House Jorasco... Cleric of the Silver Flame? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

House Jorasco... Cleric of the Silver Flame?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
misterfido_dup
Aug 12, 2009 4:11:43 I was wondering what people's views were on dragonmarked divine characters. Martial, Primal (like Sahemi) and Arcane, I can get how a PC would be a healer. But what would the story with Divine healers be?

A cleric shows nothing but devotion to his god, in this case, the Silver Flame... and a halfling of Jorasco shows nothing but devotion to his House.

How do you combine those two odd ends, especially now in 4E that having a Mark of Healing means you should probably be a leader, like a cleric, rather than in 3.5 where it implied you could be anything, and you had some side-healing magic.

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is... what does the House think of his being a Cleric? What does his church think of him being loyal to the House and not healing without charging? Who does he take orders from for quests? Is it considered a conflict of interests to be a Silver Flame Jorasco Healer, since that's a relatively local religion (in the common person's eye?)
#2
ieattrollsforbreakfast
Aug 12, 2009 10:59:26 If he's not charging for healing the common folk, the House might see it as something of an advertising campaign. Every good deed he does reflects well on the House, and may boost popular opinion of Jorasco. Especially in Thrane, where the House might benefit from association with the Church.
#3
Chigaru
Aug 12, 2009 10:59:35 First of all, I think such a potentially conflicted character is great. You've got so much room for development it's not even funny. Having him resolve his differences between his faith and his familial duty would make for a great personal quest.

Right quick though, the Silver Flame isn't restricted to Thrane. Pretty much all of central-to-east Khorvaire has a Silver Flame population at least in the minority.

I would imagine that the Church and House Jorasco are each nervous about their little champion. Likely they each tell him, "What you're doing is fine, just don't get too involved..."

I think the most important thing is that you ask your DM.
#4
misterfido_dup
Aug 12, 2009 11:09:29
I think the most important thing is that you ask your DM.

Ask my DM... I am the DM, this is for a PC of mine =P I want to know how to react to him =P
#5
roma_wolves
Aug 12, 2009 11:34:31 Partly depends on where the game is set. If it's set in Thrane where everyone is part of the Church, it'd be more difficult for the character to charge for services.

If the game is, for example, in Vedykar or some other place unlikely to hold a lot of worshipers of the Silver Flame, the character would likely be charging for services to unbelievers anyway. Then the only question is what percentage of the funds raised belongs to the House and what goes to the church?
#6
soyim
Aug 12, 2009 11:47:01 I actually don't see a conflict.

Just because a person is a member of the Dragonmarked House doesn't make them a soulless corporate drone with no concerns beyond making cash: people who want to make money can also be religious: even deeply religious.

The easiest solution, as i see it, is to have the character Tithe to the Church- but not an active member of its Heirarchy (which is terrible for PC's anyways- unless your doing a mostly Thranish Intrigue Game based around the church). He works for his house, he gives money to the church and seeks out and destroys evil, he protects his friends: all of these things work fine together.

In fact the character is rather blessed- because the combination of his faith and his Dragonmark allow him to succeed where others might fail: i think he would actually be quite thankful for both aspects, having him be wracked with doubt and torn between faith and house seems unnecessary. Afterall if he's already an Adventurer there's no problem with him not taking shifts at the Healing House or Preaching from the pulpit.
#7
Hellcow
Aug 12, 2009 17:58:55
I actually don't see a conflict. Just because a person is a member of the Dragonmarked House doesn't make them a soulless corporate drone with no concerns beyond making cash: people who want to make money can also be religious: even deeply religious.

I agree. It's been said before that quite a few members of House Jorasco offer prayers to Olladra; they are simply able to reconcile this with the fact that they charge for their services. They would likely say that the financial success of the house is necessary to allow them to continue to provide services.

