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Need Warforged Phalanx Ideas

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
warweaver
Dec 17, 2008 19:51:04 Hey folks. Wasn't sure if this would be better here or in the Eberron forum, but since that one's technically 4e and I need 3e ideas, I'll give it a shot.

I plan on working up a kind of warforged phalanx as an enemy soon. Has anyone done this, or have good ideas? What would your brutally cold, emotionless, efficient military unit be equipped with and do?

In particular I was thinking of having a shield wall of 'forged with tower shields blocking the PCs, more with reach weapons, and behind them a few artillery guys with pop-out wands and a Repair spell or two for their damaged comrades.

However I can't remember which books had cool shield, phalanx, or warforged feats, PrCs, etc. that would work for this. Any help remembering that would also be welcome.

Note that whatever you hit on doesn't have to be OP or CO, just look cool and scary. :P

EDIT: I will continue to edit this with what I've compiled so far, as a resource to me and others interested.

____________________________What I Have So Far (random ideas)_____________________________

(geared toward a CR 9 encounter)

"Front Row Warforged" Fighter 6 (Knight?) (PHB2)

Equipment: Pitspawned (DMG2) Tower Shield + Shortspear or Trident

Feats: Formation Expert (tactical)(CW), Phalanx Fighting (only good w/ heavy shield & light weapon, but maybe modified)(CW), Adamantine Body (ECS/MM3), Greater Resiliency (CW), Shield Wall (HoB), Block Arrow (HoB), Intimidating Strike (PHB2), Shield Specialization (PHB2), Shield Ward (PHB2),

Teamwork Benefits: Team Shield Maneuver (Immediate; push teammate at -1 or lower 10 ft.).

"Back Row Warforged" Warmage 6 (CA) (Warlock?) (CA)

Equipment: Wands (or Eldritch Blast), +1 Twilight Composite Plating

Feats: Mithral Body (ECS/MM3), (Ritual Blood Bonds (yeah yeah I know they don't technically have "blood" :P)(PHB2)

Spells: Repair spells, swift spells

(separate encounter)

"Warforged Indiana Jones-Killer" Bbn 1 / Ftr 4 / Warforged Juggernaut 4 (ECS)

Equipment: Scary-Lookin' Spiked Shield...Scary-Lookin' Spiked Everything, Actually

Feats: Adamantine Body, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Blood-Spiked Charger (PHB2), Cometary Collision (PHB2), Run, Fleet of Foot (CW)
#2
ravengraygem
Dec 17, 2008 20:48:38 Phalanx Fighting was in Lords of Darkness, a 3.0 FR sourcebook. Gave AC bonus for using (a certain type of, I think) shield and sword. And if an ally with 5 feet had that feat and qualified for the bonus, then both got an additional AC bonus. I know that Phalanx Fighting was reprinted in one of the 3.5 books, but not a clue as to where.

There were also a few rather neat shield feats in Sword and Fist, a 3.0 character option book, and I think most of these were reprinted as well.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I'm not even close to my books at the moment, so I can't give you any details.
#3
m-bark
Dec 18, 2008 3:35:20
Phalanx Fighting was in Lords of Darkness, a 3.0 FR sourcebook. Gave AC bonus for using (a certain type of, I think) shield and sword.

That one was reprinted, I believe in one of the Complete books. You need to wield a heavy shield and a light weapon, then you'll grant a +1 AC bonus to people standing next to you. (Perhaps this bonus was only limited to others wielding heavy shields and light weapons, and I don't recall if it was cumulative or no.)
#4
Ogiwan
Dec 21, 2008 22:13:25 It was, and it was Complete Warrior, IIRC.

I remember that it bothered me because it had "Phalanx" in the title, but required the use of a large shield and light weapon.....which isn't a phalanx.

A Phalanx is a dense array of hoplites, the main weapon for them being a spear. A spear is not a light weapon.

