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new kingdoms

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
elrodian
May 11, 2008 14:03:10 Dose any one think there could be new kingdoms from form other kingdoms like a new Cyre comeing together form the eastern half of Breland with the city of New Cyre as the capitol. Another one is like Hideous Phidias said is in his post (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1028228) that a north Thrane would be created.

What do you guys think about these and do you guys have ideas about knew kingdoms that can beformed.
#2
Amaril
May 11, 2008 20:55:38 If you mean kingdoms from the Five Nations, the only one I'd speculate is "New" Cyre, which is precisely what Prince Orgrev wants to achieve. As far as any other nation, I'd say that be cause for a new war.

If you're talking about new kingdoms from areas such as Droaam or the Shadow Marches, that's entirely up to you.
#3
cloud_divider
May 14, 2008 0:39:11
Dose any one think there could be new kingdoms from form other kingdoms like a new Cyre comeing together form the eastern half of Breland with the city of New Cyre as the capitol. Another one is like Hideous Phidias said is in his post (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1028228) that a north Thrane would be created.

What do you guys think about these and do you guys have ideas about knew kingdoms that can beformed.

I guess it depends on how you wanted to play it...

First off, I think the formation of New Cyre would be...a complex affair. An independent New Cyre is a fairly significant threat to Brelish sovereignity. Not only would they be giving up territory (goodwill only goes so far - while I can easily imagine a semi-autonomous Brelish state of New Cyre, I don't see Breland giving up any meaningful amount of territory, and New Cyre doesn't have much to offer in trade), but it would be showing a fair amount of weakness to the other Nations. Lots of long-term risk involved... But hey, maybe Boranel might do it, and generosity prevails over pragmatism...but I'd probably expect New Cyre to be very, very friendly with Breland.

Sure, there's a lot of possible avenues that could make that happen - for instance, were Boranel to finally pass on with no obvious heir, Breland could devolve into civil war as the anti-royalists face off against those loyal to the Brelish throne, and in that chaos, Oargev could possibly make his move. Of course, then there's the distinct possibility that Aundair, Thrane, or Karrnath may move in (plus there's Droaam on the far side, too) - New Cyre probably wouldn't be a meaningful threat to a major military action by any one of the other three nations, and Breland's own forces would be divided...and we're now talking a Next War campaign. Not to say that that wouldn't be fun, but it'd be a pretty major change to the status quo.

I'll need to check up on the Northern Thrane thread, but perhaps it's safe to assume it's a Thaliost-headed secessionist movement. It would probably be fairly protracted and bloody; though maybe not as ugly as a Brelish civil war.

I can imagine a new nation forming up in Xen'drik, using Stormreach as the capitol. Again, like any breakaway colony, wars would be fought over it. Assuming it's a popular uprising, Stormreach has quite a few advantages that a Khorvairian civil war wouldn't - they've got a very large sea barrier between themselves and the "motherland." Reinforcements would take a looong time to arrive. Furthermore, you can pretty easily posit some kind of magical artifact being discovered in Xen'drik that might give the locals a major advantage.
#4
kalanth
May 14, 2008 8:54:07 I have had many attempts to forceably generate a new country repeled by PC actions combined with the aid of one nation or another. Droaam had an attempt to expand further into Breeland that was pushed back, and I have had the same results in an attempt by Aundair to march on the Eldeen Reaches. But as of yet, I would not be expecting any of the established nations to break apart and form new nations.

As for New Cyre, that is something I would like to see formed in the world but I struggle to find the where. I portray Prince Orgrev as a cuning man but with the intelligence to know his people are to weak at this time to withstand an attack from any of the Five Nations. I would think that he would look to moving his people to the Shadow Marshes or parts of Droaam to begin reforming the nation. Each of those would require tricky negotiations and potentially a battle or two to survive the choice, but as I see it that is a more likely chance for New Cyre to survive than if they took land from Breeland.
#5
Hideous_Phidias
May 14, 2008 17:09:45 After a unified state like the Kingdom of Galifar breaks up the possible of new states rising from the ashes is more then likely. Take the nine new states as examples. Just because the main storyline states with only those does not mean that more can and should not be added.

