the mean time. I am only getting DDI if I know I can get a ton of EB source material from it. Hope that happens.
Dang, I must be in Bizaaro world. I just came from the FR forum, where i saw a good number of people liking the system, desptie the months of outcry over the Spellplague changes. Now I come here to see the Eberron fans dissolute over 4ed and moaning over an edition change?
Well, I'm hesitant over the change, but not over any inherent bias but rather just unfamiliarity. I liked the flavor of 3.5, and since I haven't played 4e I have no idea if I'll like its flavor. Since I'm not active in a game, I'm not that curious about the intricacies of the new system and thus I only have flavor help to offer, and I'm really uninterested in questions about how to convert X to the new method.
Its become painfully clear that the bulk of the guests here love 4e, and want to do conversions...
My question, though, ties back to the original post.
Why is this the case?
Back in the day, there were quite a few posts that had NOTHING to do with mechanics. Discussions about the nature of the gods. Fleshing out nations. Posts about the goblin or Riedran languages. A post on the goblin language hasn't suddenly become irrelevant because of an edition change. Whether you're playing 3E or 4E, there's still goblins and they still have a language. Whatever you do with mechanics, the FLAVOR remains, and personally it's the flavor discussions that have always interested me. So if it is the case that the primary active threads are about 4E conversions... well, why is that the case? Are the people interested in 4E the only people with the energy to post? To me, that's the question raised by the OP - where are the interesting discussions of the past?
Now, the argument that there's been no new material for a while is a perfectly valid explanation for that - there's nothing new to spark the imagination. And not much to be done there; sure, there will be Dragon articles (I assume that SOMEDAY my Mordain article will finally be released, for example), but that's a small thing to sustain a board. On the other hand, in an ideal world, given the lack of OFFICIAL material, that's where the board is needed the most - to be a place where people can come and get inspiration and ideas from their fellow players and DMs. The question is whether 4E and 3E players can coexist and share the world, which is what I'd hope (I'll be playing both, personally)... or whether the division over crunch will destroy the shared bridge of flavor and history.
Anyhow, I'll certainly continue to watch, although I'm about to be internet-free for a few weeks. I enjoy hearing what people are doing with the world and helping if I can, so I hope that the boards will remain strong in days to come, even in this limited form.
PS:This is not a 4E bash, it is not a terrible system. I just dont like my options taken away, and I would rather spend hours making one NPC, than have to settle for an NPC that does not fit like I want just because I can make it in less than 30 minutes.
I don't like the condensed boards, and I find it less satisfying to post here.
Which, as I see it, is a perfectly clear and reasonable answer to OctaviusIII's original question.
PS:This is not a 4E bash, it is not a terrible system. I just dont like my options taken away, and I would rather spend hours making one NPC, than have to settle for an NPC that does not fit like I want just because I can make it in less than 30 minutes.
The problem is that many don't have the patience and will to work hours on NPCs, and LOVED that you can make the common NPC quickly.
And you can still, apparently, do a complex NPC as much.
And remmeber, this is the BEGINING of an edition, only the CORE THREE are out. Be fair. Also, many false or bad or wrong options that were useless were removed.
What gives many phoney options, finaly? or 'anything you want... but only black'?
Eberron was the only reason I didn't leave playing D&D altogether. And now that Eberron as I know it is basically dead, I have no reason to hang around any longer.
So you don't want to convert it to a classless system so you can have even more freedom than 3.5? I never get your arguments on this sticking point, since it seems to be, essentially, "I don't want to change." couched in, "I like more freedom." and yet you stuck with the decidedly not free 3rd edition of D&D (not free compared to other offerings out there). It sounds like what Eberron is to you is pretty much incapable of dying so long as you're playing in a system you like...so how is it basically dead? Is it because you're grumpy about having to put any form of effort into converting fluff into superior crunch, or is it because you're grumpy about new fluff appearing in crunch you won't buy? Because both, to me, have nothing to do with Eberron dying.
The problem is that many don't have the patience and will to work hours on NPCs, and LOVED that you can make the common NPC quickly.
And you can still, apparently, do a complex NPC as much.
And remmeber, this is the BEGINING of an edition, only the CORE THREE are out. Be fair. Also, many false or bad or wrong options that were useless were removed.
What gives many phoney options, finaly? or 'anything you want... but only black'?
I replied, but it did not post. I am to lazy to repost the entire thing, but you can't make a character is really good at X, and also good at Y because in 4th ed the characters have been intentionally designed to fill only certain roles.