Rather, the large-shield-and-light-weapon (i.e. large shield and short sword) is far more like a Roman legionnaire. Which, to be fair, was initially (as in, before even the Punic Wars) based on the hoplite/phalanx.

Now, if you want a true Phalanx, they'd have to have a large shield, spear (10 foot reach), and longsword. However, that would require monkeying around with the equipments, making a new shield, spear, or what have you. Rather, I would just go with a block of 'forged with longspears and longswords. When the PCs move in for melee combat, they get poked by a total of 6 spears; next round, it will be 3 longswords and 3 spears. To cover the flanks and harass long-ranged PCs, you could have your own light infantry, wielding bows or javelins.

Of course, this hinges on a dense formation of 'forged pikers to provide the formation feel, which is horribly vulnerable to the AoE powers of certain classes. Furthermore, to get the number of enemies needed, you go beyond the 8 enemies codified in the (rather wonky) CR system.

I wanted to do a similar thing with the Dhakaanis. Capture the feel of the pre-Galifaran Dhakaani disciplined legions, Bugbear heavy infantry moving in bristling walls of spearpoints, Hobgoblin medium infantry on the flanks, ready to throw javelins and charge in with large shield and short sword, and with Goblin light cavalry and light infantry skirmishing and screening the flanks.
#5
magicchupacabra
Dec 24, 2008 11:23:49 I would see this post after I'm 4 hours away from my books.

One thing to remember if you're going with a shield wall formation, is to have the shield wall fight defensively. Also if you look for it, in one of the books there is a feat tree that you can build up through that will let you take the total defense action and still threaten an area. That could be more useful for what will basically be cannon fodder for your players to kill. Swap out a feat for expertise and you should be able to crank the AC up into the 30s for that shield wall. (they likely won't be able to hit much though like that)

I think your forge setup should also look at having a mid row of reach weapon users. Long spears work fine there. You can also have the shield wall use aid another to give the spear fighters a better chance of hitting. Doing this though you might want to lower the levels down of the forge a bit to keep it in the target of what you're wanting to do.

Also your back row warforged need teamwork benefits as well. Look at the fun teamwork thing for spells. You can make the saves a bit more difficult with some of them.

Another thing to keep in mind is if the front wall is taking heavy damage, have the second row, if you use them, use aid another to boost the front rows AC up. Then have your back row move in to apply repair spells to the damaged forged. (remember you can share a space with another medium creature but it just gives you penalties to AC and attack)

Another thing to consider is lowering the levels of the forged to increase the number of forged that you can use and still challenge the party. Doing this your forged each has lower HP and BAB, but you can vary out the equipment more and with enough forged forming a shield wall you'll likely not have to worry about the wall being breached. With that you just have the ones not involved in the wall (at least 10 of them) take up a formation and use missile weapons (short and long bows work well) for volley fire. You could again have nearby forged to use the aid another action to boost the AC up for return fire from the PCs.

That's all I got right now without the books here. Hope it proves useful.
#6
warweaver
Dec 25, 2008 16:04:12 That it does, mon ami! Though I noticed your post after the fact, the tactics I used in combat matched pretty much exactly what you said.

It turned out to be a fun and surprisingly challenging combat for a bunch of level 8-9's, despite fighting enemies much lower than them.

I think I got the First Wall Forged AC past 30 for a bit - and entirely without magic. The players were especially surprised when they proved so strong against the Archivist's ray spells and the Duskblade chain-tripper.

Shield Ward is a beautiful, beautiful feat...especially considering all the other feats granted increased shield bonuses to AC (which thus also counted for Touch AC and vs Trip/Bull Rush/Grapple).

Much fun was had, and the PCs are now even more resolved to destroy this demon-controlled Warforged factory - before it generates enough squads to wipe out their (lower level) fellow soldiers with its awesomeness. :P
#7
magicchupacabra
Dec 25, 2008 18:15:33 Awesome on the encounter success there.

If you want some more fun, look into building some warforged shock troopers.

And never forget the greatness that one can do with a warforged titan, a group of supporting forged, and a low level artificer type with a wand with some decent level repair spells in it.