A few ideas for new states in an Eberron plot

The city of Thaliost in northern Thrane is city that changed hands several times during the hundred years war. At present the people are unhappy and have divided loyalties. If one were to push in the right direction the power could shift leading to a new civil war or a peaceful change of leadership. I chose this to base my campaign around.

On the Day of Mourning, Cyre had many forces out side the borders. Armies and their navy were fighting in many theaters. They also had large fishing fleet that would have been out of port. I would say this leaves alot of room for a DM to set up a plot for a new Cyre some where. With all the sea vessels I would think the islands off Xen'drik or the Northern islands off Sarlona would be a good place.

Valenar was once part of Cyre and would not be a bad place to center a plot where Cyran loyalist are working to force out the elves and regain some lost land. Again the the surviving Cyran forces could work on this plot as well as forces from the Goblin kingdom of Darguun could help in this cause.

Q'barra is the kingdom of many people. It is where people went to get away from the war andtry and bring back some of the lost glory of Galifar. People here could found new cities there is lots of room or again a new Cyran state could be formed. It is also a likely place for the Inspired to setup a Kingdom on the continent of Khorvaire.
#6
saxaholic
May 17, 2008 16:39:14 I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power.
#7
revvecor
May 25, 2008 23:01:16
I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power.

I think that there would be 2 or 3 Karrnath Nobles whom would take over the country within a short period of time. As the weaker noble join the stronger nobles.

In addition the Emerald Claw could form a state under Karrnath with entrances to the surface in major cities. Or giving their huge military force they could fight in the civil war.
#8
vegetalss4
May 31, 2008 13:57:09
I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power.

and then there is also the fact that even through the blood of vol isen't the state religion anymore a lot of people in karrnath still follows it, and i don't think that they would have a lot of proplems with the king being a vampire
#9
Edymnion
Jun 03, 2008 21:18:02 Yes, no existing nation is going to willingly give up territory to let a New Cyre form, so its going to have to take it from somewhere, probably by force. Eldeen Reaches and Droam are the most obvious choices for trying to hack some land out of, since they more or less lack a central government (although the Sora Kells would likely argue that one with you), it would be easier to get the existing nations to recognize you and accept you as a new country if you went that route.

Another possibility would be in Xen'Drik. The coast of the place is apparently pretty stable and "normal", with the reality twisting effects only kicking in when you move inland, so New Cyre could become a coastal country, sort of like Peru.
#10
julescarv
Jun 03, 2008 21:48:14 One idea that's occured to me -- a changeling state, attempting to form in a rural area.

Most changelings aren't interested, since they'd rather live in cities and let others do the tough jobs, but these are changeling reality seeker types who want to "live honestly by the sweat of their brow," and actually try to live as independent peasant farmers. It's more a commune of a few hundred changelings (at most -- maybe only in the tens) than a whole kingdom. I envisage it lasting about ten years, before a bunch of changelings realize that it was a harder life than they expected, and they were less well prepared than they thought, so they retreat back to non-changeling dominated cities.
#11
octaviusiii
Jun 04, 2008 2:18:04
Yes, no existing nation is going to willingly give up territory to let a New Cyre form, so its going to have to take it from somewhere, probably by force. Eldeen Reaches and Droam are the most obvious choices for trying to hack some land out of, since they more or less lack a central government (although the Sora Kells would likely argue that one with you), it would be easier to get the existing nations to recognize you and accept you as a new country if you went that route.

Another possibility would be in Xen'Drik. The coast of the place is apparently pretty stable and "normal", with the reality twisting effects only kicking in when you move inland, so New Cyre could become a coastal country, sort of like Peru.

Or like Chile, for that matter.

The problem with Xen'drik is the Traveller's Curse is not the only curse. There is also the curse that makes everyone become crazed homicidal psychopaths, should the civilization get too large.

