Keeper of the Flame Selection

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

weenog42

Sep 19, 2009 0:06:28

What is the selection process for the Keeper of the Flame?  I couldn't find anything in the campaign guide.  I have the 3.5 resources, but have yet to peruse them.  Hopefully someone here can help narrow the search.

#2

AvonRekaes

Sep 19, 2009 1:15:43

I believe Five Nations covers this in the Thrane chapter. If I recall, it's more or less the Flame itself who choses a new one, and they make themselves rather apparent and it's then later verified by the church or not.


Jaela, for instance, was suspected of being the next keeper due to her oracular abilities, sniffing out evil cultists that she claimed the Flame told her where to find. Later, her claim was verified by the church, and the previous Keeper stepped down, I believe.

#3

Alex_

Sep 19, 2009 11:23:27

  I like to think of the Keeper as the Daili Lama. One dies, but the spirit of the flame comes to embody a new form and the search begins for that golden child.  You investigate local reports of children displaying remarkable wisdom or powers for their age and you investigate, administering certain tests to determine if they really are the next chosen one.

#4

lyran

Sep 19, 2009 12:52:48


  I like to think of the Keeper as the Daili Lama. One dies, but the spirit of the flame comes to embody a new form and the search begins for that golden child.  You investigate local reports of children displaying remarkable wisdom or powers for their age and you investigate, administering certain tests to determine if they really are the next chosen one.





My thoughts exactly. This, in my opinion, is the best idea for picking a new keeper. It also ads a sense of spirituality to it. The Flame embodys itself in a "chosen one".
#5

jtrowell

Sep 21, 2009 7:11:06


  I like to think of the Keeper as the Daili Lama. One dies, but the spirit of the flame comes to embody a new form and the search begins for that golden child.  You investigate local reports of children displaying remarkable wisdom or powers for their age and you investigate, administering certain tests to determine if they really are the next chosen one.




 


Wasn't there a story about the previous keeper being corrupted by the other voice of the flame and turned to stone ? But it might have been only an idea from someone on those forums and isn't canon, I don't have the books with me now to check.


Someone can confirm ?

#6

paideia

Sep 21, 2009 8:26:50

I'm still a little unclear on quoting from D&D books, but until someone from Wizards intervenes, here goes:

According to Five Nations:


"The spiritual leader of the Church of the Silver Flame has always been a person - usually a human - gifted with visions. The council of Cardinals receives reports of visionaries throughout the land, choosing one to act as the intermediary between the Voice of the Silver Flame and the people of Thrane. A committee sifts through the charlatans and false seers to finde the "chosen one", although more often than not, fate finds a way for this spiritual leader to reveal himself or herself to Flamekeep's ruling body."


Acording to Faiths of Eberron:


"This individual serves as the intermediary between the Voice of the Silver Flame nad the Diet of Cardinals. The Keeper is not elected but is called by the Voice."


These two statements are not necessarily contradictory. The "calling" could very well be the visions spoken of in Five Nations. The only difference is how much weight you put on the committee's influence.


Regarding the statement about Dalai Lama and reincarnation this goes directly against the teachings of the Silver Flame. They believe that every birth brings a new soul (a spark of the Divine) into the world, Those who follow the Silver Flame join with it after death. Everyone else goes to Dolurrh. See Faiths of Eberron pg. 57-58.

#7

Alex_

Sep 21, 2009 11:31:49



  I like to think of the Keeper as the Daili Lama. One dies, but the spirit of the flame comes to embody a new form and the search begins for that golden child.  You investigate local reports of children displaying remarkable wisdom or powers for their age and you investigate, administering certain tests to determine if they really are the next chosen one.




 


Wasn't there a story about the previous keeper being corrupted by the other voice of the flame and turned to stone ? But it might have been only an idea from someone on those forums and isn't canon, I don't have the books with me now to check.


Someone can confirm ?




  I think it's in Faiths of Eberron.  I don't think she was selected as a Keeper, but she was very popular and had a following who believed she was.  She was turned to stone and imprisoned in Dreadhold.

#8

sarivar

Sep 21, 2009 11:38:57

You are correct. Her name was Melysse Miron and she challenged the established Keeper about 500 years ago. She was a pledged agent of the Shadow in the Flame.


You can find other details on Faith of Eberron page 70.

#9

Alex_

Sep 21, 2009 11:52:41


Regarding the statement about Dalai Lama and reincarnation this goes directly against the teachings of the Silver Flame. They believe that every birth brings a new soul (a spark of the Divine) into the world, Those who follow the Silver Flame join with it after death. Everyone else goes to Dolurrh. See Faiths of Eberron pg. 57-58.




  When making the comparisons to the Dalai Lama, I was thinking less about the soul actually moving from body to body, but the call and the will of the flame.  No matter where you come from or who you are, if two people hear the call and will of the flame -which itself does not die and does not change- they will display similar traits that likewise do not die and do not change.  Different souls, but inspired and driven by the same immortal divine source.


   And  the tests would include uncovering those traits, abilities, or knowledge that only someone hosting such a divine influence could display.  Not so much finding the same possessions.  Rather,  if Keeper ABC always used to say/do one thing, and after his death another child somewhere starts saying/doing the same thing, and they've never met each other in their life, they may have a connection in their bond to the Flame.