Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rauric Jun 05, 2008 5:50:44	I am trying to get my friend to run KOTS in Eberron. He says it will be tough because of the dragonmarks, missing classes, no psionic books. I told him hogwosh but he somehow thinks those things will cause him some trouble. The only reason I want him to run us in EB is for the settings flavor, like countries, how they deal with elves and goblins and things like that. I told him that you run a 4E EB game and have not problems with it. Please help me out since he may listen to you instead of myself. P.S. I plan on running an EB game after his KOTS. Basically I am picking my old 3E game back up and we are starting at 11th level. I feel a little intimidated with the new rules especially at high levels so my buddy is running us through KOTS as a primer. Idid tell him if I was running EB with not much 4E info he should be fine but he is a rules guy and good with numbers so he may it tough to run something wihtout all of the "official" resources available.
#2 herogoeth Jun 05, 2008 11:59:50	The Hellcow is likely busy at the moment with another upcoming novel and the ECS, so let me see if i can save him some time and give this a shot. If this were a long term campaign I'd put some serious and lengthy effort into the conversion, but as a modular adventure, and believing your cause to be a worthy one, let's see what I can come up with. KOTS plug and play Conversion to Eberron, Spoilers. Show Place Winterhaven on the eastern border of Breland, in the mountains that border Darguun. If you want to really ham up the Eberron flavor, make it New Cyre, and convert Lord Padrig to Prince Oargev (or someone standing in for him.) Make almost all of the Winterhaven Regulars Warforged, or Cyran Soldiers still clinging to the dream of Tomorrow in Cyre. Make the blacksmith a Cannith Magewright using a custom ritual that increases the hardness and durability (role-play quality) of his equipment. Change Orcus to The Keeper. Change the Shadowfell rift to a manifest zone to Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead.
#3 sigma34561 Jun 05, 2008 12:26:10	I'm sure that your friend is an amazing DM who's understanding of the rules exceeds all expectations, but the fact is that there is a lot of work that would go into converting eberron. WOTC will have several professional game designers working on it for months, with even more designers playtesting it for more months. There are a lot of tough decisions that go into converting something. It would be even more difficult if your friend really likes eberron, because the simplest conversion would involve a lot of ret-conning that maybe he feels would water down or change the flavor of the entire setting. Even as a player you would know that you do not have the freedom you used to in eberron because there are people and places that just dont even exsist in an imaginary sense. An example of how ret-conning detracts from flavor is the silver-flames relationship with lycanthropes. Lycanthropes no longer transmit lycanthropy to thier victims. They do carry a disease that drives people insane, but the reason they murdered so many was to prevent lycanthropy from spreading, which was a "disease of the soul" that actually made you evil. Now thier genocide was simply disease control. There is probably enough work that would go into converting eberron to justify simply creating his own campaign setting and waiting for the professionals to amaze us.
#4 fletch137 Jun 05, 2008 17:11:23	There is probably enough work that would go into converting eberron to justify simply creating his own campaign setting and waiting for the professionals to amaze us. Meh. Like Hero just showed, an Eberron "conversion" is as simple as adding in some flavor text. Eberron isn't all dragonmarks and artificers. Simple things like declairing someone an irreputable professor from Morgrave University or making the inn keeper a war widow of the Last War go miles to place an adventure in Eberron without adding one scrap of new rules. Mind you, I don't think you'll have that rich an experience if your DM has to be conned into it, but it's certainly doable.
#5 Hellcow Jun 05, 2008 18:06:51	As herogoeth has said, I am under the gun at the moment. However, I think that it is possible to play 4E Eberron immediately on release, and the proof is that I've been doing it for the last four months. It's a topic I've discussed in my livejournal, notably on March 3rd, 18th, and 20th, and I'll certainly be going into more specifics starting next week. Yes, there are things missing - no artificer, no racial feats for gnomes, etc - but it's certainly possible.
#6 rauric Jun 05, 2008 19:14:42	As herogoeth has said, I am under the gun at the moment. However, I think that it is possible to play 4E Eberron immediately on release, and the proof is that I've been doing it for the last four months. It's a topic I've discussed in my livejournal, notably on March 3rd, 18th, and 20th, and I'll certainly be going into more specifics starting next week. Yes, there are things missing - no artificer, no racial feats for gnomes, etc - but it's certainly possible. Haha Sigma! Told ya! Dude, we want to play ex-Aundair soldiers adventuring in KOTS. That is all. Heh. I hate generic adventures. Anyway HC said it was no problem so make it happen ;) .
