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| #1ReasonForTreasonJan 05, 2011 13:39:15 | Hey everyone and a happy new year to each and everyone of you! I'm currently working on my own little Eberron Campaign for my players revolving around the Prophecy, the Emerald Claw, the last days of Cyre and a lot of other things. One of my players (a changeling trying to infiltrate House Phiarlan's Demesne in Wroat on behalf of a Thuranni Elf) came across one of the Bloody Shadows, one of the last remaining heirs of the Paelion family. This charming fellow (called Malazan) was investigating the true reasons for the death of his family, and came across the name of said changeling's Thuranni contact. She was forced to instigate his arrest (with a little help from a Deneith Squad and a member of House Medani acting on behalf of Breland), and now the following question has arisen: How does Breland, or infact any remaining nations, deal with high-class criminals? Malazan held the Thuranni heir hostage, tortured him and hurt one of the Deneith guards, trying to arrest him. In the end, he himself was severly wounded and arrested in a hamelt a couple of miles down the river from Wroat. Where would the Guards take their prisoner? First, they'd probably tend to his wounds by potion or spell, before taking him back to the capital by coach. Because of the equipment and combat prowess of Malazan, he probably won't be dropped off at the next guard-house, but instead taken straight to a high-security-prison in the local vicinity. I feel tempted to let House Kundarak manage, or at least supervise and supply, the majority of the prisons in the five nations. I haven't found any hints (aside from Dreadhold) for this thesis in the "Five Nations" book, or the "Dragonmarked" sourcebook, though. The Deneith guards hand over their prisoner to the staff on site and state his crimes. The guards put him in a cell, notify the local magistrate, who open the case? Having no real idea on medival jurisdiction in general, I hope this is at least vaguely close to the real deal. I'd love to hear your ideas on the process! Being a Bloody Shadow, there won't be much chance to charge him with murder, being a good assassin, he is, but maybe House Thuranni would press charges to get him out of the picture and "deal" with him later? How do you lock someone up, who's in possession of magical weaponry (in this case, a Lifedrinking Armblade-y thing, a couple of poisons and other combat gear)? Anti-magic fields? Arcane locks? Statis chambers? Let's create a legislative system! ![]() |
| #2JuumsJan 05, 2011 14:25:40 | I think you're conflating two separate problems: How the law enforcement authorities handle a dangerous individual and how the courts would handle the same individual are rather different questions. The former is a question of tactics. The constabulary -- or whoever you have handling such things -- in a major urban area like Wroat presumably have a fairly sophisticated understanding of what powerful individuals can do and would have developed appropriate measures for handling them. Upon intake, I suspect all prisoners would immediately be stripped down and issued prison clothing: This is the only surefire way to take care of most hidden weapons and lockpicks, as well as discover any potentially unwanted surprises like dragonmarks. Next, they are shackled and gagged: You never know who's going to be a caster and eliminating both verbal and somatic components means you've covered most of the mischief mages can make. After that, they should be fit to be placed in a cell: The cell, as well as the gag and shackles, need only be mundane to cover most threats. If your cops are better funded, or exceedingly paranoid, arcanely locking shackles, anti-magic manacles or cells, mandatory charming/domination, or even petrification might be in order. (I'm not a fan of those beyond the first one, as they tend to cut against the feel of the setting. They're also one of the reasons why Dreadhold works so well, as it's one of the few places where the entirety of the fantastic prison toolbox can be used.) The latter is a question of procedure. As I am a lawyer by training, my own views on the subject are rather...unique. I'll need a bit longer to mull that over, as I've had quite a few thoughts on the nature and structure of the judiciary in one of the Five Nations. |
| #3nephallimJan 05, 2011 14:30:21 | Well, there are two organizations among the Dragonmarked houses that exist to enforce the Code of Galifar and/or hunt down war criminals. There's the House Denneith Sentinel Marshalls and the Basilisk's Gaze of House Medani. As for prisons, the only one I remember is Dreadhold. I'm not sure there would be full outsourcing of all prisons to House Kundarak. They might just hold them at the King's Citadel. Also, I wouldn't worry about trying to keep things too 'medieval.' Eberron has more in common to the 19th or even early 20th centuries if you're looking for a historical analog. Post World War I Europe is a good place to look for inspiration. Also, medieval court procedure changes a lot depending on when and where you're talking about. For example, a lot changed after the Church denied that God had anything to do with ordeals. Hm. The 3.5E book 'Sharn: City of Towers' has a bit on Brelish court proceedings, if I remember correctly, you could look there. |
