so after reading up on Eberron wiki and reading the history of both houses in the ECG the official story of The Shadow Schism goes more or less like this
In 972 YK, when one of the lines of Phiarlan's - the Paelion family - plotted to seize power from rulers of the Five nations, and the rightful leaders of House Phiarlan. Agents of the Emerald Claw discovered the plot and told the leader of the Thuranni line. The Thuranni killed all the Paelion family in order to stop their plot. The few Paelions that survived went into hiding. Barron Elvinor Elorrenthi d'Phiarlan of the Phiarlan family condemned the action and called for the excoriation of the entire Thuranni family.
Elar Thuranni refused to accept this judgement so rather than give up his position as a viceroy of the oldest dragonmarked house he declared his family to be a new house. After years of argument, the Twelve agreed, and house Thuranni was born.
Ok everything pretty much cleared up there.
Then i read up on the bloody shadows on the 2 page spread of House Thuranni in the ECG and it says though there is a strong rivalry between the houses there is a strict limit to the feud: no assassination.
But then i read up on the Thuranni Shadow Killer and one part of the description it gives you says you are the scourge of House Phiarlan and anyone else who has enemies with the coin to afford your services.
so what does this mean that the Thuranni Shadow Killer is a indirect scourge to House Phiarlan?
was there physical contact between the houses when they split?
what really is the limit to the feud ?
just getting really confused here help set me straight please
could you help me out Alex with this aswell
http://sites.google.com/site/hgeberron/pcs/kayleth
this is the players background i was on about
it states that her family were murdered by house Phiarlan is this plausible?
i just thought when House Thuranni split from House Phiarlan there was no conflict between them not a physical one anyway.
And after i read the part on The Bloody Shadows i thought she be going against the house if she was to pursue her parents killers
with the whole limits on the feud
ah ok so basically there's a mutual understanding between the 2 houses which is represented to the twelve but it just a front?
Eberron is a setting with a lot of intrigue. People don't always follow the law. Right is sometimes wrong anf wrong is sometimes right. People sometimes do what they do because it's convient for them.
There a great many agreements between the houses, governments, and other insitutions in Eberron. They are not all followed to the letter. Dragonmarked Houses aren't supposed to own land. House Lyrandar has its own island in Aundair and growing presence in Valenar. House Cannith was supposed to destroy all its creation forges. Merrix D'Canith, the leader of Cannith's southern holdings is still making Warforged in his secret creation forge. House Tharrask and House Denneith compete with one another for mercenary/bounty hunting gigs, sometimes sabotaging one another. Houses are supposed to be neutral, but they clearly show preferences.
Ideally, they should all play by the rules and get along just fine. That's just not how it works in "reality".
could you help me out Alex with this aswell
http://sites.google.com/site/hgeberron/pcs/kayleth
this is the players background i was on about
it states that her family were murdered by house Phiarlan is this plausible?
Looks fine to me.
i just thought when House Thuranni split from House Phiarlan there was no conflict between them not a physical one anyway.
And after i read the part on The Bloody Shadows i thought she be going against the house if she was to pursue her parents killers
with the whole limits on the feud
You have two groups who are experts in the arts of subterfuge and assassnination. They're so good that the average Khorvaire citizen doesn't even know that they provide spy/assassination services and instead thinks of them as performers and entertainers. They are the house of SHADOWS. Everything they do revolves around deception and concealment.
If they have a violent conflict, who's really going to know?
i know that the other houses would probably know next to nothing if a violent encounter or conflict happened between the 2
and there most trusted and prized clients would be none the wiser
but house Phiarlan would most likely know or find out that one of there own had been killed deliberately by a Thuranni assassin
and if that was the case would there be repercussions for it ?
im just wondering if my character is going out of her way to kill a Phiarlan would there be consequences for it possibly sparking something of between the 2 houses or is it simply the way of things
of course i can make what i want but was just wondering what the general standing on this might be if any or what other peoples suggestions might be
other than that thanks for putting me straight Alex and opening my mind a bit more
First 3 things: 1. I've LOVED Eberron since picking it up. I read nearly all the 3.5 books cover to cover. 2. I JUST got a copy of the 4e EPG. This means I don't really know details on what they might have refocused. 3. Until informed otherwise, I'm going to assume you're new to Eberron.