A key point is that in Eberron, churches aren't generally in the hospital business. A friar of the Silver Flame may heal those in need where he wanders, and a priestess of Boldrei may establish a free clinic. But first off, these are very small scale operations and are going to be aimed at the people who can't afford to pay for care - in other words, they aren't stealing business from Jorasco, because if you can afford to go to Jorasco, they'll tell you to go there. Second, a charity operation simply won't be able to provide the level of care you can get from Jorasco. Rituals cost money, and while a house of Boldrei might draw resources from community donations, they need to manage those and save them for true disasters - like a plague that could destroy an entire settlement if cure disease isn't employed. If your disease is non-fatal, then you can afford to just have a priest tend you with the Heal skill. Sure, it might take longer to recover - but if you absolutely positively have to be better overnight, go to Jorasco.

So: charitable/religious institutions exist, but they aren't huge competition for Jorasco.

Now, looking to the heir... he has the mark of Healing. But what sort of heir is he? Dragonmarked talks about the Scion - "A member of the house who embraces his heritage but keeps his distance from the administration of the house. This is the most common background for dragonmarked adventurers; orphans and excoriates are quite rare, but many young heirs wish to see the world before settling down in one of the house guilds." Assuming this heir actually IS an heir as opposed to an excoriate or orphan, a decision to do charity work shouldn't get him in trouble with the house unless his actions are directly and seriously impacting the profits of the house. But the actions of a single charitable healer aren't likely to do that. He might have his mother sending him messages asking when he's going to settle down and get a real job, but unless he starts organizing a huge corps of Jorasco flamite healers and providing the church with access to proprietary Jorasco techniques and tools, the actions of an individual are unlikely to cause trouble. And certainly, using healing word on your buddies isn't the kind of thing that would get you in bad with the house.

Looking to the SF, I think they understand Jorasco charging those who can afford to pay... along with the fact that component costs mean that you CAN'T provide magical healing to everyone in need. However, the average priest would likely expect a devout heir to do what he could to aid those in desperate need who cannot get aid any other way... and I'm sure tithing wouldn't go amiss.

Speaking TO Jorasco clerics, as a general rule, Boldrei and Olladra are both good matches for the house. However, what we've said in the past is that many Jorasco adepts do not in fact worship a deity, but rather commit themselves to the abstract cause of healing, drawing their power from the lifeforce of the world (not entirely primal, because they aren't especially into nature - but essentially touching Eberron to gain their power). If I was to make sure an abstract divine healer in 4E, I'd probably use the Light Within channel divinity feat.
#8
Alex_
Aug 12, 2009 21:31:34
I was wondering what people's views were on dragonmarked divine characters. Martial, Primal (like Sahemi) and Arcane, I can get how a PC would be a healer. But what would the story with Divine healers be?

A cleric shows nothing but devotion to his god, in this case, the Silver Flame... and a halfling of Jorasco shows nothing but devotion to his House.

How do you combine those two odd ends, especially now in 4E that having a Mark of Healing means you should probably be a leader, like a cleric, rather than in 3.5 where it implied you could be anything, and you had some side-healing magic.

I played a character like this.

He was a very spiritual and compassionate character, a fact which brought him into conflict with some of the more pragmatic and materialistic members of his house. House Jorasco is called out as being one of the more money grubbing of the houses.

During the war, he provided healing to anyone he could, friend or foe, independently of who had established dealings or payment with house Jorasco. This hurt his standing in the house, and he has since fallen from their good graces. He was "reassigned" and now he's considered an less consequential member of the house. This suited him just fine since now he could provide more healing services with less red tape and accountability to his superiors.

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is... what does the House think of his being a Cleric? What does his church think of him being loyal to the House and not healing without charging? Who does he take orders from for quests? Is it considered a conflict of interests to be a Silver Flame Jorasco Healer, since that's a relatively local religion (in the common person's eye?)

The Silver Flame is not a local faith., It's the most common faith after the Soverign Host, with considerable populations in Aundair (where the most radical live), Breland, Zilargo, and even some followers in Karrnath. What's more, it's a faith that also encourages evangelizing, so you're very likely to find a member of Silver Flame traveling abroad in an attempt to spread the faith rather than sitting at home and practicing in private.

House Jorasco is also noted as having turned its back on its traditional Halfling roots. While House Ghallanda maintains its headquarters in the Talenta Plains and runs the Traveling Inn in the region, house Jorasco moved to Karrnath and have assimilated more into the culture of the Five Nations.