#7 Hellcow Jun 05, 2008 19:55:21	An example of how ret-conning detracts from flavor is the silver-flames relationship with lycanthropes. Lycanthropes no longer transmit lycanthropy to thier victims. They do carry a disease that drives people insane, but the reason they murdered so many was to prevent lycanthropy from spreading, which was a "disease of the soul" that actually made you evil. Just to touch on this point, the purge has always been a special case, because it was based on the SPREAD of lycanthropy - and under 3.5 rules, an afflicted lycanthrope can't spread the affliction. This Dragonshard addresses this point... While no one knows how lycanthropy began, most know of the purge that almost brought it to an end. Around 800 YK, the power of the curse began to grow. The scholars of Aundair sought an answer in planar conjunctions or the influence of unknown fiends, while deep in the Eldeen Reaches shifter moonspeakers bemoaned the growing power of the unseen moon. Evil lycanthropes -- always the most numerous of the shapeshifters -- became even more vicious, and many good and neutral lycanthropes were corrupted and drawn down to the darkness. Afflicted lycanthropes gained the ability to pass the curse to their own victims, allowing lycanthropy to spread with terrifying speed. So, in 3.5, in the modern day natural lycanthropes can transmit and afflicteds cannot; but in the past, when the power of the curse grew, they could. Now things have just moved a notch. In the present day, there's no such thing as an afflicted lycanthrope; in the time of the Purge, there was, and both natural and afflicted could transfer (just like in the fiction of 3.5 Eberron). This will obviously be covered in more detail in the 4E books, but the fundamental history of the Silver Flame won't be rewritten. The Purge occured because lycanthropy changed; in 4E, it simply changed even more dramatically. Essentially, think of the werewolf's ability to transmit Moon Frenzy as a shadow of the old curse - and there is always the fear that this power will return.
#8 rauric Jun 06, 2008 6:25:27	After Sigma finishes KOTS for us I will restart my game I stopped at 11th level. It will now be set in 4E and I did a little hand waving to explain the changes. Some things will be glossed over until it is covered in the core books or DDI and some things I will make up stuff for. Sigma is a smarter guy than me and good with rules and numbers so that is why he is running the first adventure and campaign. I am actually ADD a bit when it comes to reading and running "canned" adventures. I will have some trouble with explaining dragonborn but I think I have tieflings and eladrin covered. Tieflings were born near contemerous planar areas and some come from an undiscovered island or the Demon Wastes. Eladrin come from Thelanis but are somehow native outsiders now. Let us just say it is all a work in progress. Anyway the adventure probably will not take us off the "rails" and we will all stay on "track". So I am sure he does not have to get into too much detail. I just want to say my party is from Aundair and we fought in the Last War. That is pretty much it. Just a "teeny" bit of flavor.:D
#9 sigma34561 Jun 06, 2008 12:49:55	grumble grumble Fine, I guess I have to run an eberron game now. You had better not make this a habit, getting Keith Baker to twist my arm every time I think about not playing eberron. Ok... so lets see. Retcon Spellcasting - Its always been this way. Dragonmarks.... Out of the players hands right now. They still have the same general powers though. There has been some sort of un-natural disaster that has caused most civilzed areas to become isolated. Probably a magical plague. Zilargo, Sarlona, The Eldeen Reaches, and many other places have completely closed thier borders. I'll fill in the rest when i have time.
#10 Hellcow Jun 06, 2008 17:54:31	Retcon Spellcasting... Dragonmarks.... There has been some sort of un-natural disaster that has caused most civilzed areas to become isolated... I'll be posting my thoughts on transition over the course of the next week on my livejournal.
#11 herogoeth Jun 07, 2008 9:22:17	The Eberron KoTS Conversion is great. I was picturing something much less in depth; only slightly adjusted to fit Eberron for flavor purposes. Sort of makes me sad that I have already played through it. Some of the conversions strike me as a little odd, but only slightly, and as a tour for new players, I really couldn't ask for more.
#12 rauric Jun 07, 2008 20:40:49	grumble grumble There has been some sort of un-natural disaster that has caused most civilzed areas to become isolated. Probably a magical plague. Zilargo, Sarlona, The Eldeen Reaches, and many other places have completely closed thier borders. I'll fill in the rest when i have time. I do not get this part. Is this due to 4es POL concept? I do not think a whole setting has to be POL if the core book says so. I am just hand waving some stuff in my game. Life and gaming is easier that way.
#13 snarky_monkey Jun 07, 2008 21:33:05	I agree with Rauric, sure the basic setting is PoL, but it's also a NEW setting. Eberron and others already have established fluff which I believe is still going to be kept. Heck, we're not even getting advanced in time, like FR. A fact I am still very happy about, by the way. I guess I am of the opinion that the great majority of fluff in Eberron need not be changed, just the mechanics. Everything is workable. As long as it's understood that compared to the core setting, Eberron is a high magic world, and then some.