The split basically happened as you summarized.
The Bloody Shadows as I understand them are Paelion survivors who strike from the shadows at both houses. At Thuranni because that line wiped out the Paelions. At Phiarlan because they (some might say) failed to protect the Paelions or didn't punish the Thurannis enough or just to prove they are just as deadly even with few numbers. They would not be part of either house, just elves bent on vengeance.
The houses are a business, first and foremost, so I would think they don't actively go after each other. That being said, whenever the houses contact each other, things could get dicy. They have a fierce rivalry which could mean exploiting and upsetting each other when they get the chance.
For example, say a Thuranni agent is tasked with retrieving some information. During the course of investigation he discovers a Phiarlan is after the same target. The Thuranni could contemplate attacking the Phairlan first to avoid disruptions, he could try to simply beat the Phiarlan to the information and inform the Phiarlan of his victory, or the Thuranni might wait for the Phiarlan to make its move and then alert the authorities, catching the Phiarlan in the act and damaging House Phiarlan's reputation.
If one of the houses has information the other desires then conflict is more likely. However, the way I see it both houses know the other is very skilled. It would take large amounts of resources for one to actively shadow war against the other. These resources are better spent building business for the house. The world is big enough for both houses to give the other a wide berth, for now.
House Phiarlan is made up of several lineages of elves. Tialaen, Shol, and before the split Thuranni were just some of the families. The Thurannis murdered the Paelions and formed their own house in the aftermath. So, technically speaking, the Phiarlans did kill the character's parents. It is very likely the killers were of the Thuranni bloodline however.
The real question you have to consider as a DM is who killed the parents. After you decide that things will begin to fall into place.
If I were going to refine this/make up some stuff to throw the player for a loop, here would be my suggestions:
1. The PC is actually a Paelion. Since the background said Thurannis trained her she could have been given that name, I'd assume the killer abducted her and the killers she's hunting are the people who raised her. The Thurannis believed they were acting for the good of house Phiarlan, which could explain the memory.
2. Alternatively, the killer was either a Phairlan or Paelion who was looking to get back at the Thurannis. If this is the case (especially if it was a Phairlan) the killer could still be in Fairhaven/Aundair. When she collected and sold information the killer was tipped off that she was still alive. The killer then decides it is time to finish the job.
3. If you want, don't let your mind be bound by the intra-house conflict. Heck, her parents could have been spying on the wrong people, Inspired people. The Inspired then used the chaos of the house split to eliminate the parents but had some kind of plan for her. They implanted the memory just so she would seek out Phairlans who now have some other part to play.
4. There is always the Prophecy to rescue you too. Someone studying the prophecy saw the need to hire Phiarlan to eliminate the parents and save the child. Now she fights her way to the person responsible only to find out her parents' deaths averted thousands of others. Anything is really possible.
Enjoy Eberron, hope I helped!
Thuranni and Phiarlan have what could best be described as a friendly rivalry. They compete in the business arena. However, as a rule, they do not kill each other. Why? First you have the fact that they ARE family. The split only occurred 30 years ago, a short time in the life of an elf. The families had intermingled for thousands of years before that; the Phiarlans can trace their history all the way back to the elven uprising of Xen'drik. Yes, there are feuds, rivalries, tensions based on working for clients on opposite sides of the fence. Individual members of the families may let passions run hot. But overall, they are still siblings, and don't wish to ruin one another; they simply wish to prove their superiority over the rival house.
This is followed by the fact that if they WANTED to ruin each other, they could. They know each other too well. They know too much about identities, methods of operation, holdings, and so on. If one side started with assassinations or exposing agents, the other would retaliate in kind. A brutal, open conflict would decimate the power of both houses in short order. Thus, competition is accepted, within the rules both houses have chosen to play by. Breaking those rules without an excellent reason ("That Paelion assassin is going to shatter the Five Nations") invites retaliation in kind - and may cause a character to be censured by his own house, lest he bring ruin upon all of them.