I would assume this would also be reflected in their faith. Less likely to practice traditional Halfling beliefs centering around nature and wilderness and more open to faiths popular amongst Humans.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 misterfido_dup Aug 12, 2009 4:11:43	I was wondering what people's views were on dragonmarked divine characters. Martial, Primal (like Sahemi) and Arcane, I can get how a PC would be a healer. But what would the story with Divine healers be? A cleric shows nothing but devotion to his god, in this case, the Silver Flame... and a halfling of Jorasco shows nothing but devotion to his House. How do you combine those two odd ends, especially now in 4E that having a Mark of Healing means you should probably be a leader, like a cleric, rather than in 3.5 where it implied you could be anything, and you had some side-healing magic. EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is... what does the House think of his being a Cleric? What does his church think of him being loyal to the House and not healing without charging? Who does he take orders from for quests? Is it considered a conflict of interests to be a Silver Flame Jorasco Healer, since that's a relatively local religion (in the common person's eye?)
#2 ieattrollsforbreakfast Aug 12, 2009 10:59:26	If he's not charging for healing the common folk, the House might see it as something of an advertising campaign. Every good deed he does reflects well on the House, and may boost popular opinion of Jorasco. Especially in Thrane, where the House might benefit from association with the Church.
#3 Chigaru Aug 12, 2009 10:59:35	First of all, I think such a potentially conflicted character is great. You've got so much room for development it's not even funny. Having him resolve his differences between his faith and his familial duty would make for a great personal quest. Right quick though, the Silver Flame isn't restricted to Thrane. Pretty much all of central-to-east Khorvaire has a Silver Flame population at least in the minority. I would imagine that the Church and House Jorasco are each nervous about their little champion. Likely they each tell him, "What you're doing is fine, just don't get too involved..." I think the most important thing is that you ask your DM.
#4 misterfido_dup Aug 12, 2009 11:09:29	I think the most important thing is that you ask your DM. Ask my DM... I am the DM, this is for a PC of mine =P I want to know how to react to him =P
#5 roma_wolves Aug 12, 2009 11:34:31	Partly depends on where the game is set. If it's set in Thrane where everyone is part of the Church, it'd be more difficult for the character to charge for services. If the game is, for example, in Vedykar or some other place unlikely to hold a lot of worshipers of the Silver Flame, the character would likely be charging for services to unbelievers anyway. Then the only question is what percentage of the funds raised belongs to the House and what goes to the church?
#6 soyim Aug 12, 2009 11:47:01	I actually don't see a conflict. Just because a person is a member of the Dragonmarked House doesn't make them a soulless corporate drone with no concerns beyond making cash: people who want to make money can also be religious: even deeply religious. The easiest solution, as i see it, is to have the character Tithe to the Church- but not an active member of its Heirarchy (which is terrible for PC's anyways- unless your doing a mostly Thranish Intrigue Game based around the church). He works for his house, he gives money to the church and seeks out and destroys evil, he protects his friends: all of these things work fine together. In fact the character is rather blessed- because the combination of his faith and his Dragonmark allow him to succeed where others might fail: i think he would actually be quite thankful for both aspects, having him be wracked with doubt and torn between faith and house seems unnecessary. Afterall if he's already an Adventurer there's no problem with him not taking shifts at the Healing House or Preaching from the pulpit.
#7 Hellcow Aug 12, 2009 17:58:55	I actually don't see a conflict. Just because a person is a member of the Dragonmarked House doesn't make them a soulless corporate drone with no concerns beyond making cash: people who want to make money can also be religious: even deeply religious. I agree. It's been said before that quite a few members of House Jorasco offer prayers to Olladra; they are simply able to reconcile this with the fact that they charge for their services. They would likely say that the financial success of the house is necessary to allow them to continue to provide services. A key point is that in Eberron, churches aren't generally in the hospital business. A friar of the Silver Flame may heal those in need where he wanders, and a priestess of Boldrei may establish a free clinic. But first off, these are very small scale operations and are going to be aimed at the people who can't afford to pay for care - in other words, they aren't stealing business from Jorasco, because if you can afford to go to Jorasco, they'll tell you to go there. Second, a charity operation simply won't be able to provide the level of care you can get from Jorasco. Rituals cost money, and while a house