Help for Lyrander Warlord/Cleric build

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

SteelMirror

Jun 23, 2009 13:49:09
I'm finally about to start playing in an Eberron campaign! It's always been my favorite setting, and I'm really looking forward to it. I have a character in mind, and would appreciate any feedback you all could give me about the mechanics, backstory and everything else!

Caleb d'Lyrander
Half elf Hybrid Cleric/Warlord
Str
16
Con 15
Dex 8
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 16

AC: 16
Fort 14; Ref 10; Will 14

Feat: Scale armor prof.
Equipment: Scale armor, Halberd
At-wills: Righteous brand, Wolf-pack tactics
Encounters: Eldritch strike (racial), Healing word, Inspiring word, Healing strike
Daily: Lead by example

Future feat purchases: Mark of Storm (2)
Plate armor prof (4)
Wpn expertise: halberd (6)
Wpn focus: halberd (8)
? (10)
Polearm gamble (12)
Dilettante (14)

At the beginning, Caleb will play a straightforward front-rank leader. His moderate AC and lowish HP make him somewhat delicate in melee, but his reach weapon makes up for it and allows him to strike from behind the party defender if necessary. His at wills are both so powerful that I anticipate that he will be an above average melee leader, with positioning, healing, and party bonuses all built right in.

At later levels (after the mark of storm and a lightning weapon) he really comes into his own, as he gains the ability to slide enemies around at will. When combined with polearm gamble and Eldritch strike in paragon, Caleb will be a decent polearm fighter as well, with the ability to keep an enemy at bay long enough to allow his party members to come to his aid. When he picks up the Lyrander PP, he will gain controller-abilities, allowing him to fill any party role part-time except for striker! He should end up being versatile in a good way, with a lot of powerful options in many categories that still manage to not dilute his power into meaninglessness. PEACH!

Character Background, Wall of text!
Caleb was born into the powerful Lyrander family on the island of Stormhome, and was given the best education and training that money could buy. As a child he was gifted in some areas and deficient in others, much as any child his age. If there was anything unusual in his early years it was that he always preferred to have his feat planted firmly on the ground rather than sailing the skies, unlike his airy kin.

When he came of age Caleb manifested a mark, but it worked sporadically and never seemed to respond to his will. The wind didn't answer his call. Storms would not bow to his demands, and elementals bound to the house's airships seemed to take a fiendish delight in misunderstanding or even ignoring his commands. It quickly became apparent that, despite his mark, Caleb was unsuited to a life in the house's guilds.

Undaunted, Caleb resumed his martial discipline and found himself favoring the polearm, an atypical choice for a scion of the mark of storm. As a marked individual he still had great status within his house (even if other stormbearers sometimes snickered behind his back), and he soon drew the duty to guard depots in Aundair processing soarwood shipments on their way to Stormhome.

He proved himself extremely capable at this job, and was assigned more vital duties that required both a trusted member of the house and a capable soldier and leader. It was in this vein that he found himself in command of a mixed unit protecting the Aundair valley of Clearwater, near the Karrnathi border. The valley's steep walls were known for containing small quantities of Eberron shards, which House Lyrander mined under contract, and the supply of which was threatened by the shifting front-line.

Unfortunately, the valley was also a key terrain feature standing between a batallion of Karrnathi soldiers and the rear of Aundair's defensive line. Scouts noticed the batallion moving towards the valley, and Caleb was ordered to send his warforged regiment to block the valley's entrance. This would have effectively sacrificed the lives of the entire regiment (then considered property, not sentient beings) to buy the Aundairians a day or two to re-orient their defenses. Caleb despised the order, but could not find a way to deny it's necessity.

Retiring to his tent, Caleb prayed to the Sovereign Host to forgive his actions, when he was hit by a stroke of insight. To this day he attributes that moment of clarity to divine inspiration, and has lived every moment since by honoring the gods and their laws. He had a plan.

Over the course of the next 24 hours he forced an evacuation of the entire valley, telling the residents that the Karnathi forces would take no prisoners. He situated the warforged regiment within the valley proper, to draw in the enemy, and waited.

Dawn came. Dust clouds were spotted along the road approaching te valley, then vast columns of soldiers and war machines. Karrnathi scouts were apprehended by Caleb's men and interrogated. The enemy forces were larger than expected, the odds almost 15 to 1 against the defenders. Caleb smiled.

As the enemy entered the valley, Caleb ordered the warforged to strike hard and fast, then withdraw to lure the army in. It worked perfectly. Once the majority of the force had entered the valley, Caleb turned to give the order to blow up the damn at the head of the valley. After the long rainy season the reservoir was full, ready to rush through the valley. The wall of water would surge through, killing anything that breathed but hopefully leaving the magical warforged with their lives. They would rather take their chances with the water, Caleb knew, than the thousands of enemy soldiers bearing down on their positions. Any surviving Karrnathi undead would be scattered downstream and could be cleaned up later.

