Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 werebat Aug 10, 2008 11:00:18	So, my Artificer just hit level 5 and we've got some time on our hands. I was thinking of trying to make a dedicated wright homunculus, but after reading the rules I'm confused about the UMD check DCs involved. For most items, the UMD check needed to emulate a spell seems to be 20 plus the caster level of the item. This seems to be true regardless of the spell level (this is from the Artificer section in ECS). Homunculi require emulation of three different spells, including Mage Eye, which is a 4th level spell. However, homunculi do not have caster levels in the sense that other magic items do. So, what is the target DC to make to emulate a homunculus' three required spells? Do I just use the minimum caster level required to cast the spell (in the case of Mage Eye, this would be 7th, requiring a DC 27 UMD check which means I'm not going to be trying this any time soon)? That seems a bit steep compared to the checks required to make other items but I can't think of what else would make sense. Any official rulings on this? - Ron ^*^
#2 rocksa13 Aug 10, 2008 11:31:28	Well, IIRC, there was something about the artificer getting craft construct a level earlier than he'd be able to emulate Mage Eye (or maybe Arcane something, books are not in hand and I'm half asleep) the work around for it though is that you can have a mage buddy who can actually cast the spell, work with you on the construct and basically cast the spells for you.
#3 werebat Aug 10, 2008 14:46:46	Well, IIRC, there was something about the artificer getting craft construct a level earlier than he'd be able to emulate Mage Eye (or maybe Arcane something, books are not in hand and I'm half asleep) the work around for it though is that you can have a mage buddy who can actually cast the spell, work with you on the construct and basically cast the spells for you. This could only happen if you were to require a DC 27 UMD check based on the artificer attempting to be a 7th level caster casting a 4th level spell. This is NOT the way the ECS describes artificers emulating spells to craft magic items. ECS page 32, Item Creation: "To create a bottle of air (caster level 7th), [the artificer] would need a check result of 27 or higher to emulate the water breating prerequisite." Water Breathing is a 3rd level spell on every list it appears on in the PHB. Thus, the DC is clearly based on the CL of the item rather than the minimum caster level required to cast the spell. If it were based on the MCL, then the DC would only be 25 (5th level caster to cast a 3rd level spell). Again, though, we're left with the problem of homunculii having no Caster Level, unlike magic items. As you point out, it would seem to be a little silly for the Artificer to get an ability that they can't use until they gain later levels. So how does this work, exactly? Has it ever been clarified? As it stands, if I need to make a DC 27 UMD check in order to make a homunculus, I'm not going to bother trying for a while. I've currently got a +9 UMD check. - Ron ^*^
#4 mystrich Aug 10, 2008 19:46:28	"To create a bottle of air (caster level 7th), [the artificer] would need a check result of 27 or higher to emulate the water breating prerequisite." Bottles of air require a 7th level caster to cast water breathing, hence, you're emulating a 7th level caster's water breathing spell, not just a water breathing spell. If the item had no CL requirement, then it would just be the minimum caster level. I've currently got a +9 UMD check. What level are you? By 2nd level, if you're an artificer, you should have a +9 or higher. It's a staple of the class to put in max ranks and have a high charisma. 5 ranks in spellcraft gives you an additional +2, and having magical aptitude/skill focus (UMD) are very good ideas.
#5 werebat Aug 11, 2008 9:54:11	Bottles of air require a 7th level caster to cast water breathing, hence, you're emulating a 7th level caster's water breathing spell, not just a water breathing spell. If the item had no CL requirement, then it would just be the minimum caster level. That sounds like a very reasonable house rule, but it isn't mentioned anywhere in the book that I can see. What level are you? By 2nd level, if you're an artificer, you should have a +9 or higher. It's a staple of the class to put in max ranks and have a high charisma. 5 ranks in spellcraft gives you an additional +2, and having magical aptitude/skill focus (UMD) are very good ideas. 5th level now, with a Cha of 12. 8 ranks plus 1 = 9. I put my high stat into Int and a 14 into Cha (goblins get a -2 Cha though). Spellcraft only helps your UMD with scrolls. SF is great until the mid-high levels when it is a waste. Circlet of Persuasion is always a good idea though. I'll probably just get one of those before trying to make a homunculous. - Ron ^*^
#6 mystrich Aug 11, 2008 18:52:59	Ouch. You might want to go for Cloak of Charisma, circlet of persuasion, or if the DM allows, an item that gives +5 to UMD checks (would cost 2500).
#7 werebat Aug 12, 2008 0:11:03	Ouch. You might want to go for Cloak of Charisma, circlet of persuasion, or if the DM allows, an item that gives +5 to UMD checks (would cost 2500). I'll definitely be going for a CoC as well as a CoP, but I doubt this DM will allow a +5 UMD item (although he's playing an Artificer in my E6 game as well so who knows?) :D Meanwhile, is there in fact any official word that the houserule presented above is canonical? It makes sense but again I don't see it spelled out anywhere. And I'm sure there must be an item somewhere with a CL lower than the minimum CL required to cast one of its prerequisite spells. - Ron ^*^
#8 ellessen Dec 11, 2010 18:08:57	If you are asking about an item that gives a +X bonus to Y skill yes it is canonical. It is described on one of the item creation charts in the DMG. The price for a +5 to a skill is 2500. Since it is not one of the standard items that puts it fully into the realm of the DM approving it. He would also need to decide what body slot would most likely take the item. I would think head or face, possibly hands. You can actually use that chart to make any level skill bonus in an item it just gets more expensive.
#9 Zomg_Zombies Oct 10, 2013 20:17:14	werebat wrote: