Does anyone have maps comparing eberron states or cities to those of earth?
It's roughly half-way between the sizes of Earth and Mars, unless the oceans at the edges of the map are significantly larger than they're depicted.
You sure about this? Khorvaire is humongous if you go by the scale of the continent map in the books. I can't find it right now, but I recall some people crunching the numbers in a thread years back and determined that Eberron was just slightly larger than our little homeworld. I'm no astrophysicist, however, so don't quote me on any of this.
Also, for an interesting point of note about the scale of that map, Hellcow disagrees: www.crystalmarch.com/forum/viewtopic.php...
...you know, thinking about it, Keith's quoted passage in that link makes a lot of things make sense that never quite did in the book. This idea might bear some further thought, considering that I'd always worked my population numbers off the feeling that those presented in the books was lowballed by about a factor of ten (the same factor he uses, just applied in the opposite direction)
To M4kitsu, I recall a poster, Octavius or some such? crunching the numbers of population density in Eberron, and they came out almost laughably low. He compared them to real-world areas like Siberia, and Siberia had more people per square mile than some nations in Eberron. I think even when he multiplied by 10, it was still surprisingly underpopulated, but I can't remember.
To the OP: As big as you need it to be. (<.<) (>.>)
Chip truth, omae.
To M4kitsu, I recall a poster, Octavius or some such? crunching the numbers of population density in Eberron, and they came out almost laughably low. He compared them to real-world areas like Siberia, and Siberia had more people per square mile than some nations in Eberron. I think even when he multiplied by 10, it was still surprisingly underpopulated, but I can't remember.
Yeah, that name sounds right. Multiplying the population by ten does give numbers that are still laughably low, but more acceptable if you assume (a) that the world just came out of an utterly devastating war, (b) most of Khorvaire is empty, uninhabited space (which fits well with 4e's Points of Light theme, I think) and (c) that most of Khorvaire's population is actually urban.
Sharn as a city of 200,000 means you could walk for days in the city and never see another living soul. Sharn as a city of 2 million gives much more of the bustling crowds that the city is described as having, no matter how big Khorvaire is in relation to it.
I believe the scale of the world was also pulled back in the 4th edition campaign setting?
It was adjusted, but still incorrectly, since the scale of the maps are still inconsistent with one another.
Ogiwan really does have the best answer to the problem.
That quote does make some of the descriptions of battles make much, much more sense.
Yes, it does. Unfortunately, it throws off almost all of the other data in the books. That can be compensated for, but requires more work than a lot of people are willing to put into a pre-made setting, I've found.
Multiplying the population by ten does give numbers that are still laughably low, but more acceptable if you assume (a) that the world just came out of an utterly devastating war, (b) most of Khorvaire is empty, uninhabited space (which fits well with 4e's Points of Light theme, I think) and (c) that most of Khorvaire's population is actually urban.
All of which is supposed to be true. It's always been the case that places like Breland are supposed to be densely populated around key areas, but then to have large areas of open space that have never been settled - places where a Dhakaani ruin could still be found all but untouched. There's settlements in the darkness hoping to seize the potential of a newly discovered manifest zone or dragonshard vein - places that might prosper or die, places that may have had a lightning rail line once nly to have it be destroyed in the war. So there's lots of room for "points of light".
Ultimately, I just don't pay too much attention to those numbers, myself. My Sharn is a crowded place, with Cyrans and other refugees packed into Highwalls and people buzzing through the streets. It may be that it's closer to 2 million; the important thing for me is that it's "Population: Crowded". Likewise, what's important to me is that it doesn't take the players a month to get from Sharn to Graywall, because that's not exciting. But I've never been one to plot it out with a ruler and calculate it precisely; I'm just going to decide that it takes them five days, because it feels right to me.
I realize this is an unsatisfactory answer for many, and it is frustrating for me that we had the disconnect to begin with, because again, that's what I think it was. But the key to me is to do what's right for your story; don't let a number hold you back. If you want Sharn to be crowded, make it crowded, even if the book suggests that there's tumbleweeds rolling around.
In any case... I did the math based on the new map: Eberron's equatorial circumference is approximately 12,000 miles. The circumference of Earth is 24,000 miles, and the circumference of Mars is 13,000 miles. So the planet has shrunk significantly between editions, and is now smaller than Faerun (which was just about the same size as Mars).
Ultimately, I just don't pay too much attention to those numbers, myself. My Sharn is a crowded place, with Cyrans and other refugees packed into Highwalls and people buzzing through the streets. It may be that it's closer to 2 million; the important thing for me is that it's "Population: Crowded". Likewise, what's important to me is that it doesn't take the players a month to get from Sharn to Graywall, because that's not exciting. But I've never been one to plot it out with a ruler and calculate it precisely; I'm just going to decide that it takes them five days, because it feels right to me.
I think the majority of DMs running Eberron will ultimately come to the same conclusion, and I certainly agree. I've the somewhat unfortunate situation of more than one regular player who is big on hard data, so I needed to come up with an explanation that was at least good enough to stand up to a cursory glance -hence my 10x solution. It's a ballpark estimate at best, but it satisfied those players of mine at least long enough to distract them with gameplay.