The first post was much better than this one.
...you can't make a character is really good at X...
Personally, this is why I'M generally less interested in posting, here or in most other places... because every subject quickly devolves into a debate about 3E vs 4E. I'm not interested in debating 3E vs 4E. They're both fine systems. I'd like to hear people's ideas about Eberron.
This thread began with a solid, sensible question. People aren't posting on the board as often; why? Wraithstrike, you responded with a clear answer to this question: the condensed boards are unsatisfying. Then you said, "and not to slam on 4E, but here's why I don't like 4E." Ubbergeek says "And here's why you're wrong to dislike 4E." And you argue THAT point, and before you know it, we're going to have another page of people debating NPC creation.
Frankly, I have no interest in reading pages about people's opinions of the NPC creation system of 4E. This isn't the "What do you think of 4E" board - it's the last pure Eberron board on these forums. I know there's some people who hate 4E and some who love it. But it would be nice if we could have a FEW threads where we set those arguments aside and hold to the central topic. As I said in the previous post, Edymnion said that 4E was driving him away from these boards, and I asked why this had to be the case, since there's many subjects that are equally relevant to both editions. If the answer is because no one can discuss those topics without it turning into an argument about the systems, well, I'm begining to see his point.
I don't post on the Ebberon board much, but I tend to lurk here considerably, and I'm guessing that the lull the result of a) folks being busy and preocupied with the new rules themselves, and b) the fact that he have to wait a long time to see the 4th ed ECS, and thus have something to apply these shiny new rules to.
However, I don't see reason why discussion of fluff and flavour should be in a rut, and hope to see more such discussion in future.
Now I would personally love to start up a few of these threads once more, but I feel a bit intimidated by filling the shoes of the old regulars. They really gave you great answers and had well thought out opinions about the setting. But just to say it once more, I would love to be a part of many new "so how bout fluffy part nr 7" threads. And I hope that we can make it as simple as possible to join those threads.
I'm still a bit ignorant and think that summer is partly at fault here.
That's a good point, the summer may be largely to blame. Students have exams, adults have holidays or need to spend time with their kids, or just want to enjoy the good weather while it lasts. Over at Real Adventures (the pbp boards here) the summer lull is a well known phenomenon. We just have to continue as best we can, knowing things will pick up back to normal in a couple of months. I expect we're seeing a similar thing, at least in part, around here.
To give another possible answer to the original question, it's quite possible that people aren't posting much because of all the hassles the boards have been suffering lately. When every second attempt to browse a thread gives a database error or a message saying that the forums are down, why bother trying?
QFT. Recently it feels like you got a 50/50 shot of getting on these boards when they're actually working. Lack of new official material also doesn't help.
I think my fear now is simply that with everyone so gun-ho about 4e, it seems like any thread is going to take a turn into "how does what you're saying work with this aspect of the new edition?" Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly hope so. As I said before, I'm not against 4e. I hope that Eberron can remain something that can be discussed without turning to the mechanics, whatever the edition.
So, I'll try to shake off those concerns and continue on as normal. Hopefully, they're unfounded. Hopefully, there will be some questions that I can answer that have nothing to do with the rules. I'll give my two cents to anyone who wants to hear about the world. But I expect the same from others. Let others discuss conversions and mechanics; if you want my input, it had better be about the world itself.
I think my fear now is simply that with everyone so gun-ho about 4e, it seems like any thread is going to take a turn into "how does what you're saying work with this aspect of the new edition?"
I've got a thread here which should be guaranteed not to turn into one of those threads ;) We've got some interesting replies so far.
I'm going to run a 4e campaign this coming week, and to be honest I find the crunch discussions a bore. I'm not interested in converting the mechanics over (because 1) it isn't necessary as there are only a few things that need converting and so can easily be avoided and 2) I'm nowhere near confident to convert stuff or judge other people's conversions).
I just came back to D&D (thanks 4e) and I probably wouldn't have left if I could have played some Eberron.. I couldn't get a group where I was living, and I moved back home, met up with my old group, and we started playing 4e. So, naturally, I want to run an Eberron game.. however.. there's a lot that needs doing. There's a Kalashtar conversion thread, I posted my take, but two people have commented on it.. I don't mind doing stuff like that, but having some feedback would be really nice.
I'm hoping that with the Warforged and possibly next month the Artificer being articles on DDI, will help stir some things up. I know I'm not asking for everything to be converted, but it would be nice if we could get a few tidbits more. Even if we don't get the actual dragonmarks by house, at least give us ideas on how to make Aberrant dragonmarks if we so desire, and little things like that would go a long way.
