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| #1byzcathFeb 08, 2011 20:27:13 | Has anyone worked out names for the various military units from the five Nations? We have two mercenary groups, the Blademarks from House Denith and the Liondrake's Roar from House Tharashk. The Ninth Wands from Aundair (now living in Stormreach) so I guess we could call the military units from Aundair Wands with a number. How about the other nations? Especially Cyre? I have two characters, one a commando type (fighter with sneak of shadows feat (planning on the battle commando paragon path from the Quintessential Fighter book) and the other a fighter with the arcane initiate feat. I was thinking of calling the commando unit the Third Cyran Commandos (they would be company sized) but what of the regular units for the other fighter. Thanks! |
| #2OgiwanFeb 09, 2011 15:47:00 | The designation that I've come across for Karrnathi undead units is, "Risen Patriots." It proved quite popular with my players. Mix it with other unit designators as wanted; Royal, Grenadiers (remember, there are alchemical grenades!), Foot(e), etc. I also see Karrnathi units being the most "traditional" in terms of unit designations; the Vedykar Lancers (featured in Blood and Honor) are a unit of cavalrymen from Vedykar. If a second unit of lancers was raised from Vedykar, it would be the "2nd Vedykar Lancers." Most "normal" foot units would probably be simply "# Regiment of [whatever]." Another of the establish units, though, was the elite Iron Band. Breland, I can see having an interesting mix of unit names. One of the other "established" units is the Brelish Ninth Brigade; this is the bear cavalry unit featured in Dragonmarked. Breland is so large that I can see units being named after what region they are from in Breland, similar to how American Civil War units were named after their states. I have no idea what these regions would be, though. The last "named" unit of Breland would be the Redcloack Battalion (or Brigade, forget which.) Concerning Aundairan units, I doubt that every Aundarian unit has a "Wands" designator. In all liklihood, the Ninth Wands is a unit of former Aundarian wizards. It should be noted that Aundair was noted for having large amounts of wizards, more so than other armies. It is probably feasible that Aundairan wizards were numerous to be concentrated in platoon, and possibly even company, sized elements, whereas most other combatants (perhaps save Cyre) only had enough wizards (and maybe magewrights) to sprinkle them in units, or perhaps have a Wands unit as a upper-echelon asset. However, I have no idea what, aside from, "Aundarian," Aundarian units would use to designate themselves. My conception of Cyrean armed forces is that, by and large, they were merc forces, with leavenings of volunteer units. I figure these volunteer units may choose to (or have to) pay for their own equipment, and as such, may spring for better (or flashier) equipment. Similar to the various Zouave units in the American Civil War; they weren't actually any better trained or equipped, they just had baggy pants and an ego. Regardless, one of the Cyrean establish units is the, "Storm Cavaliers," which is a name I love. You have to figure out where the "Storm" fits in, though. Cyrean units may have more unique names; a unit of noblemen may call themselves "the Green and Golds" (the colors of the Cyrean crest), while a unit of Cyrean Silver Flame worshippers may simply call themselves, "the Cyrean Flamebearers." Edit: One of my friends brought up an interesting point. Remember that Mishann was the proper heir to the Throne of Galifar. So, it is more than possible that Cyre had a Foreign Legion. Forge of War says that Thraneish units generally did not concern themselves with unit identification below the army level. Take that as you will. |
| #3byzcathFeb 09, 2011 17:32:10 | Thanks for some ideas but a point of clarification. You must not have a copy of Stormreach. The Ninth Wands are not a small group of elite wizards. At the end of the last war Aundair disbanded some military units. One unit of elite infintry, the Queen's Ninth Wands, did not wish to disband. They traveled to Stormreach to continue to fight the war and work with Adal ir'Wynarn, the Minister of Magic in Aundair. Their current size is about 30 members (using v3.5 they are either warrior 3/magewright 1 or wizard 3). |
