What amount of magic is in your Eberron world? The basic premise outlined in the ECG says:
A world of magic. The setting supposes a world that developed not through the advancement of science, but by the mastery of magic. Magic allows for conveniences and services undreamed of in traditional medieval fantasy. Bound elemental creatures power elemental airships, rail transport, and high-speed ocean vessels. A working class of minor mages uses ritual magic to provide energy and other necessities in towns and cities. Advances in magic item creation have led to everything from self-propelled farming implements to sentient, free-willed constructs.
In general, I'd say that most magic "gimmicks" are employed to help people to do their jobs better. We are still dealing with a late medivial society and human labor is cheap!
So, as a result, I don't have a tavern owner use a magic broom to clean up after the guests leave, because a family member or cheap employee could do that for 20 years before the 240 G broom is amortized.
The same goes for self-cleaning dishes or tables - unless these iteams are also nearly undestructable, I'd say, they go for regular pots and pans.
Magewrights are said to use magic on a day-to-day basis; I'd have magic hammer do the rough cut of a horseshoe, but still fix the horse myself.
Furthermore, I guess the level of magic depends a bit on the country, and the main source of income of the settlement.
In Aundair, I expect the average town (800-1500 citizens) to have a few magic tricks, but it's still pretty expensive to decorate "Ye' Friendly Inne" with a magic lightshow and a musicbox.
Breland, given that there are far less towns of average size, and much more smaller settlements, I'd assume the level of magic gimmicks to be slightly higher, and more orientated towards luxuary.
It'd be common to have a market stand sell mechanical construct birds for the ladies, or colorchanging clothing.
I've asked myself the same question and came up with the following.
In general, I'd say that most magic "gimmicks" are employed to help people to do their jobs better. We are still dealing with a late medivial society and human labor is cheap!
So, as a result, I don't have a tavern owner use a magic broom to clean up after the guests leave, because a family member or cheap employee could do that for 20 years before the 240 G broom is amortized.
You should consider that the Last War probably decreased significantly the able workforce headcount due to death, maiming, drafting etc. pushing business to use magic based alternatives to the human workforce.
Personally I treat magic as something that everybody sees appliances on a common basis, but that except for the most simple things are too expensive for a typical family to buy (even the middleclass). Government, rich nobles and guild houses though do invest in them, especially in appliances that are good for the community as a whole or for a big bussiness. It would be a bit comparitve to early Industrial Revolution era were there were trains, trams, and big machines that helped with production, but that the average man really did not own anything truly revolutionary, just little things such as masterwork tools. So in practice, a reasonably sized village might have a central well with magic that purifies the water and a central ice-room to store perishables for a fee, the typical villager himself would not own anything magical.
Personally I treat magic as something that everybody sees …It would be a bit comparative to early Industrial Revolution era were there were trains, trams, and big machines that helped with production, but that the average man really did not own anything truly revolutionary, just little things such as masterwork tools. So in practice, a reasonably sized village might have a central well with magic that purifies the water and a central ice-room to store perishables for a fee, the typical villager himself would not own anything magical.
That makes sense and paints a pretty good basic picture, but the reason I keep getting hung-up is because of all the many technological advances and scientific achievements that had occurred by the time of the 1800’s (or around the “Industrial Revolution) in the real world. It would make the citizens of Eberron rather advanced technologically (even if that technology was magic-based -- Magetech). Technology, magetech or other, tends to spread rapidly. For example, consider how cell phones advanced communications in “third-world” nations. What I mean is those less industrialized nations didn’t have to go through decades of building infrastructure in order to achieve an advanced telecommunications system. Rather, they just jumped into the 21st century and took advantage of what was available. So on first blush I would think Eberron would leap into a Magetech age of rampant magic, what with the advent of the lightning rail and airships. However, the know-how of that magetech and particularly the ability to perform it is very very limited by the dragonmarks and the Houses. Much more restricted than our real world scientific advances that spread like a plague (not counting legal restrictions on intellectual property). So the magetech would be much more focused on the achievements of those 12 Houses. The war would certainly detract from advances in creature comforts and probably tend more toward inventions applicable to warfare.
So when my PC’s walk into that average tavern in that medium to small-sized town, depending on where they are in Khorvaire, they might only first notice magically lit chandeliers. In a more rural area they might not even see that. The tavern owner might own one or two devices for providing good food/drink and perhaps for cleaning-up, but that’s about all he/she might be able to afford. From a DM’s perspective I guess that translates to me pointing-out at least one not-uncommon magic appliance every game session (I hesitate to say “common”), in order to keep that moderate magetech feel. Some settings might have a lot more, but they should be uncommon. For ideas about those magical appliances I can simply turn to the 12 Houses for ideas, as one of them probably had a hand in it’s development. Does that sound right?
> probably tend more toward inventions applicable to warfare.
It's worth keeping in mind that in the real world, technology that was originally developed for military purposes often ends up becoming consumer technology not long after. (We're communicating by one of those things right now!)
It's worth keeping in mind that in the real world, technology that was originally developed for military purposes often ends up becoming consumer technology not long after. (We're communicating by one of those things right now!)