of Boldrei might draw resources from community donations, they need to manage those and save them for true disasters - like a plague that could destroy an entire settlement if cure disease isn't employed. If your disease is non-fatal, then you can afford to just have a priest tend you with the Heal skill. Sure, it might take longer to recover - but if you absolutely positively have to be better overnight, go to Jorasco. So: charitable/religious institutions exist, but they aren't huge competition for Jorasco. Now, looking to the heir... he has the mark of Healing. But what sort of heir is he? Dragonmarked talks about the Scion - "A member of the house who embraces his heritage but keeps his distance from the administration of the house. This is the most common background for dragonmarked adventurers; orphans and excoriates are quite rare, but many young heirs wish to see the world before settling down in one of the house guilds." Assuming this heir actually IS an heir as opposed to an excoriate or orphan, a decision to do charity work shouldn't get him in trouble with the house unless his actions are directly and seriously impacting the profits of the house. But the actions of a single charitable healer aren't likely to do that. He might have his mother sending him messages asking when he's going to settle down and get a real job, but unless he starts organizing a huge corps of Jorasco flamite healers and providing the church with access to proprietary Jorasco techniques and tools, the actions of an individual are unlikely to cause trouble. And certainly, using healing word on your buddies isn't the kind of thing that would get you in bad with the house. Looking to the SF, I think they understand Jorasco charging those who can afford to pay... along with the fact that component costs mean that you CAN'T provide magical healing to everyone in need. However, the average priest would likely expect a devout heir to do what he could to aid those in desperate need who cannot get aid any other way... and I'm sure tithing wouldn't go amiss. Speaking TO Jorasco clerics, as a general rule, Boldrei and Olladra are both good matches for the house. However, what we've said in the past is that many Jorasco adepts do not in fact worship a deity, but rather commit themselves to the abstract cause of healing, drawing their power from the lifeforce of the world (not entirely primal, because they aren't especially into nature - but essentially touching Eberron to gain their power). If I was to make sure an abstract divine healer in 4E, I'd probably use the Light Within channel divinity feat.
#8 Alex_ Aug 12, 2009 21:31:34	I was wondering what people's views were on dragonmarked divine characters. Martial, Primal (like Sahemi) and Arcane, I can get how a PC would be a healer. But what would the story with Divine healers be? A cleric shows nothing but devotion to his god, in this case, the Silver Flame... and a halfling of Jorasco shows nothing but devotion to his House. How do you combine those two odd ends, especially now in 4E that having a Mark of Healing means you should probably be a leader, like a cleric, rather than in 3.5 where it implied you could be anything, and you had some side-healing magic. I played a character like this. He was a very spiritual and compassionate character, a fact which brought him into conflict with some of the more pragmatic and materialistic members of his house. House Jorasco is called out as being one of the more money grubbing of the houses. During the war, he provided healing to anyone he could, friend or foe, independently of who had established dealings or payment with house Jorasco. This hurt his standing in the house, and he has since fallen from their good graces. He was "reassigned" and now he's considered an less consequential member of the house. This suited him just fine since now he could provide more healing services with less red tape and accountability to his superiors. EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is... what does the House think of his being a Cleric? What does his church think of him being loyal to the House and not healing without charging? Who does he take orders from for quests? Is it considered a conflict of interests to be a Silver Flame Jorasco Healer, since that's a relatively local religion (in the common person's eye?) The Silver Flame is not a local faith., It's the most common faith after the Soverign Host, with considerable populations in Aundair (where the most radical live), Breland, Zilargo, and even some followers in Karrnath. What's more, it's a faith that also encourages evangelizing, so you're very likely to find a member of Silver Flame traveling abroad in an attempt to spread the faith rather than sitting at home and practicing in private. House Jorasco is also noted as having turned its back on its traditional Halfling roots. While House Ghallanda maintains its headquarters in the Talenta Plains and runs the Traveling Inn in the region, house Jorasco moved to Karrnath and have assimilated more into the culture of the Five Nations. I would assume this would also be reflected in their faith. Less likely to practice traditional Halfling beliefs centering around nature and wilderness and more open to faiths popular amongst Humans.