Unfortunately, I see many people jumping the 3e ship to get on the 4e one, which since Eberron isn't coming out till next year sometime, many of us are left with the daunting task of not having any Eberron specific material (or even generic material such as psionics) for a very long time. This could cause many people to lose interest, or at the very least wont entice many new players just starting D&D to learn about Eberron.
I'll give my two cents to anyone who wants to hear about the world. But I expect the same from others. Let others discuss conversions and mechanics; if you want my input, it had better be about the world itself.
I'm actually going to be off-internet for a few weeks as of, well, now. So MY disappearance is because I am traveling and likely won't have net access. However, at a quick glance, I see a few active threads on the front page that aren't mechanics-related.
Well, I'm hesitant over the change, but not over any inherent bias but rather just unfamiliarity. I liked the flavor of 3.5, and since I haven't played 4e I have no idea if I'll like its flavor. Since I'm not active in a game, I'm not that curious about the intricacies of the new system and thus I only have flavor help to offer, and I'm really uninterested in questions about how to convert X to the new method.
You are the same as me. i real want to know how the flavor is becaues i have no one to play with so the fluff is were i live. THis is why i have stoped posting as much becaues people want to talk more about the system, and that cool and you need to know that but i just do not care at this time.
To be honest, as much as I can sympathise with grief over the new edition etc., I don't see how the new rules themselves affect ebberon itself that drastically. FR fans, at least, have had major overhaul on their setting to complain about. Thus 4th ed has left an arguably unpleasant mark on FR. With Ebberon, thus far I don't see such a mark. Its still the same setting, and just as recognizable as such under the new edition as under the old. Even if I hate the new rules when my books arrive, they will hardly kill my appreciation for and interest in the setting.
I don't post on the Ebberon board much, but I tend to lurk here considerably, and I'm guessing that the lull the result of a) folks being busy and preocupied with the new rules themselves, and b) the fact that he have to wait a long time to see the 4th ed ECS, and thus have something to apply these shiny new rules to.
However, I don't see reason why discussion of fluff and flavour should be in a rut, and hope to see more such discussion in future.
ok so i have to say that i am with hellcow because i do not want to see so many people talking about which setting is better but i know that people need to talk about it some itme but i do not think that every thread need to become. The reason why i add this quote is that the FR people who feel the need to say, basically, that Eberron have no right to talk about what they do not like because their setting is haveing the biggest change and eberron is not makes me think that they are #@$%. I understand that you have a bigger change and you do not like it, form what i understand from your post, but you have no right to say that the people can not talk about what is happening with this setting. In your eyes it might not be a lot but to the people that do not like thinks it is big. So if you are going to say that say it somewhere different.
We're going into a particularly long period of that. However once we get some Dungeon, or Dragon articles we can pick back up maybe.
3rd vs. 4th disagreements, which really shouldn't be taking place on the Eberron boards... still, its understandable that some people feel compelled to voice their opinions, especially after someone has voiced an opinion contrary to theirs.
However, forum duels aren't going to solve anything.
Condensation of the boards. Alright, I'm feeling this one, I liked the separate categories... I'd settle for a crunch and a fluff, but I much preferred our old style. I'm also getting that feeling of impotence, can't do a thing to change what will or won't happen.
Board instability. What the hell has been happening with the boards? *******. Nothing I can do here, either.
Lull in Eberron content. Yeah, its been a while and it will be a longer while until we get any Eberron books. Every book gave us not just mechanics to incorporate into Eberron, but a whole lot of world content. That content then jumps from the books to the boards, and is discussed and expanded upon. I'm not sure if the DDI articles are going to be the same... the Warforged article contained more crunch than new fluff. The Eberron conversion entry from Dungeon wasn't really too generous with the fluff either. I recall Dungeon Eberron adventures containing a good amount of fluff along with just the adventure. It was worth reading, even if you weren't going to run it.
Summer. For me, its a time to stay inside with the AC blasting. For others, it may be a time to go out and do other things, things that don't include keeping up with the boards. People can get busy in a time of relaxation. Its astounding how hectic and stress-filled a "vacation" can be.