I've thought settlements on the eastern edge of the Eldeen Reaches would be interesting, although prone to fey involvement. I could see settlements springing up in the islands of Lhazaar as well.

In one campaign, we had a principally warforged settlement inside the Mournlands that was at odds with the Lord of Blades. It was partnered with the Druids of the Broken Path to restore some of the area around the fortress town so that limited plant life could grow. Their goal was the restoration and reclamation of the Mourlands for warforged and all others that want to work together to rebuild the shattered landscape.
#12
Dynathos
Jun 04, 2008 12:37:22 You can try various kingdoms (now part of riedra) on sarlona
New cyre... were playing a campaign where a genocide on goblinoids of darguun is taking place to reclaim some cyran territory.... :-)
#13
schala_zeal
Jun 04, 2008 20:40:10 I think that Darguun could be an interesting place to have new "nations" crop up - though it would probably be noticed more as the Lhesh Haruuc losing control of some areas of the country to the various tribes that live there, and likely would not be noted by anyone who doesn't pay attention to Darguun other than as a vague "it's not as safe as it was" type of thing.

Or if you want something interesting, have the lizardfolk of Q'barra (all or a group of them) petition to become their own nation.
#14
dsivis
Jun 05, 2008 16:54:12 Personally, I think Prince Oargev is gonna try to gather in as many Cyrans as possible before trying something big.

I forget...is he married? Because he could make a diplomatic splash in various circles if he announced he was going a'courtin. Assembling the trappings of Cyran power on his person would mean he's got plans.

Places for Cyrans to go (Maybe!)
1. East Breland (staying)
2. Stormreach (or nearby)
3. 4. Q'barra
5. Shadow Marches
6. Darguun
7. Valenar
8. Mournland

All have consequences for the Cyran people as well as the current denizens.