:evillaugh

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 warweaver Dec 17, 2008 19:51:04	Hey folks. Wasn't sure if this would be better here or in the Eberron forum, but since that one's technically 4e and I need 3e ideas, I'll give it a shot. I plan on working up a kind of warforged phalanx as an enemy soon. Has anyone done this, or have good ideas? What would your brutally cold, emotionless, efficient military unit be equipped with and do? In particular I was thinking of having a shield wall of 'forged with tower shields blocking the PCs, more with reach weapons, and behind them a few artillery guys with pop-out wands and a Repair spell or two for their damaged comrades. However I can't remember which books had cool shield, phalanx, or warforged feats, PrCs, etc. that would work for this. Any help remembering that would also be welcome. Note that whatever you hit on doesn't have to be OP or CO, just look cool and scary. :P EDIT: I will continue to edit this with what I've compiled so far, as a resource to me and others interested. ____________________________What I Have So Far (random ideas)_____________________________ (geared toward a CR 9 encounter) "Front Row Warforged" Fighter 6 (Knight?) (PHB2) Equipment: Pitspawned (DMG2) Tower Shield + Shortspear or Trident Feats: Formation Expert (tactical)(CW), Phalanx Fighting (only good w/ heavy shield & light weapon, but maybe modified)(CW), Adamantine Body (ECS/MM3), Greater Resiliency (CW), Shield Wall (HoB), Block Arrow (HoB), Intimidating Strike (PHB2), Shield Specialization (PHB2), Shield Ward (PHB2), Teamwork Benefits: Team Shield Maneuver (Immediate; push teammate at -1 or lower 10 ft.). "Back Row Warforged" Warmage 6 (CA) (Warlock?) (CA) Equipment: Wands (or Eldritch Blast), +1 Twilight Composite Plating Feats: Mithral Body (ECS/MM3), (Ritual Blood Bonds (yeah yeah I know they don't technically have "blood" :P)(PHB2) Spells: Repair spells, swift spells (separate encounter) "Warforged Indiana Jones-Killer" Bbn 1 / Ftr 4 / Warforged Juggernaut 4 (ECS) Equipment: Scary-Lookin' Spiked Shield...Scary-Lookin' Spiked Everything, Actually Feats: Adamantine Body, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Blood-Spiked Charger (PHB2), Cometary Collision (PHB2), Run, Fleet of Foot (CW)
#2 ravengraygem Dec 17, 2008 20:48:38	Phalanx Fighting was in Lords of Darkness, a 3.0 FR sourcebook. Gave AC bonus for using (a certain type of, I think) shield and sword. And if an ally with 5 feet had that feat and qualified for the bonus, then both got an additional AC bonus. I know that Phalanx Fighting was reprinted in one of the 3.5 books, but not a clue as to where. There were also a few rather neat shield feats in Sword and Fist, a 3.0 character option book, and I think most of these were reprinted as well. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I'm not even close to my books at the moment, so I can't give you any details.
#3 m-bark Dec 18, 2008 3:35:20	Phalanx Fighting was in Lords of Darkness, a 3.0 FR sourcebook. Gave AC bonus for using (a certain type of, I think) shield and sword. That one was reprinted, I believe in one of the Complete books. You need to wield a heavy shield and a light weapon, then you'll grant a +1 AC bonus to people standing next to you. (Perhaps this bonus was only limited to others wielding heavy shields and light weapons, and I don't recall if it was cumulative or no.)
#4 Ogiwan Dec 21, 2008 22:13:25	It was, and it was Complete Warrior, IIRC. I remember that it bothered me because it had "Phalanx" in the title, but required the use of a large shield and light weapon.....which isn't a phalanx. A Phalanx is a dense array of hoplites, the main weapon for them being a spear. A spear is not a light weapon. Rather, the large-shield-and-light-weapon (i.e. large shield and short sword) is far more like a Roman legionnaire. Which, to be fair, was initially (as in, before even the Punic Wars) based on the hoplite/phalanx. Now, if you want a true Phalanx, they'd have to have a large shield, spear (10 foot reach), and longsword. However, that would require monkeying around with the equipments, making a new shield, spear, or what have you. Rather, I would just go with a block of 'forged with longspears and longswords. When the PCs move in for melee combat, they get poked by a total of 6 