Moments before he could give the order, a final messager flitted toward him with dire news. A hamlet within the valley had refused to evacuate; men women and children there had decided to protect their ancestral homes and farms to the last. Almost 400 civilians were trapped firmly between the enemy army and the rigged dam, and there was no time to evacuate them. In less than an hour the army would begin to pass out of the valley and the moment would be lost.

Caleb gave the order. The dam burst forth and water surged through the valley. The enemy army was devastated and the survivors retreated in confusion. Aundair was safe. Many of the warforged from the valley were recovered and repaired, though many were not. All of Caleb's men lived to tell the tale, and tell it they did.

3 months later House Lyrander was served with a subpoena demanding that Caleb be extradited for prosecution as a war criminal, to appease public demands. The house directors met in great consternation, and at the end of it handed down their decision. Caleb was to be expunged from the records and turned out as an excoriate. Sine he was no longer a member of the house, Lyrander had no authority to hand him over to Aundair, where he would certainly have been executed.

Today Caleb is still a wanted war criminal in Aundair, and remains outside of its borders. People from around the five nations may have heard of the Butcher of Clearwater, the tale of which has been somewhat distorted over the years. He is banned from receiving assistance from Lyrander or any of its affiliates and members, but within the house is quietly acknowledged. He did, after all, accomplish his mission: House Lyrander still mines the slopes of Clearwater for Eberron shards.

He now leads a mercenary group known as the Clearwater Knights in Sharn. Privately he wrestles with his conscience. He killed many innocents that day, but certainly saved many more that would have perished in a protracted Karrnathi siege. Was it wrong? Is there really such a thing as "wrong"? Would he do it again if he had to? And if yes, does that make him a monster?
#2

SteelMirror

Jun 25, 2009 14:58:15
I suppose the no-comment thing is what I get for posting an impenetrable wall of text. How about the mechanics? Anybody have any suggestions for alternatives for a warleader scion of Lyrander?
#3

tallric_kruush

Jun 25, 2009 15:03:19
First, you should change Lyrander to Lyrandar. :P

Good natured ribbing aside, I'm about to dive into your "wall of text". After that, I'll check out the crunch.

If you're looking for a mechanical critique, you should post this on the CharOps forum. A few there can be a bit overly blunt at times, so brace yourself for the possibility of "OMG, why the heck did you pick ? That's the lamest feat you could've chosen." If you can handle that, though, they are the most knowledgeable group to be found anywhere when it comes to mechanics.

EDIT: I read the wall of text. I like that I don't find myself much liking his decision. I'm not sure what I would've done in his shoes, but drowning an army to save the few probably wouldn't have been my choice. The fact that I have to think about it means you've come up with a good backstory. ;)
#4

ChrisTheS

Jun 25, 2009 15:17:36
Main thing I notice is that if you're an excoriate, you should only have one name. Excoriates are no longer considered part of the family, and even referring to themselves by the name is considered a form of false representation, to which the Houses have the legal right and obligation to respond.

Also, you start by making a big deal about how the mark doesn't work, but then treat it exactly as if you'd never manifested one at all. Even a malfunctioning mark should have tremendous significance, perhaps even more so than a proper one (I don't know how you plan to develop the character, but I would definitely emphasize that action either in background or in play).
#5

tallric_kruush

Jun 25, 2009 19:46:13
ChristheS makes some good points. You have a good backstory in place, now you just have to streamline and tighten it up, a bit.
#6

SteelMirror

Jun 25, 2009 22:02:43
Good point on the excoriate thing, I didn't remember that bit. Name changed.

I'm not sure how the malfunctioning mark should have more significance, as Caleb tried and washed out of the house guilds before settling on a non-mark involved career. As far as my concept for the mark goes, I'm assuming that (pure game statistics aside) different manifesters of the mark have differing amounts of control over its powers (this is especially true of NPC mark bearers, assuming that we want all of the marks to behave consistently with the way they were fluffed in 3.5). So in his house Caleb wasn't considered some abomination because of his incomplete mastery of his mark's powers, he was just regarded as someone who was bad at that particular skill.