| #4OgiwanFeb 09, 2011 19:15:54 | Thanks for some ideas but a point of clarification. I do have Stormreach. The Ninth Wands is, indeed, a small unit. With their current strength, they are roughly a platoon-sized force. Even if we assume that 2/3 or 3/4 of the unit disbanded, the Ninth Wands at full strength would still be a company-sized element. That is a small unit. In terms of power, its not, but in terms of manpower, well, it is. Now, I never said the Ninth Wands had to be an elite group of wizards. You read what I didn't say. To be fair, I didn't explain how I envisioned usage of magic in the Last War. For simplicity's sake, I'll refer to any spellcaster as a wizard. Like I said, some armies may have had a wizard or two in units, to give them a little extra oomph. The bulk of the fighting would have been done with conventional arms. If wizards were concentrated in units, as one would want to concentrate tanks to employ them to best effect, there would not be a lot of these units, and as such, they would be concentrated at higher echelons. For example, a Brelish division might have a Wands company as one of its assets, alongside its cavalry battalion or what have you. An Aundarian force, though, would be able to concentrate these units at lower levels. For example, an Aundarian brigade, or perhaps even a battalion, might have a Wands company (or platoon) as one of its assets. Having magic-users massed in units at lower levels is a distinct advantage, and one that makes sense for the magic-heavy forces of Aundair to capitalize upon. |
| #5Madfox11Feb 10, 2011 3:27:49 | Well, such a wand unit does not necessarily consists of all wizards. It might very well be a core unit of wizards/artificers/magewrites with their support both bodyguards, assistants and the wagons with the components. |
| #6OgiwanFeb 10, 2011 8:52:21 | An excellent point, Madfox. edit: But, similar to how Armored divisions have organic artillery and infantry units, the main point of an Armored division is the employment of armor. For a Wands unit, while they (probably will) have organic non-magical support, the main point of a Wands unit is the employment of spellcasting. Other units will still need to be established to employ infantry or cavalry, and while these may have organic magical support, they will not be the point of the unit. They will be a Company of Horse (or Infantry, or Foot, or whatever) with organic magical support. tl;dr: Not every unit in Aundair's army is designated, "Wands". Oh, how could I forget? In Forge of War, two of the "unique" units for Aundair were the Knights Arcane and the Knight Phantoms. |
| #7byzcathFeb 11, 2011 21:02:05 | An excellent point, Madfox. I think it is safe to say that there were at least nine units of the Queen's Wands. Also, looking to Stormreach again, there are the 30 basic members of the unit that are (again using v3.5) either Warrior 3/Magewright 1 or Wizard 3. The leadership as listed consits of a Wizard 13, a Wizard 5, and a Duskblade 5. This would support your idea of this being a wizard unit except for the line in Stormreach calling this an "elite infantry unit". Aundair is full of wizards, it is not out of place to think they might use them as infantry. Also the Knight Phantom are the light cavalry of the Knights Arcane. Could easily see resurrecting the Knight Phantom by giving them access to a feat that allows them to cast the phantom steed feat without cost twice a day. |
| #8OgiwanFeb 11, 2011 21:50:50 |
I think that's a safe bet, yes. Well, unless they did some really funky numbering system.....As you can see here, the US Army has some oddly numbered divisions. Also, looking to Stormreach again, there are the 30 basic members of the unit that are (again using v3.5) either Warrior 3/Magewright 1 or Wizard 3. The leadership as listed consits of a Wizard 13, a Wizard 5, and a Duskblade 5. This would support your idea of this being a wizard unit except for the line in Stormreach calling this an "elite infantry unit". One of the problems with military sci-fi writers is that, sometimes, they have no idea what they are talking about. A good majority of fiction writers, be they "normal" fiction, sci-fi, or fantasy, simply do not know enough about military affairs to