In any case... I did the math based on the new map: Eberron's equatorial circumference is approximately 12,000 miles. The circumference of Earth is 24,000 miles, and the circumference of Mars is 13,000 miles. So the planet has shrunk significantly between editions, and is now smaller than Faerun (which was just about the same size as Mars).
Now if you're bored, compare the width of Khorvaire in the continent map to the width indicated in the country maps. I haven't checked the ECG/EPG yet, but they were different in the ECS.
Nah - if I were really bored, I would calculate how much mass Khyber must have in order to give Eberron roughly the same gravity as Earth, and how much energy the dragonshards in the Ring of Siberys must be absorbing to prevent the planet's own EM field from frying the brains of its inhabitants
Great. You just killed eberron for me
All to cover the distance between Breland and Karnnath in about 5 days.
I also figure that Syberys, Eberron, and Khyber were all proto-planets that smashed into each other in the distant past as they orbited Eberron's sun (I chose to take the Mythology as a figurative aspect than a literal one).I've also have it set up that Humans are space aliens from somewhere and that the goblinoids are native to Eberron. The City Aventus in my chronology is actually like the Space City Atlantis on Stargate: Atlantis.
Boy, I'm rambling. . .
Although, I recently had the brilliant idea of making Eberron a hollow world.
Sorry, but the context of this thread was too good not to post something.
The great thing about worlds like Eberron is that, when you want crunchy numbers, they're there. Otherwise, (unless you have a map-nazi) a party isnt going to ask why it took so long to get to Random Point of Light A. In the literary style of the world, it all becomse subjective. I love this because I love the "It's not the destination, it's the journey" campaigns.
I run Eberron to be about 24,000 miles in circumference around the Equator. I also upgraded the speed of the Lightning Rail to run as fast as an Amtrak Train and I have House Orien and House Cannith working on a bullet train that is capable of speeds at 300 MPH or more.
All to cover the distance between Breland and Karnnath in about 5 days.
I've also have it set up that Humans are space aliens from somewhere and that the goblinoids are native to Eberron. The City Aventus in my chronology is actually like the Space City Atlantis on Stargate: Atlantis.
Boy, I'm rambling. . .
Although, I recently had the brilliant idea of making Eberron a hollow world.
I smell a Spacejammer hook.
I also figure that Syberys, Eberron, and Khyber were all proto-planets that smashed into each other in the distant past as they orbited Eberron's sun (I chose to take the Mythology as a figurative aspect than a literal one).
I've also have it set up that Humans are space aliens from somewhere and that the goblinoids are native to Eberron. The City Aventus in my chronology is actually like the Space City Atlantis on Stargate: Atlantis.
I really, really like this. A lot.
Sometimes it bothers me that people think they have to invent an entirely alien cosmology (meaning getting rid of real cosmology like planets orbiting stars, galaxies, etc...) instead of just adding the desired parts. Space is an extremely alien environment, and even without spicing it up with fantasy it definitely can be used.
Not to say that I'm a stickler for realism; when I build cosmologies, my love of astronomy pushes me to make as many neat twists to real cosmology as I can think of.
Sometimes it bothers me that people think they have to invent an entirely alien cosmology (meaning getting rid of real cosmology like planets orbiting stars, galaxies, etc...) instead of just adding the desired parts.
For one thing, it makes adding the setting to Dragon*Star difficult. I had to stick Krynn into a fold of space that requires precise astronav plotting to port out of in order to deal with its cosmology...
I also figure that Syberys, Eberron, and Khyber were all proto-planets that smashed into each other in the distant past as they orbited Eberron's sun (I chose to take the Mythology as a figurative aspect than a literal one).
I've also have it set up that Humans are space aliens from somewhere and that the goblinoids are native to Eberron. The City Aventus in my chronology is actually like the Space City Atlantis on Stargate: Atlantis.
I really, really like this. A lot.
Sometimes it bothers me that people think they have to invent an entirely alien cosmology (meaning getting rid of real cosmology like planets orbiting stars, galaxies, etc...) instead of just adding the desired parts. Space is an extremely alien environment, and even without spicing it up with fantasy it definitely can be used.
Not to say that I'm a stickler for realism; when I build cosmologies, my love of astronomy pushes me to make as many neat twists to real cosmology as I can think of.
I'm pretty much the same way. Nice to see someone else who has the same idea.
I've never been against explaining how D&D magic works in scientific terms. Although a lot of people get mad at me. Having played a number of computer Sci-Fi RPGs; it's just fun to add planets and stars and to use real life physics. It adds a new dimension to the game! So, whose to say that Eberron's system is in a colorful nebula?
Eberron has rings, I bet they are a sight to see with the rings reflecting sunlight. Plus, there's the tidal effect the moons has on the seas. Twelve different moons can cause choppy seas. For me, Eberron is pretty much over the top fantastically, but there is a lot that can be explained by science. Put the planet in a real physical universe and there is a thousand possibilities to explore. An alien universe isn't really cool. The real one is far more dynamic and much more fun.