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Help for an Exploration Campaign

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wulfgars
Mar 21, 2011 10:00:10 Hi.
I´m starting a new campaign in which the party has a great deal of exploration in the jungle  (xendrik).
I want to make them feel the difficulty of walking thru unexplored territory ( they don´t have any maps, guide ,etc) and to do that , I thought of making each day almost like a skill challenge. The problem is , that this will rapidly get monotonous , with them repeating the same rolls over and over again.....
I was thinking of developing a kind of chart , with days , and each day I would roll to see if they found something ( ruins , encounters , villages , etc) , and depending in which day the found sometinhg , they would get the penalties of the chart.
The problem is , i want to make it at the same time , as close to a Skill challenge as i could ( because if they really rolled skills on that day they would get penalties or not) , with each day they spent exploring giving them penalties , or not .
I was thinking of them losing a healing surge for each day they were in the jungle , and assuming foraging for each 4 days , they would get something like :
Day 1 : -1 HSurge
Day 2 : -2 HSurge and somekind of mild condition
Day 3 : -3 HSurge
Day 4 : recuperate all HSurges
Day 5 : -1 HSurge
.....
.....

Any ideias from anyone!? Anyone tried this before?!

Thanx in advance

#2
Ogiwan
Mar 21, 2011 17:00:33 Hmm. Well, truth be told, I never got the idea behind multi-day skill challenges. I mean, if you don't do well, you lose a healing surge....but...when you go to sleep, you regain the healing surge. Or is sleeping in a multi-day skill challenge really a special kind of rest that restores daily powers, but doesn't restore healing surges?

One idea could be that after a certain number of successes (or failures), they find a safe spot. If successful, it really is safe; if unsuccessful, they have to clear it. But, hopefully one of the more creative folk will pop in.
#3
wargoose
Mar 24, 2011 8:48:22
Hi.
I´m starting a new campaign in which the party has a great deal of exploration in the jungle  (xendrik).
I want to make them feel the difficulty of walking thru unexplored territory ( they don´t have any maps, guide ,etc) and to do that , I thought of making each day almost like a skill challenge. The problem is , that this will rapidly get monotonous , with them repeating the same rolls over and over again.....
I was thinking of developing a kind of chart , with days , and each day I would roll to see if they found something ( ruins , encounters , villages , etc) , and depending in which day the found sometinhg , they would get the penalties of the chart.
The problem is , i want to make it at the same time , as close to a Skill challenge as i could ( because if they really rolled skills on that day they would get penalties or not) , with each day they spent exploring giving them penalties , or not .
I was thinking of them losing a healing surge for each day they were in the jungle , and assuming foraging for each 4 days , they would get something like :
Day 1 : -1 HSurge
Day 2 : -2 HSurge and somekind of mild condition
Day 3 : -3 HSurge
Day 4 : recuperate all HSurges
Day 5 : -1 HSurge
.....
.....

Any ideias from anyone!? Anyone tried this before?!

Thanx in advance

I use a skill challenge on the days that my adventurers spend traveling in the wilderness. By wilderness, I mean days that they are not on trade route roads, towns, or other sort of civilization. Mine is currently based on Khorvaire so sometimes I dont even need it. Basically, its a simple skill challenge that i run at level one, but back the XP down to 50 (so each PC gets 10 for each day). I only run it on days that they spend all day in the wilderness. If they reach a level of civilization during that day then I dont run it, So I only run it once on a three day. I try to may it sybolize isolation, and true backcountry experience.

For example:
Naure: orienteering
Nature: animal handling (if the PCs have animals)
Endurance: I use the 4e rules on travel, but I make a few mods. Like one endurance check for the 8 hours in the wilderness, then an endurance check for each hour spend traveling in addition on a given day. They lose a surge for failures, but I also roll on a random chart that has illnesses. That way they can contract an illness that may end up impacting the trip in some way.
Stealth: try to travel without attracting attention.

There area a couple others too. One of the biggest things I did was make random charts for failures. If they failed orienteering, then they had a chance of getting lost. They might run into a encounter that they were trying to avoid (like wondering into drow territory). If they fail animal handleing, then one of the naimals may run off, causing them valuable time. Or the animal might become slowed (slowing the group). You get the idea. I would also add modifiers to the number that stacked each day. If they didn't use food for the day, then they took a -1 to their endurance checks that day. If no food the next, then it was a -2 and so forth.

I was really trying to just create a way to add a little realism into the travel segments and at the same time, make the PCs think of the bigger picture, not just focused on the prize.   How this helps a little bit.
#4
Madfox11
Mar 25, 2011 4:18:41
Hmm. Well, truth be told, I never got the idea behind multi-day skill challenges. I mean, if you don't do well, you lose a healing surge....but...when you go to sleep, you regain the healing surge. Or is sleeping in a multi-day skill challenge really a special kind of rest that restores daily powers, but doesn't restore healing surges? One idea could be that after a certain number of successes (or failures), they find a safe spot. If successful, it really is safe; if unsuccessful, they have to clear it. But, hopefully one of the more creative folk will pop in.