The Shadow Killer is the "scourge of House Phiarlan" - but that doesn't mean that he murders Phiarlans. He is the best of Thuranni's agents. Thuranni is in competition with Phiarlan, and is noted as having the edge when it comes to assassination - due to agents like the Shadow Killers. Thus, from a business perspective, the SK is a scourge simply by being good at what he does. He may also directly strike at Phiarlan, pursuing either a personal feud or general business interests. But he would still be wise to follow the shared rules of the houses when doing so. Thuranni may have the edge in assassination, but Phiarlan still has the advantage in espionage, and the Shadow Killer who murders his cousins without good reasons may find his secrets revealed; he could be framed, or simply have murders he's committed brought into the light of day. If he keeps things at the level of a battle of wits, his Phiarlan rivals are bound to do the same. But if he starts murdering, he's raising the ante - and he'd best have an excellent reason for doing this.
There are always exceptions - like the Paelions. And the surviving Paelions might well also use the Shadow Killer PP, and they take pleasure in assassinating mmbers of both houses.
By and large, however, the Shadow Schism wasn't a bloody affair (except for the Paelions). The Thuranni line and its allies turned on the Paelions. Elvinor and the other three primary families condemned the action and called for excoriation. Elar refused to accept the punishment, and the Twelve backed him up and recognized his new house - denying the Phiarlan request for a general excoriation recognized by the other houses. But it wasn't a long extended war between the houses.
With that said, posters above have touched on key points.
- At the time of the actual conflict, the Thuranni were Phiarlans. It was mainly a Paelion-Thuranni conflict, and a short and brutal one at that. So a quick easy answer is for the character in question to be a Paelion orphan raised by the Thuranni who killed her parents. She may be confused about the facts, but it would be a very interesting moral dilemma for her to discover that the people she now thinks of as her family actually killed her blood kin. Will she join the Bloody Shadows? Will she accept the claim that the leaders of the Paelion line were leading the line astray and had to be dealt with? Will she seek a personal vengeance against the assassin that actually killed her parents and leave it there?
- By and large, the Shadow Schism was a war of words. But again, Paelion, Thuranni, Shol and the rest were all family. There may well have been a Tialaen who was related to a Paelion and sought a bloodier vengeance against her cousin's killers. The issue here is that the Thuranni made the first strike against Paelion. So, the PC knows a Tialaen killed her parents. But when she pursues this, she discovers that it was retaliation for the ruthless killings carried out by her parents. So, does she perpetuate the feud or try to lay these bloody shadows to rest?
- The schism may have been a war of words, but the massacre of the Paelions was vicious and deadly. It's quite possible the PC's parents could have been killed in this struggle, as Paelions who survived the initial attack took retaliation. And technically, they were Phiarlan at the time. But today, they are no part of Phiarlan. So after learning the full story, does the PC continue a vendetta against Phiarlan, or turn against the Bloody Shadows?
- In general, the Thuranni and Paelion lines were the best assassins of House Phiarlan... and the most willing to perform such ugly work. There are assassins in Phiarlan still. But their greater strength is in the manipulation of information. As such, having a Thuranni being murdered by a Phiarlan is possible for any number of reasons, from a crime of passion to self-defense. But it was never common, so the question to me is what the truth behind it is. If the character's parents were assassinated by Phiarlan assassins, why was it done?
- As suggested before, the "Phiarlan" killer could have been manipulated by the Dreaming Dark, or could have been an agent of the Lords of Dust or the Chamber - possibly even a disguised fiend or dragon. In the case of Chamber or LoD, this would suggest that the PC has a role to play in the Prophecy - and that the murder was necessary to set her on the desired path.
In any case, there are ongoing feuds between Phiarlan and Thuranni, but these are typically conducted in a civilized manner. Assassination is possible, but careless and unjustified killings will have consequences. The Paelions are your easy answer here - you just have to decide if you want them to be villains battling the PCs or if they are the underdogs seeking a rightful vengeance.
Anyhow, that's more than I had time to say, so I'll stop here. Have fun!
You could get like a really weird elven Mr. & Mrs. Smith scenario out of all of this.
Certainly.
the inspired dark was a interesting suggestion i had not considered that one
but looks like it playing out as quite a complicated Mr. & Mrs. Smith scenario
thanks again people
What is it about Dragonmarked Elven family lines and genocide anyway?
Strange how it was an order dedicated to another marked elf that tipped off the Thuranni. ;)
Have Fun