write competently or clearly. In this case, it seems fairly obvious to me that calling them "an elite infantry unit" is an inability to write clearly. They are infantry because, to the author, they are not cavalry, and they are too low-level to refer to as, "an elite unit of spellcasters." The second problem is that I'm not sure you grasp the scale of military units, and the commonality of people able to use magic. Certainly, there are more low-level casters in Eberron than in other fantasy settings, but there aren't enough for Eberron to be "high magic", where everybody is magical. Eternal Wands were developed so that magewrights could contribute meaningfully to spellcasting operations; the inference is that there were not enough wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc. already to do, so they had to figure out how to make magewrights (who are more common, but less capable) able to contribute. Hence, the eternal wands. Now, do you have Forge of War? While it may be a very poor source in terms of actualities (a Mror regiment comes out to about 96 dwarves, I believe? Ludicrously small.), it at least makes an effort to show the organization, composition, and doctrinal differences of Khorvairan forces. If we look at Aundair's army (p. 47-48), we see that the largest arcane unit type is an arcane company, usually acting as one of three companies in a regiment. I'm far too lazy to calculate the TO&E, but that arcane company is what I assume the Ninth Wands was based off of, though I also assume that some people in the unit did decide to take up farming afterwords. Nevertheless, Forge of War does show that Aundairan units have more arcane support organic to their units (i.e. arcane companies, whereas at best, other armies have arcane squads). In terms of scale, though, armies are composed of a crapload of people. Granted, again, Forge of War errs on the low side of calculating force strengths, but to be fair, the original ECS had far too few people for the size of Khorvaire. Before the Forum Apocalypse, a poster, Ocatvius, I believe, calculated that even if you increased the populations tenfold, Khorvaire would still be really sparsly populated. Also the Knight Phantom are the light cavalry of the Knights Arcane. Well spotted. I was going to bring up the other unique units from Forge of War up, but after looking at them, by and large they were all of the "strike team" variant, and not really what I was looking for. So, I just left it with the Knights Arcane/Phantom. Could easily see resurrecting the Knight Phantom by giving them access to a feat that allows them to cast the phantom steed feat without cost twice a day. Well said. That could be cool.....aaaand now I want to run a Knight Phantom. I hate you. |
| #9blackmage88Feb 16, 2011 19:27:03 | I happened to be running through Forge of War taking notes, so here are at least most of the names of various units by country, as I came across them. Aundair Sky Knights (dragonhawk riders) -First Company of the Sky -King's Regiment of Dragonhawks Grand Army of Liberation (tried to liberate Thaliost) Knights Arcane Fairhaven Wands Stormhome Wands Arcane Foot (magewrights) Army of Western Pacification (attempted to invade the Reaches) Breland Queen's/King's Swords Brelish Rangers Great Army of Wroat Wroat Wands Sharn Towers (wands) Ardev Dragoons Grey Geese (archers) Blues & Irons (dragoons) Roses of Sharn (all-female wands) Westwind Riders Brelish First Dragoons of Wroat Cyre First Metrol Wands Second Metrol Wands Home Guard of Cyre (heavy infantry) Oak and Ash Regiment (heavy foot) Kalazar Horse Brigade Making First Legion Making Fourth Legion Saerun Pike Champions of the Bell; (infiltrators/raiders/assassins) Iron Tide (elite 'target-and-destroy' warforged squad) Karnnath Legions of Atur (Undead, at least 4:, First Atur Legion, Second Atur Legion, and so on) Eastern Star Legion (won the Second Battle of the Talenta Plains) Conquerer's Host (royal guards) Various Knightly Orders, based in different cities and holding various roles. Order of the: -Adamant Fang (Vedykar) -Blackened Sky (Karrlakton) -Conquering Fist (Vulyar/Korth) -Emerald Claw (Korth) -Inviolate Way (Rekkenmark) -Onyx Skull (Atur) City of Night Regiment (undead cavalry) Thunder Riders (halfling scouts) White Lions of Korth (city garrison) Bastion