It depends on your interpretation about the circumstances in which you can take an extended rest. I know I have been contemplating changing them, especially for those campaigns were I want to avoid dungeon crawls anyway. The assumption with multiple-day skill challenges were failures lead to the loss of healing surges is that you cannot have an effective extended rest. Personally I agree with you and I find these kind of challenges weak. It could also be about long-term exhaustion, but I have difficulties believing a track through the jungle is somehow more tiring than a couple of hours of exploring a dungeon and fighting nasty monsters ;)

When designing a skill challenge it is a good idea to think about the goal and determine the concequences of failing to achieve that goal. I take it the PCs are exploring the jungle to find something? In that case, check how much food and clear water the PCs are carrying, and let successes determine how much time it takes to get at a specific location. Failure means food is running out, and there are simple rules how to deal with the lack of food and water and how to acquire those. Failures could also land the PCs in the middle of dangerous drow/giant territory, but in that case you should be willing to create a bit of a side track since single random encounters do not work very well in 4E either. You can also create specific scenes for special obstacles such as a crossing a canyon, dealing with a band of Tharask explorers who think the PCs are competition and suffering a raging storm.

To be honest, the last time I ran a wilderness exploration skill challenge, surviving the environment was hardly the challenge. There is always at least one PC in a group with maxed out Nature skill, so surviving the environment is a given (not to mention that with a bag of holding a lot of food can be taken along). The challenge was that the place was inhabited by extremely hostile locals and the goal was to remain unseen. To the PCs' horror, they soon learned a band of goblins had triggered the border guard defenses, making life for PCs all the harder. I used a couple of environmental scenes to highlight they were in a wilderness, but overcoming those obstacles was not really the point. It was how they would do so. Would they leave any tracks (eg making a makeshift bridge to cross the raging stream)? How fast (travel around the cliff or climb down)? And so on. Such scenes bring home to the players they are in a savage jungle, but avoid the whole extended rest problem.
#5
jhanzur
Apr 11, 2011 6:08:19 Using a skill challenge that lasts several days is your best bet. As long as it's interspersed with other encounters, it will work fine. Healing surges lost in this manner cannot be regained by normal extended rest. They must be recovered by resting in some type of dwelling.(likely accompanied by a heal check). This has the effect of showing that the jungle is tough, but not equally tough on everyone, someone skilled in Endurance will always last longer than someone of the same caliber who isn't.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wulfgars Mar 21, 2011 10:00:10	Hi. I´m starting a new campaign in which the party has a great deal of exploration in the jungle (xendrik). I want to make them feel the difficulty of walking thru unexplored territory ( they don´t have any maps, guide ,etc) and to do that , I thought of making each day almost like a skill challenge. The problem is , that this will rapidly get monotonous , with them repeating the same rolls over and over again..... I was thinking of developing a kind of chart , with days , and each day I would roll to see if they found something ( ruins , encounters , villages , etc) , and depending in which day the found sometinhg , they would get the penalties of the chart. The problem is , i want to make it at the same time , as close to a Skill challenge as i could ( because if they really rolled skills on that day they would get penalties or not) , with each day they spent exploring giving them penalties , or not . I was thinking of them losing a healing surge for each day they were in the jungle , and assuming foraging for each 4 days , they would get something like : Day 1 : -1 HSurge Day 2 : -2 HSurge and somekind of mild condition Day 3 : -3 HSurge Day 4 : recuperate all HSurges Day 5 : -1 HSurge ..... ..... Any ideias from anyone!? Anyone tried this before?! Thanx in advance
#2 Ogiwan Mar 21, 2011 17:00:33	Hmm. Well, truth be told, I never got the idea behind multi-day skill challenges. I mean, if you don't do well, you lose a healing surge....but...when you go to sleep, you regain the healing surge. Or is sleeping in a multi-day skill challenge really a special kind of rest that restores daily powers, but doesn't restore healing surges? One idea could be that after a certain number of successes (or failures), they find a safe spot. If successful, it really is safe; if unsuccessful, they have to clear it. But, hopefully one of the more creative folk will pop in.
#3 wargoose Mar 24, 2011 8:48:22	Hi. I´m starting a new campaign in which the party has a great deal of exploration in the jungle (xendrik). I want to make them feel the difficulty of walking thru unexplored territory ( they don´t have any maps, guide ,etc) and to do that , I thought of making each day almost like a skill challenge. The problem is , that this will rapidly get monotonous , with them repeating the same rolls over and over again..... I was thinking of developing a kind of chart , with days , and each day I would roll to see if they found something ( ruins , encounters , villages , etc) , and depending in which day the found sometinhg , they would get the penalties of the chart. The problem is , i want to make it at the same time , as close to a Skill challenge as i could ( because if they really rolled skills on that day they would get penalties or not) , with each day they spent exploring giving them penalties , or not . I was thinking of them losing a