Does this address your question?
#7

ChrisTheS

Jun 26, 2009 9:16:07
Not quite. You don't give any indication of how the malfunction of the dragonmark is impacting the character's personality. And it should be doing so - while not manifesting a mark at all is not a cause for shame (except if you've got easily disappointed parents), a mark that doesn't work, and occasionally does the opposite of what you want it to, should be deeply worrying to the House. If anything, it should make their decision to cast you out easier (as at that point you'd be a disgrace to the House instead of just an embarrassment), and consider not handing you over to the law to be ample repayment for the 'favor' you did them.
#8

AvonRekaes

Jun 26, 2009 11:06:56
This is true. Not having a dragonmark doesn't particularly mean you'll never get anywhere in the house. If you don't mind going back an edition for an example, there was the Favored in the House feat, which could be substituted for a Dragonmark in meeting prerequisites for some House-specific game material like prestige classes.
In other words, if you want him to be influential in House Lyrandar but not have a functional mark, he doesn't need a mark at all. He was just a very competent commander and gained respect that way.
#9

SteelMirror

Jun 26, 2009 17:02:15
Ah, I see. It's a difference in interpretation. First of all: I want to get the mark feat, but am not purchasing it until 2nd level. To rationalize this I am simply fluffing his backstory as he has always had it, but won't be particularly good at controling it (read: no mechanical benefit) until 2nd lv.

Again, my understanding (personal take) on dragonmarks as a whole is that, regardless of the way they are handled for PCs, different people who manifest marks have different amounts of control and draw different powers from them. An commmon magewright with the mark of making doesn't get nearly the benefit that a prodigy artificer rising quickly through the house's ranks might get. It varies from person to person, and my PC just happened to get the short end of the stick on that one. As you say, that didn't end his prospects within the house, it just changed what path his career would have to take to reach full fruition (banishment notwithstanding).

Does that make more sense?
#10

ChrisTheS

Jun 26, 2009 19:46:51
Oh, it makes perfect sense... it just isn't the question I was asking. What's the character's attitude towards his own House? Does he feel cheated by fate, for taking what should be a blessing and turning it into a curse? Or is he indifferent to the bad hand that he's been dealt (in which case I would argue that he's actually in denial, but that's not for me to say)?

In short, the 'malfunctioning' dragonmark (even if it starts functioning normally later) should be as much of a defining aspect of the character's personality as the blood on his hands, because war criminals are ten to a crown, but unpredictable dragonmarks are unbelievably rare.
#11

AvonRekaes

Jun 26, 2009 20:57:48
Well, I think he's saying that in his mind "unpredictable dragonmarks" aren't rare. In his mind, rather, lots of dragonmarked NPCs can't command their mark with any real proficiency. If that's how his group as a whole sees them, then there's no real issue.

However, you do bring up a good point for SteelMirror to think about.

Steel, you mention that he wrestles with his decision everday, but how does he feel about the House's decision? Does he understand that the excoriation was their way of protecting him? Does he hate them for it anyway? It's an interesting aspect of a character, being excoriated. You could develope a lot of personality thinking about it.

Also, Steel, dragonmarks can manifest after the Test of Siberys and often in times of stress. The weight of enduring your excoriation could cause a brand-new mark to manifest on a 2nd level character without being weird. I imagine it'd also make House Lyrandar regret their decision to excoriate you. Or it could be the impetuous for you to try and get your excoriation reversed.
#12

SteelMirror

Jun 26, 2009 22:28:04
Oh, good! I think I understand you better now. The weak mark was certainly quite a let-down for Caleb, but rather than wallow in self-loathing about it he chose to move on, work hard, and earn success in another career. If anything, the repressed inferiority complex made him work even harder, to prove to himself that his lack of ability with the mark did not reflect any character defect in himself.

That philosophy has carried over to his exile from the house, which he sees through much the same lens. Rather than lament it or cry about the family he's lost, Caleb looks to working hard to find a new place for himself. In a way this is good, because he needs to have at least the illusion to himself that he is moving forward, away from the memory of Clearwater. So part of his new life is really him running away from his old, and part of him is all too happy to leave Lyrandar behind.
#13

AvonRekaes

Jun 26, 2009 22:53:59
Away from the memory of Clearwater? And he names his mercenary company after it? Sounds like someone's in denile.

:P
#14

ChrisTheS

Jun 27, 2009 10:18:33
That's what I was looking for. You've got a good character there I hope he turns out to be fun.
#15

tallric_kruush

Jun 27, 2009 10:24:47
Away from the memory of Clearwater? And he names his mercenary company after it? Sounds like someone's in denile.

:P

This calls to mind the subtlety Mal Reynolds' Serenity. Law enforcement will never suspect the connection. :P

Honestly, I'd probably rename the Knights of Clearwater, if your PC's serious about avoiding attention/arrest/execution. The events you described at Clearwater are the type of thing that would resonate. Anyone who reads the Korranberg Chronicle has at least some chance of suspecting a connection.
#16

SteelMirror

Jun 28, 2009 22:13:32
True I could rename the company, and equally true that it sounds a lot like Malcolm Reynolds in Serenity . . . I must've copied it without realizing!