| #4ReasonForTreasonJan 05, 2011 17:26:25 | In reverse order of posts, thanks @Nephallim! I totally forgot about that chapter in the Sharn sourcebook. I even have the german one right here, so I don't even have to prance around and translate a lot of terms for my players :-) Just by skimming the chapter I guess it'll be pretty useful. As to your first comment on the Dragonmarked Houses: The Bloody Shadows "are" ruthless killers, but also pretty successful ones, if I assume correctly. If they've managed to stay alive for all those years since the shadow schism, they must have some skill in the silent arts. So, they aren't officially war criminals, but simply murderers - or, in this case, a hostage-taker guilty of resisting arrest. Therefore, the Deneith Sentinels probably won't be bother with Malazan's crimes. House Medani is, in this case, involved, because the characters know Mr. d'Medani and contacted him in order to help him assist in the arrest. As said before, maybe the two elven dragonmarked houses will spring to action - but we'll see. @Juumus: Wohoo, looks like I hit a lawyer. Your anti-magic procedures are already borrowed and implemented - I've only added a Shadowrun "Mage Mask" - a.k.a. a brown, smelly bag over the head. :-) I wanted to use Malazan's arrest as a case study to elaborate further on the process and procedures of policing - the executive - and progess onto the courts - the judiciary. We can ignore the legislative, because the politics of the five nations have been discussed in sourcebooks already, and should not concern us further, your honor. I rest my case (and will now read the chapter in the Sharn sourcebook). ![]() Still, I'd be happy to discuss your ideas and views on the subject. Thanks for your posts, so far! |
| #5morgrumJan 08, 2011 16:27:39 | In Medieval Europe, at leat for a certain period, any crimes commited by clergy would be investigated and punished by an ecclesiastical court, rather than by the normal law court. I suspect something similar happens in Eberron: if a crime is commited by a member of a Dragonmarked House, the Houses will take care of it. Medani / Tharashk / Deneith will be tasked with investigation and capture and the Baron or Seneschal will mete out appropriate punishment (e.g. excoriation, imprisonment in Dreadhold, or reassignment to an enclave in the middle of nowhere). Non-house members will be pursued by local watch officers, with assitance from Medani / Tharash / Deneith if necessary (and deemed worth the cost, you're not going to hire a Sentinal Marshal to catch a pickpocket) and then be tried by the local court. |
| #6ReasonForTreasonJan 09, 2011 7:42:20 | While that is a tempting idea (and one I toyed with for a while), I don't want to give the houses that kind of authority. The Sharn chapter holds quite a lot of useful, although not surprising information. At least in Breland (and most of the other big three nations), the law apparently follows the "Code of Galifar", in essence a federal constitution. An accused is innocent until proven otherwise, must be treated according to regulations, has the right to face his accuser and so forth. The Houses fall under this Code as well, if their enclaves are located in the 5 Nations. House Ghallanda being the only exception, because the inns and taverns are effectively neutral ground and can not be entered by the law. And here I've just had a neat idea for a non-violent Phiarlan/Thuranni contract: Warcriminal hides in a House Ghallanda enclave and there has to be... no, not a reckoning, but the "great Defenestration of Sharn". |
| #7ColmarrJan 11, 2011 0:20:57 | I've only added a Shadowrun "Mage Mask" - a.k.a. a brown, smelly bag over the head If you're playing 4e, the smelly bag is crucial, especially with casters and eladrin. 4e teleport is line of sight, so an opaque bag secured over the prisoner's head prevents it entirely. There are some exceptions to the line of sight requirement, but they all come from rituals, and its pretty easy to prevent ritual use in a prison. |
| #8Madfox11Jan 11, 2011 6:41:47 | While that is a tempting idea (and one I toyed with for a while), I don't want to give the houses that kind of authority. While I agree that the Houses likely do not have official jurisdiction, it is probably how things work in practice. I know that novels are not canon, but there are a couple of scenes where the local House leader deals with a crime without involving the authorities. As long as the crimes of the House members are not too public, it is good PR to keep it out of the public. And considering the role of House Deneith as the Sentinel Marshels, Tharask as bounty hunters and Midani as inquisitives, I suspect the Houses have a LOT of influence on justice in the Five Nations. |
| #9morgrumJan 12, 2011 14:36:20 | While that is a tempting idea (and one I toyed with for a while), I don't want to give the houses that kind of authority. Don't forget that the Houses only become involved if they are hired by the local authorities, so that limits their influence. I personally suspect that the Korth Edicts pose quite a few limits on the applicability of the Code of Galifar to House business, but there is of course no need for that to be true in RFT's Eberron. It also wouldn't surprise me if the non-marked noble families also dealt with crime internally (perhaps moreso in, say, Karnath, than in Breland). Finally, how is Defenestration a non-violent contract? Oh and Sharn it probably doesn't work as well, what with all the featherfall enchanments (case of picking the right window of course). |
| #10ReasonForTreasonJan 13, 2011 6:39:09 | The defenestration bit: He/she/it would just have to leave the premises of the House Ghallandra enclave - you can also call out of a cellar window. :-) The fall shouldn't even kill the target, just get it out of the house. |
| #11OgiwanJan 13, 2011 7:58:15 | Perhaps the defenestrated entity would fall into a snowbank? |