spears; next round, it will be 3 longswords and 3 spears. To cover the flanks and harass long-ranged PCs, you could have your own light infantry, wielding bows or javelins. Of course, this hinges on a dense formation of 'forged pikers to provide the formation feel, which is horribly vulnerable to the AoE powers of certain classes. Furthermore, to get the number of enemies needed, you go beyond the 8 enemies codified in the (rather wonky) CR system. I wanted to do a similar thing with the Dhakaanis. Capture the feel of the pre-Galifaran Dhakaani disciplined legions, Bugbear heavy infantry moving in bristling walls of spearpoints, Hobgoblin medium infantry on the flanks, ready to throw javelins and charge in with large shield and short sword, and with Goblin light cavalry and light infantry skirmishing and screening the flanks.
#5 magicchupacabra Dec 24, 2008 11:23:49	I would see this post after I'm 4 hours away from my books. One thing to remember if you're going with a shield wall formation, is to have the shield wall fight defensively. Also if you look for it, in one of the books there is a feat tree that you can build up through that will let you take the total defense action and still threaten an area. That could be more useful for what will basically be cannon fodder for your players to kill. Swap out a feat for expertise and you should be able to crank the AC up into the 30s for that shield wall. (they likely won't be able to hit much though like that) I think your forge setup should also look at having a mid row of reach weapon users. Long spears work fine there. You can also have the shield wall use aid another to give the spear fighters a better chance of hitting. Doing this though you might want to lower the levels down of the forge a bit to keep it in the target of what you're wanting to do. Also your back row warforged need teamwork benefits as well. Look at the fun teamwork thing for spells. You can make the saves a bit more difficult with some of them. Another thing to keep in mind is if the front wall is taking heavy damage, have the second row, if you use them, use aid another to boost the front rows AC up. Then have your back row move in to apply repair spells to the damaged forged. (remember you can share a space with another medium creature but it just gives you penalties to AC and attack) Another thing to consider is lowering the levels of the forged to increase the number of forged that you can use and still challenge the party. Doing this your forged each has lower HP and BAB, but you can vary out the equipment more and with enough forged forming a shield wall you'll likely not have to worry about the wall being breached. With that you just have the ones not involved in the wall (at least 10 of them) take up a formation and use missile weapons (short and long bows work well) for volley fire. You could again have nearby forged to use the aid another action to boost the AC up for return fire from the PCs. That's all I got right now without the books here. Hope it proves useful.
#6 warweaver Dec 25, 2008 16:04:12	That it does, mon ami! Though I noticed your post after the fact, the tactics I used in combat matched pretty much exactly what you said. It turned out to be a fun and surprisingly challenging combat for a bunch of level 8-9's, despite fighting enemies much lower than them. I think I got the First Wall Forged AC past 30 for a bit - and entirely without magic. The players were especially surprised when they proved so strong against the Archivist's ray spells and the Duskblade chain-tripper. Shield Ward is a beautiful, beautiful feat...especially considering all the other feats granted increased shield bonuses to AC (which thus also counted for Touch AC and vs Trip/Bull Rush/Grapple). Much fun was had, and the PCs are now even more resolved to destroy this demon-controlled Warforged factory - before it generates enough squads to wipe out their (lower level) fellow soldiers with its awesomeness. :P
#7 magicchupacabra Dec 25, 2008 18:15:33	Awesome on the encounter success there. If you want some more fun, look into building some warforged shock troopers. And never forget the greatness that one can do with a warforged titan, a group of supporting forged, and a low level artificer type with a wand with some decent level repair spells in it. :evillaugh