of Frozen Flesh (ambush undead unit) Hands of Karrnath (four-man undead assassin teams) Thrane Knights of Thrane Wyvernriders Silver Legion Argent Order Pure Legion/Legion of the Pure Legion of Perpetual Adoration The Northern and Southern Crusades Third Athandra (veteran archers) Order of the Pure (provided 'silver pyromancers') Army of the Ascended Righteous Legion Legion of True Brethren Army of the Eastern Crusade Avenging Hand of the Eternal Flame (paladins order) Exultant Guards (elite heavy foot) Crown Knights The Red Sails (marine unit) ---------------------------------------- No doubt I missed a good few, and I haven't gone on to check up on the mercenary units yet, but hopefully this is helpful or interesting to somebody. Obviously the list of units in Forge of War isn't all-inclusive, even among what it covers (Making's First and Fourth Legions are mentioned, for instance; the Second and Third have to exist, but still they are never brought up). Certainly only the interesting units in the interesting battles are named; the majority of participants in a given battle are usually just numbered and classified. Personal thoughts: Most of the nations seem to have, for lack of a better term, quirky units with very personalized-sounding names (Roses of Sharn, Oak and Ash Regiment, the Red Sails, the various knightly orders in Karrnath) and then more normalized units like Legions. Thrane in particular doesn't name too many units aside from their massive mob armies. Cyre likes to name units based on city of origin and seems to be less flashy with its names than the others, outside of elite squads like the Champions of the Bell and the Iron Tide. Aundair usually names their Wands by city of origin and the odd flamboyantly named yet doomed to failure army. Note that the Wardens of the Wood apparently used to be a unit for them early in the War. Breland's a bit of everything: city of origin units, elite yet small forces, quirkily named regulars. Karrnath's all about the Orders. I didn't know there were that many of the darn things. |
| #10OgiwanFeb 17, 2011 9:27:21 | Kudos for putting together that list. My biggest problem with Forge of War is that the majority of the "units" that are detailed are, essentially, squads. I would love to know more about the Cyrean Storm Cavaliers, or the Grey Geese (aside from just knowing that "They're archers". ...hmm. Thinking about it, playing a dragoon is viable. Just need a warhorse, but don't need to use it on the battlefield....much more of a fluff thing.... |
| #11morgrumFeb 20, 2011 2:31:16 |
First, allow me to add my kudos for that list. Regarding the quirky names, I'm currently reading a book on the British Empire. One of the things it mentions is that English regiments (circa the Boer War at least) had nicknames such as "Bethune's Buccaneers", "the Imperial Light Looters" and the "Pipe Cleaners". The last were officially the South African Light Horse, but were nicknamed for the feathers in their hats. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened in Eberron. For the more feudal countries (i.e. Aundair & Karrnath) I would also expect units named after the noble who raised them or his/her estate. E.g. "Ir'Darnon's Heavy Foot", "Daskarnan Light Horse" |
| #12DoctorBadWolfJun 15, 2015 4:19:05 | I always imagine Cyre having a greater number of smaller, specialized units, shored up by mercenaries and volunteers. I imagine many of those specialized units being made up of minor casters like rangers, bards, artificers, etc and magical non casters like monks and assassins and people who are basically rogues with high UMD in some editions, or Arcane Tricksters in 5e. Lots of useful magical kit, magical/alchemical grenadiers, people who can jump over or pass through walls, even some warlocks. Lots of the oddball classes and builds, basically, so perfect fodder for Cyran adventurers who were out of country during the Mourning, probably on mission somewhere.
Just some thoughts on what I think about when coming up with new names for Cyran military units. |
| #13OgiwanJul 09, 2015 18:04:06 | Oh man, this thread is a blast from the past. It's great, though, since I'm starting another campaign.
But, to contribute to the thread.....in Five Nations, doesn't it say that the guards of Korth were active-duty? White Lions or some such? |