#14 ChaoticGood Jun 07, 2008 21:49:17	Touching on the "points of light" problem, I've always seen Khorvaire as a fairly empty place to begin with. Sure, there are a lot large cities around southwest Karrnath and in Zilargo, and fairly regular rail stops across the length and breadth of Aundair and most of Breland. But look at the map of eastern Breland, Thrane, and the rest of the continent - there's a lot of empty space there. Going by the printed scale, towns of any size are few and far between over much of the continent, and many of those that exist beyond the reach of the lightning rail and Orien trade road network can hardly be said to be civilized or modern. So, personally I think Eberron already fits the concept of "points of light," with perhaps a few "clusters of light" thrown in for good measure.
#15 sigma34561 Jun 07, 2008 23:31:32	Well the "Plague" scenario helps me out in a few ways. It does crank up the Points of Light feel to the setting. It also adds a little more drama and story to things. Its a plot device I can work in whenever I want, and maybe even a focus for a few adventures. Most importantly though... it helps me to establish boundries for the players. If they know that sarlona, the eldeen reaches, and zilargo are all off limits because of quarantine, then I dont have to worry about gnomes, psionics, or druids! I do have to be careful with this device because it can quickly become overplayed, and I must certanly not use it to escape spur of the moment thinking. "I want to go to town hall and see if there are any records about who bought that building." - - - "Ummm, you can't, because its under quarantine. Yep, town hall is quarantined." That would be a disaster, especially with 4e's "Just Say Yes" attitude.
#16 rauric Jun 08, 2008 7:33:34	Khorvaire does not need that device to add the POL to some of it's areas. Some areas are probably already remote, just like some areas of Jersey are POL (AC, Pleasantville) and some are beacons of light (Linwood, Ocean City) this is the same in Khorvaire and EB in general. The majority of folks don't want to leave their homeland usually. Adventurers are a different sort but even they may not head to Zilargo because of the rumors about how the gnomes are (1984, Bigbrother) and many don't wish to go to Sarlona either because those Riderians seem to be very insular, robotic and creepy (add any cult you wish in here). There is no need for a plague (HI FR) to incorporate the POL feel into certain areas of EB. POL is theoretically already in areas of EB to begin with. Karnaath seems a very POL area just by its nature. The islands of Lazaar are very POL as well. Eldeen Reaches? C'mon, that place had POL all over it back in 3E. Basically pick an area of the 5 Nations that is close to some forest or mountain and *BAM* POL. Just my two coppers. If ya wish to copy FR and place a Plauge or other ESE (Eberron Shaking Event :P ) in there to explain the "new" POL concept then go for it. P.S None of our group will worry about Psionics or the rest until it comes out. We have enough new stuff to keep us happy until next year!:D
#17 sigma34561 Jun 08, 2008 11:38:21	Atlantic City and Pleasantville (atlantic city suburb) are NOT points of light. There is no way in dolurhh that I would be cought outside at night, lost, in either of those places.
#18 rauric Jun 08, 2008 13:10:53	Screwed that up. I meant OC and Linwood were the POL areas among the other crappy communities.
#19 sigma34561 Jun 09, 2008 1:32:15	Enough of this discussion on Southern New Jersey's socioecnomics. Techincally all settings are PoL based because there are towns with dangerous area's between them. The PoL that fourth edition is trying to bring out is that each community is on its own. There is nobody coming to save them if something bad happens. In a setting with established kingdoms, long distance communication at a reasonable price, and even teleportation for sale, everything isn't as far away as it seems.
#20 rauric Jun 09, 2008 12:43:25	Enough of this discussion on Southern New Jersey's socioecnomics. Techincally all settings are PoL based because there are towns with dangerous area's between them. The PoL that fourth edition is trying to bring out is that each community is on its own. There is nobody coming to save them if something bad happens. In a setting with established kingdoms, long distance communication at a reasonable price, and even teleportation for sale, everything isn't as far away as it seems. So the POL concept in the main Core book does not fit into every part of Eberron. That is fine and in my opinion nothing needs to be reworked to fit POL into every city or country. Eberrom never needed the POL remake that FR did since it was still fresh and new and the concept was that there are not many high level PC-like heros running around, lots of bad guys though. Since there are not a ton of heros running around even if a local town gets a sending out for help they may still be SOL. POL does not need to be shoehorned into any of Eberron IMO.
#21 steerpike7 Jun 09, 2008 14:42:34	I second the idea that PoL doesn't work well in Eberron and I think it would be a mistake to try to remake Eberron in the PoL mold. It's not like you HAVE to adopt PoL with 4E. It works for some settings and not for others. My opinion is that it works very poorly for Eberron. That's fine. Good even. The setting would be destroyed if you really tried to turn it into PoL.
#22 Kensan_Oni Jun 10, 2008 2:29:51	I personally always thought that with monster nations, Elvish Barbarians, Halfing Nomads, and Civilized Nations against the greater darks all around, that Eberron effectively WAS a PoL campaign to begin with, just a well developed one with the pulp fiction feel. I mean, the concept for Eberron has always been a few points of good standing agaisnt the tides of darkness. I don't see that changing at all with 4E.