healing surge for each day they were in the jungle , and assuming foraging for each 4 days , they would get something like : Day 1 : -1 HSurge Day 2 : -2 HSurge and somekind of mild condition Day 3 : -3 HSurge Day 4 : recuperate all HSurges Day 5 : -1 HSurge ..... ..... Any ideias from anyone!? Anyone tried this before?! Thanx in advance I use a skill challenge on the days that my adventurers spend traveling in the wilderness. By wilderness, I mean days that they are not on trade route roads, towns, or other sort of civilization. Mine is currently based on Khorvaire so sometimes I dont even need it. Basically, its a simple skill challenge that i run at level one, but back the XP down to 50 (so each PC gets 10 for each day). I only run it on days that they spend all day in the wilderness. If they reach a level of civilization during that day then I dont run it, So I only run it once on a three day. I try to may it sybolize isolation, and true backcountry experience. For example: Naure: orienteering Nature: animal handling (if the PCs have animals) Endurance: I use the 4e rules on travel, but I make a few mods. Like one endurance check for the 8 hours in the wilderness, then an endurance check for each hour spend traveling in addition on a given day. They lose a surge for failures, but I also roll on a random chart that has illnesses. That way they can contract an illness that may end up impacting the trip in some way. Stealth: try to travel without attracting attention. There area a couple others too. One of the biggest things I did was make random charts for failures. If they failed orienteering, then they had a chance of getting lost. They might run into a encounter that they were trying to avoid (like wondering into drow territory). If they fail animal handleing, then one of the naimals may run off, causing them valuable time. Or the animal might become slowed (slowing the group). You get the idea. I would also add modifiers to the number that stacked each day. If they didn't use food for the day, then they took a -1 to their endurance checks that day. If no food the next, then it was a -2 and so forth. I was really trying to just create a way to add a little realism into the travel segments and at the same time, make the PCs think of the bigger picture, not just focused on the prize. How this helps a little bit.
#4 Madfox11 Mar 25, 2011 4:18:41	Hmm. Well, truth be told, I never got the idea behind multi-day skill challenges. I mean, if you don't do well, you lose a healing surge....but...when you go to sleep, you regain the healing surge. Or is sleeping in a multi-day skill challenge really a special kind of rest that restores daily powers, but doesn't restore healing surges? One idea could be that after a certain number of successes (or failures), they find a safe spot. If successful, it really is safe; if unsuccessful, they have to clear it. But, hopefully one of the more creative folk will pop in. It depends on your interpretation about the circumstances in which you can take an extended rest. I know I have been contemplating changing them, especially for those campaigns were I want to avoid dungeon crawls anyway. The assumption with multiple-day skill challenges were failures lead to the loss of healing surges is that you cannot have an effective extended rest. Personally I agree with you and I find these kind of challenges weak. It could also be about long-term exhaustion, but I have difficulties believing a track through the jungle is somehow more tiring than a couple of hours of exploring a dungeon and fighting nasty monsters ;) When designing a skill challenge it is a good idea to think about the goal and determine the concequences of failing to achieve that goal. I take it the PCs are exploring the jungle to find something? In that case, check how much food and clear water the PCs are carrying, and let successes determine how much time it takes to get at a specific location. Failure means food is running out, and there are simple rules how to deal with the lack of food and water and how to acquire those. Failures could also land the PCs in the middle of dangerous drow/giant territory, but in that case you should be willing to create a bit of a side track since single random encounters do not work very well in 4E either. You can also create specific scenes for special obstacles such as a crossing a canyon, dealing with a band of Tharask explorers who think the PCs are competition and suffering a raging storm. To be honest, the last time I ran a wilderness exploration skill challenge, surviving the environment was hardly the challenge. There is always at least one PC in a group with maxed out Nature skill, so surviving the environment is a given (not to mention that with a bag of holding a lot of food can be taken along). The challenge was that the place was inhabited by extremely hostile locals and the goal was to remain unseen. To the PCs' horror, they soon learned a band of goblins had triggered the border guard defenses, making life for PCs all the harder. I used a couple of environmental scenes to highlight they were in a wilderness, but overcoming those obstacles was not really the point. It was how they would do so. Would they leave any tracks (eg making a makeshift bridge to cross the raging stream)? How fast (travel around the cliff or climb down)? And so on. Such scenes bring home to the players they are in a savage jungle, but avoid the whole extended rest problem.
#5 jhanzur Apr 11, 2011 6:08:19	Using a skill challenge that lasts several days is your best bet. As long as it's interspersed with other encounters, it will work fine. Healing surges lost in this manner cannot be regained by normal extended rest. They must be recovered by resting in some type of dwelling.(likely accompanied by a heal check). This has the effect of showing that the jungle is tough, but not equally tough on everyone, someone skilled in Endurance will always last longer than someone of the same caliber who isn't.