What I'm thinking, with regards to the name, is that in Sharn Caleb is not a wanted war criminal. It happened in Aundair, as far as Breland is concerned it's a foreign matter and foreign warrants hold no force of law in Breland. True, readers of the Chronicle might recognize his name and many might despise him for it. He sees this as his just desserts, righteous punishment for the fact that he is, in fact, responsible for those deaths. The fact that most people don't know the full story is irrelevant to him. So long as it isn't actually illegal, Caleb will keep the name.

Besides, it gives him some room to maneuver when people assume he is more ruthless than he actually is. Again, much like Malcolm Reynolds.
#17

rauric

Jun 28, 2009 23:59:55
You might be hating life during combat. Why? You have a 16 str and no reflex. I would at least take an 18 str, lower con, add to dex a bit. If you wish to forsake your defenses for roleplaying that is fine, just focus on your "to hit" ability.
#18

SteelMirror

Jun 29, 2009 0:14:14
High Str is obvious, high con is for plate armor and axe feats, wis is for polearm feats and Cleric, and Cha is warlord and cleric stuff. So all my attributes are right where they need to be, unfortunately! It's an odd build I grant you, extrememly MAD, but I have high hopes that everything will combine to make a unique, extremely fun to play character!

If not, of course, I have no one to blame but myself.
#19

AvonRekaes

Jun 29, 2009 8:44:14
It happened in Aundair, as far as Breland is concerned it's a foreign matter and foreign warrants hold no force of law in Breland.

Might I suggest that your character have a nemesis that the DM can incorporate into his campaign? A Sentinel Marshal empowered to cross international borders and arrest your aundarian war criminal butt. I's what Sentinel Marshals do, after all.

Caleb might truly feel guilty for what he's done and know he'll have to fight his own demons for the rest of his life, but he may ultimately feel like it was the right thing to do, and that he is undeserving of incarceration and execution for saving the lives of most of the people in that valley.
#20

rauric

Jun 29, 2009 9:01:15
I would focus on one weapon though. Multiple weapons can be expensive if you wish to get them to be equal with your level. Do what you will but I have seen some of these mistakes happen before in a 4E game and it equals lack of fun for the pc most times, and the other players too in some cases. If you're not helping the group much because of lack of focus it does kinda hurt the party, and 4E is a group game now more than ever.

My suggestion is go with polearm for reach (it keeps you away from combat kinda) and just stick with chain or maybe scale. Wis for a cleric should not be for feats as much as the healing that can be done. It seems like you almost should just go with a straight warlord build. I read your story and all of those could be plugged into the character and might be less MAD and cause you less tears. The religious angle can just be roleplayed. You mentioned the polearm alot in the story so don't even worry about the axe and plate.

Making a PC that will come into his own "later" is never a great idea IMO because the PC might not make it to those levels if he/she cannot keep up. The players might get fed up with it or you might.

Just a few thoughts that are all just my opinions.
#21

SteelMirror

Jun 29, 2009 11:51:14
I am going to use the halberd, which is an axe and a polearm as well!

I get what you're saying, and here is my counterargument.

Raising my Str to 18 would be expensive, requiring both my Con and my Wis to go down to 10 (Con would end up at 12 because of racial). This means, among other things, that I could never get polearm gamble (one of my favorite feats!), could never wear heavy armor, and would have to raise Int or Dex to increase my AC. The only place left to subtract from would be Cha, so my Cha would have to go down to 10 (again, 12 for racial) and my Int would still be a measly 14.

So what have I gained? +1 to attack and damage. Admittedly important, but less so than you might think. I'm a leader, so I'm really not focused on dealing dmg myself. Sure, +1 to Wolf-Pack Tactics is a little additional dmg, but the good part of that attack is the shift I grant to an ally, which happens whether I hit or miss! Righteous brand is also a Str attack, but it's primary benefit is granting a bonus to allies. That bonus increases with a bonus to Str, but +1 is a small gain for such a great cost, and I would lose it because those scores aren't suited for a hybrid cleric in any case.

Again, what is the cost? First of all, I lose a surge and 3 hp at first level. My AC with light armor would be 15, while with heavy it would be 16 (and 18 once I got plate). I could no longer be a Cleric hybrid, so I would lose my good at wills and a fair amount of healing power (again, abilities that don't require an attack roll to be effective). The polearm gamble/eldritch strike combo at paragon levels would be gone, and my half-elf +2 charisma would be wasted. Worse, my two secondary scores would be a 14 and a 12, hardly an optimal distribution!

I hoope those arguments make sense, and I appreciate your constructive criticism! I know that MAD characters that try to do many things often turn out to be just bad at everything, but as a leader character I have high hopes that this character won't end up like that. And if it does, back to the drawing board!