Lack of any real advertising of Eberron. Alright, I might be wrong here, but as 4th edition gains new D&D players they tend to stick to the names they know. The core D&D setting (is it still Greyhawk?) and Forgotten Realms are the biggest ones. If they're coming back from 2nd edition they might even want some Planescape. But what they won't know about is Eberron. Eberron books aren't releasing until next year, but there are FR books coming in a few months. Hell, I know I'll be picking up a copy for the Swordblade, or whatever its called. I'm a sucker for Gish, and I'll be playing both 4th and 3.5 games. Probably Pathfinder when it releases officially.
So yeah, I think I've covered a significant number of the (major) reasons for lack of board traffic. This stuff has all been stated before I'm sure, but its my own take on it.
So you don't want to convert it to a classless system so you can have even more freedom than 3.5? I never get your arguments on this sticking point, since it seems to be, essentially, "I don't want to change." couched in, "I like more freedom." and yet you stuck with the decidedly not free 3rd edition of D&D (not free compared to other offerings out there).
Its called laziness. I knew the 3e system already, all of the material coming out for Eberron was using 3e, so it was easier to just keep using 3e for Eberron than converting it over to a better system.
Its called laziness. I knew the 3e system already, all of the material coming out for Eberron was using 3e, so it was easier to just keep using 3e for Eberron than converting it over to a better system.
This is the best reason why somebody won't switch to 4e EVAH! No BS,holier than thou remarks, just the truth. I respect the hell out of this response. Not that you care, but still. I love it.:D
Its called laziness. I knew the 3e system already, all of the material coming out for Eberron was using 3e, so it was easier to just keep using 3e for Eberron than converting it over to a better system.
I agree with Rauric. I can admire this response, as I admire most things you say on these boards. I'll miss you if you go, I'll say that much.
I agree with Rauric. I can admire this response, as I admire most things you say on these boards. I'll miss you if you go, I'll say that much.
And I can agree with davethebrave.
Its become painfully clear that the bulk of the guests here love 4e, and want to do conversions
4e is shiny and new, and there's very little official Eberron stuff yet. I myself am very interested in stating up Kalashtar for 4e, for example. On the other hand, I've never seen a post on how airships are laid out, as designing my own bugs me, and thats completely mechanics-neutral. But because a lot of the things people want to know about don't officially exist in 4e, they ask about them. Previously, if something didn't officially exist in 3.5, they asked about them, only because everyone was playing 3.5, no-one noticed. If you don't care for 4e, this is probably annoying, but will almost certainly die down over time, as 4e loses its mirror shine from being brand new.
Also, if anyone has some deck plans for airships, I'd love to see them ^^
Not meaning to pick on Edymnion here, but just thought it should be said.
Its called laziness. I knew the 3e system already, all of the material coming out for Eberron was using 3e, so it was easier to just keep using 3e for Eberron than converting it over to a better system.
This is a completely legitimate reason to stick with 3.5 IMHO.
4e is shiny and new, and there's very little official Eberron stuff yet. I myself am very interested in stating up Kalashtar for 4e, for example. On the other hand, I've never seen a post on how airships are laid out, as designing my own bugs me, and thats completely mechanics-neutral. But because a lot of the things people want to know about don't officially exist in 4e, they ask about them. Previously, if something didn't officially exist in 3.5, they asked about them, only because everyone was playing 3.5, no-one noticed. If you don't care for 4e, this is probably annoying, but will almost certainly die down over time, as 4e loses its mirror shine from being brand new.
Also, if anyone has some deck plans for airships, I'd love to see them ^^
House Lyrander Airship
That being said, I'm one of those people that loves 4e, and am trying to do some things, but with nobody seeming to look at them, it's hard.
Spellplague:1
4gotten Realms:0
18DELTA :embarrass
House Lyrander Airship
That being said, I'm one of those people that loves 4e, and am trying to do some things, but with nobody seeming to look at them, it's hard.
Thanks for the link, thats cool. Thing is, an 8 deck monstrosity isn't going to be the kind of thing ferrying passengers around Sharn, or produce/merchandise large distances, thats a cruise liner :P It would probably be too big even to use properly as a Xendrik party's base of operations which is the size I'm most interested in (but would be really good for a mission for the PCs Hmm, I might write that up now
). But its a good reference point, so thanks Thanks for the link, thats cool. Thing is, an 8 deck monstrosity isn't going to be the kind of thing ferrying passengers around Sharn, or produce/merchandise large distances, thats a cruise liner :P It would probably be too big even to use properly as a Xendrik party's base of operations which is the size I'm most interested in (but would be really good for a mission for the PCs Hmm, I might write that up now
No problem. Keep in mind though, that some of the 'decks' are really small, such as the crows nest and helm, so it really isn't all that large.