It wouldn't surprise me if, should Breland descend into civil war, that Oargev would support the whoever would grant him the most land following victory, although he'd probably support the monarchy if he could (being an honorable guy).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 elrodian May 11, 2008 14:03:10	Dose any one think there could be new kingdoms from form other kingdoms like a new Cyre comeing together form the eastern half of Breland with the city of New Cyre as the capitol. Another one is like Hideous Phidias said is in his post (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1028228) that a north Thrane would be created. What do you guys think about these and do you guys have ideas about knew kingdoms that can beformed.
#2 Amaril May 11, 2008 20:55:38	If you mean kingdoms from the Five Nations, the only one I'd speculate is "New" Cyre, which is precisely what Prince Orgrev wants to achieve. As far as any other nation, I'd say that be cause for a new war. If you're talking about new kingdoms from areas such as Droaam or the Shadow Marches, that's entirely up to you.
#3 cloud_divider May 14, 2008 0:39:11	Dose any one think there could be new kingdoms from form other kingdoms like a new Cyre comeing together form the eastern half of Breland with the city of New Cyre as the capitol. Another one is like Hideous Phidias said is in his post (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1028228) that a north Thrane would be created. What do you guys think about these and do you guys have ideas about knew kingdoms that can beformed. I guess it depends on how you wanted to play it... First off, I think the formation of New Cyre would be...a complex affair. An independent New Cyre is a fairly significant threat to Brelish sovereignity. Not only would they be giving up territory (goodwill only goes so far - while I can easily imagine a semi-autonomous Brelish state of New Cyre, I don't see Breland giving up any meaningful amount of territory, and New Cyre doesn't have much to offer in trade), but it would be showing a fair amount of weakness to the other Nations. Lots of long-term risk involved... But hey, maybe Boranel might do it, and generosity prevails over pragmatism...but I'd probably expect New Cyre to be very, very friendly with Breland. Sure, there's a lot of possible avenues that could make that happen - for instance, were Boranel to finally pass on with no obvious heir, Breland could devolve into civil war as the anti-royalists face off against those loyal to the Brelish throne, and in that chaos, Oargev could possibly make his move. Of course, then there's the distinct possibility that Aundair, Thrane, or Karrnath may move in (plus there's Droaam on the far side, too) - New Cyre probably wouldn't be a meaningful threat to a major military action by any one of the other three nations, and Breland's own forces would be divided...and we're now talking a Next War campaign. Not to say that that wouldn't be fun, but it'd be a pretty major change to the status quo. I'll need to check up on the Northern Thrane thread, but perhaps it's safe to assume it's a Thaliost-headed secessionist movement. It would probably be fairly protracted and bloody; though maybe not as ugly as a Brelish civil war. I can imagine a new nation forming up in Xen'drik, using Stormreach as the capitol. Again, like any breakaway colony, wars would be fought over it. Assuming it's a popular uprising, Stormreach has quite a few advantages that a Khorvairian civil war wouldn't - they've got a very large sea barrier between themselves and the "motherland." Reinforcements would take a looong time to arrive. Furthermore, you can pretty easily posit some kind of magical artifact being discovered in Xen'drik that might give the locals a major advantage.
#4 kalanth May 14, 2008 8:54:07	I have had many attempts to forceably generate a new country repeled by PC actions combined with the aid of one nation or another. Droaam had an attempt to expand further into Breeland that was pushed back, and I have had the same results in an attempt by Aundair to march on the Eldeen Reaches. But as of yet, I would not be expecting any of the established nations to break apart and form new nations. As for New Cyre, that is something I would like to see formed in the world but I struggle to find the where. I portray Prince Orgrev as a cuning man but with the intelligence to know his people are to weak at this time to withstand an attack from any of the Five Nations. I would think that he would look to moving his people to the Shadow Marshes or parts of Droaam to begin reforming the nation. Each of those would require tricky negotiations and potentially a battle or two to survive the choice, but as I see it that is a more likely chance for New Cyre to survive than if they took land from Breeland.
#5 Hideous_Phidias May 14, 2008 17:09:45	After a unified state like the Kingdom of Galifar breaks up the possible of new states rising from the ashes is more then likely. Take the nine new states as examples. Just because the main storyline states with only those does not mean that more can and should not be added. A few ideas for new states in an Eberron plot The city of Thaliost in northern Thrane is city that changed hands several times during the hundred years war. At present the people are unhappy and have divided loyalties. If one were to push in the right direction the power could shift leading to a new civil war or a peaceful change of leadership. I chose this to base my campaign around. On the Day of Mourning, Cyre had many forces out side the borders. Armies and their navy were fighting in many theaters. They also had large fishing fleet that would have been out of port. I would say this leaves alot of room for a DM to set up a plot for a new Cyre some where. With all the sea vessels I would think the islands off Xen'drik or the Northern islands off Sarlona would be a good place. Valenar was once part of Cyre and would not be a bad place to center a plot where Cyran loyalist are working to force out the elves and regain some lost land. Again the the surviving Cyran forces could work on this plot as well as forces from the Goblin kingdom of Darguun could help in this cause. Q'barra is the kingdom of many people. It is where people went to get away from the war andtry and bring back some of the lost glory of Galifar. People here could found new cities there is lots of room or again a new Cyran state could be formed. It is also a likely place for the Inspired to setup a Kingdom on the continent of Khorvaire.