Yes, but if you consider the power of monopolies, such as Ma Bell (AT&T before the monopoly was broken up -- for a short while). For decades the public was stuck with big old clunky land-line telephones with little or no variation. Once some competition was introduced, the public started seeing a lot more variety and innovation. So consider how clunky and antiquated the internet might still be if it were controled by one global company. The same would apply to the 12 houses, since they don't see very much competition. The bigger question is even without the anti-trust argument, what military magetech would trickle down to the common people, besides the big ones previously mentioned (lightning rail, airships, communications and teleportation -- of which the commoners are mostly aware, but rarely if ever get to use).
(I will leave the discussion alone that competition is not automatically beneficial. That would generate a political discussion that has no place on these boards
)Thanks for the check on the political discussions Madfox11, I agree arguments could easily be made the other way. Also, you’re right about House Phairlan and House Thuranni, but the split in House Cannith is relatively recent (4 years ago). I think the citizens of Khorvaire would only now start seeing external signs of that schism. However, that’s actually an interesting way to demonstrate aspects of the internal house struggle to the players, as they come across competing House Cannith goods.
But what magic would you expect PC’s to see when they walk into that average tavern in that medium to small size town? I say a “tavern,” just as an example of a typical setting I would guess has closer to a median level of magic, with the most poor/rural settings being at one extreme and many rich/commercial settings at the other. I realize taverns vary, but I’m just trying to get a gauge of how much magetech is appropriate to present on a session-to-session basis to my players. I like the Industrial Revolution era analogy, but I was hoping to hear how people translate that into Eberron.
Most of the people do not believe that they'll ever own many magical devices personally, but this might change - which would be a campaign-idea I'll have to play out one day.
Walking into a tavern, I'd expect to see not much magic.
Much like how if one was to walk into a normal tavern of the early 21st century, there wouldn't much technology to be seen.
However, the armies and universities of khorvaire must have a lot of magical appliances and devices. Arcanix in particular (the MIT of khorvaire?).
Much like how if one was to walk into a normal tavern of the early 21st century, there wouldn't much technology to be seen.
However, the armies and universities of khorvaire must have a lot of magical appliances and devices. Arcanix in particular (the MIT of khorvaire?).
We're in the early 21st century now, there's tons of technology in your average tavern (flat screen TV's, lighting, computerized cash registers, cell phones, WiFi). I think Eberron is supposed to be more 18th century-ish. Even if you consider a wild west tavern (which I think might be more 19th century) you still wouldn't see much technology. Maybe gas-light chandeliers in a fancy place.
The thing about the military and universities is that I'd expect very different "appliances and devices" between them, and even more differences from both of those and say a penthouse in the Skyway of Sharn. The universities would have more research/experimental stuff, the military would have state-of-the-art weapons/gear and the penthouse would have the best creature comforts.
* Which is actually one other difference between technology and magic. Most magic is actually rather temporary. Instead of a vacuum cleaner, you would have specific persons building that cleaner which lasts X hours until it disappears again. On the other hand, once you do build that item, it lasts much longer and requires much less maintainance. I wonder, in RL companies do make devices less sturdy then they could since they would otherwise not make enough profit to survive. Would House Cannith actually overprice magic items since they would prefer people to hire their mage wrights to perform the rituals? Or build some kind of temporary magic items that fail automatically after x uses?
I wonder, in RL companies do make devices less sturdy then they could since they would otherwise not make enough profit to survive. Would House Cannith actually overprice magic items since they would prefer people to hire their mage wrights to perform the rituals? Or build some kind of temporary magic items that fail automatically after x uses?
If they are driven by price over quality, then without a doubt. However, considering that if quality were too low or prices too high, non-house mage wrights would become more popular, they probably strike a balance.
That said, while I believe magic is pervasive, impressive magic is quite less common. For instance, many farmers own a magic plow. Produced by magewrights employed by Cannith and Vadalis, these plows are enchanted allow draft animals to work for another hour in each day and stay functional for 50% longer. All of the magic in such an item is quite minor, and certainly nothing that an adventurer wouldn't consider purchasing, but farmers wouldn't work without them.
There are probably magical boots, popular in the north, that are enchanted to stay a little warmer and keep moisture out. They cost twice as much as regular boots, but most people think it's worth it. There are doors that don't jam, clothes that don't tear as easily, and shutters that circulate the air a bit in the summer.
) than a standard PoL setting. Instead, I'm planning to make rituals a lot more common, with what items I do include performing as rital foci.For example, farmers don't have magic plows, but might hire a magewright to come around once a week to speak a charm so the crops grow faster, and streetlights simply extend the duration of the Light cantrip to 10 hours.
Soarsleds are lumps of crystal that increase the speed and reduce the cost of Floating Disk.
I appear to be quite wierd, in that I don't really plan on putting many more magic items into my campaign (If i can ever get the thing started
Not so wierd, as I too prefer to run a lower level of magic. It's just easier to avoid nonsequitors. My group is quick to point out how some impromptu item I described would break the economy of Eberron, provide some extreme advantage to one of the Houses, unravel the universe or some other such nonsense. I figure building up restrictions on the proliferation of magic, makes almost any item explainable. Also, it just seems like the Houses would prefer to provide magic services, which make them money over and over again, as opposed to creating lots of magic items that last forever (or a long long time).
Also, there seems to be some connection with what real world Era folks are trying to emulate in their games. Go back in real-world time far enough and less technology was available to commoners (i.e., 18th century) or not quite as far and technology is everywhere (i.e., 20th century).