#6 saxaholic May 17, 2008 16:39:14	I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power.
#7 revvecor May 25, 2008 23:01:16	I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power. I think that there would be 2 or 3 Karrnath Nobles whom would take over the country within a short period of time. As the weaker noble join the stronger nobles. In addition the Emerald Claw could form a state under Karrnath with entrances to the surface in major cities. Or giving their huge military force they could fight in the civil war.
#8 vegetalss4 May 31, 2008 13:57:09	I think that Karrnath could very well split when news that King Kaius I/III is a vampire gets out. It would probably provoke an attack from Thrane - which might provoke an attack on Thrane from Aundair - and the resulting chaos in Karrnath could have the various Karrnathi warlords grasping for power. and then there is also the fact that even through the blood of vol isen't the state religion anymore a lot of people in karrnath still follows it, and i don't think that they would have a lot of proplems with the king being a vampire
#9 Edymnion Jun 03, 2008 21:18:02	Yes, no existing nation is going to willingly give up territory to let a New Cyre form, so its going to have to take it from somewhere, probably by force. Eldeen Reaches and Droam are the most obvious choices for trying to hack some land out of, since they more or less lack a central government (although the Sora Kells would likely argue that one with you), it would be easier to get the existing nations to recognize you and accept you as a new country if you went that route. Another possibility would be in Xen'Drik. The coast of the place is apparently pretty stable and "normal", with the reality twisting effects only kicking in when you move inland, so New Cyre could become a coastal country, sort of like Peru.
#10 julescarv Jun 03, 2008 21:48:14	One idea that's occured to me -- a changeling state, attempting to form in a rural area. Most changelings aren't interested, since they'd rather live in cities and let others do the tough jobs, but these are changeling reality seeker types who want to "live honestly by the sweat of their brow," and actually try to live as independent peasant farmers. It's more a commune of a few hundred changelings (at most -- maybe only in the tens) than a whole kingdom. I envisage it lasting about ten years, before a bunch of changelings realize that it was a harder life than they expected, and they were less well prepared than they thought, so they retreat back to non-changeling dominated cities.
#11 octaviusiii Jun 04, 2008 2:18:04	Yes, no existing nation is going to willingly give up territory to let a New Cyre form, so its going to have to take it from somewhere, probably by force. Eldeen Reaches and Droam are the most obvious choices for trying to hack some land out of, since they more or less lack a central government (although the Sora Kells would likely argue that one with you), it would be easier to get the existing nations to recognize you and accept you as a new country if you went that route. Another possibility would be in Xen'Drik. The coast of the place is apparently pretty stable and "normal", with the reality twisting effects only kicking in when you move inland, so New Cyre could become a coastal country, sort of like Peru. Or like Chile, for that matter. The problem with Xen'drik is the Traveller's Curse is not the only curse. There is also the curse that makes everyone become crazed homicidal psychopaths, should the civilization get too large. I've thought settlements on the eastern edge of the Eldeen Reaches would be interesting, although prone to fey involvement. I could see settlements springing up in the islands of Lhazaar as well. In one campaign, we had a principally warforged settlement inside the Mournlands that was at odds with the Lord of Blades. It was partnered with the Druids of the Broken Path to restore some of the area around the fortress town so that limited plant life could grow. Their goal was the restoration and reclamation of the Mourlands for warforged and all others that want to work together to rebuild the shattered landscape.
#12 Dynathos Jun 04, 2008 12:37:22	You can try various kingdoms (now part of riedra) on sarlona New cyre... were playing a campaign where a genocide on goblinoids of darguun is taking place to reclaim some cyran territory.... :-)
#13 schala_zeal Jun 04, 2008 20:40:10	I think that Darguun could be an interesting place to have new "nations" crop up - though it would probably be noticed more as the Lhesh Haruuc losing control of some areas of the country to the various tribes that live there, and likely would not be noted by anyone who doesn't pay attention to Darguun other than as a vague "it's not as safe as it was" type of thing. Or if you want something interesting, have the lizardfolk of Q'barra (all or a group of them) petition to become their own nation.
#14 dsivis Jun 05, 2008 16:54:12	Personally, I think Prince Oargev is gonna try to gather in as many Cyrans as possible before trying something big. I forget...is he married? Because he could make a diplomatic splash in various circles if he announced he was going a'courtin. Assembling the trappings of Cyran power on his person would mean he's got plans. Places for Cyrans to go (Maybe!) 1. East Breland (staying) 2. Stormreach (or nearby) 3. 4. Q'barra 5. Shadow Marches 6. Darguun 7. Valenar 8. Mournland All have consequences for the Cyran people as well as the current denizens. It wouldn't surprise me if, should Breland descend into civil war, that Oargev would support the whoever would grant him the most land following victory, although he'd probably support the monarchy if he could (being an honorable guy).