I've read a thread about Tieflings in Eberron. Well, actually I'm more concerned about Dragonborn. I don't see much coherence with the setting... I mean dragons are distant beings devoted to their own causes and prophecies. And they are quite obsessed with the purity of their race (see what happened to the half dragons during the elves-dragons wars!) and only in rare cases they introduce strangers (or inferior beings
) to their secrets. Imo dragonborn don't fit well with the setting also because of what I read in Races & Classes. A lost, ancient empire? Not during the Age of Dragons... so when? Dragonborn where created to serve and [i]defend[i] dragons? Surely.. defend them from what? I think dragons in Eberron can take care of themselves quite easilly.Finally, I don't think Tieflings will have a negative impact on the setting (many obscure-hooded-sneaky figures roam the streets of Sharn or the slums of Karrnath) but a warrior-like draconic race popping up from nowhere could.
First, Argonessen is the Dragon continent, so dragonborn may exist there. They might live on the coasts and fight the human Seren barbarians occasionally.
Second, the Blackscale Lizardfolk of Q'Barra are known to be "transformed" by Vvarak (whatever that black dragon's name is). Dragonborn could be those guys.
(Personally, I don't really care what happens to the dragonborn, as long as I can ignore them easily. Unless the Eberron team comes up with something really, really cool, Dragonborn just don't fit in my group.)
If they add them in that is fine by me. Like the tieflings I do not care. I use what I like and the designers cannot "ruin" my game, only enchance it by adding new things that I can ignore or add.
Didn't the dragons rule all before the Age of Demons? That could be a decent place to put them. Where have they been? Perhaps they left Eberron or kept themselves hidden on an island during the Age of Demons.
If they add them in that is fine by me. Like the tieflings I do not care. I use what I like and the designers cannot "ruin" my game, only enchance it by adding new things that I can ignore or add.
I think you got it, when you say this. It only seems odd to me that we played 2 years without dragonborn and then they become a (more or less) relevant race in the world. In past PHBs only "major" races were present, and in Eberron dragonborn seem to be destined to be confined in one or two places, probably outside Khorvaire, with none knowing anything about them. Eberron always put an accent on social interactions. Aside from the multicultural, overtolerant Sharn, I wonder what happened if a dragonborn spawned in - let'say - Korrth, walking down a street as if it was the most natural thing in the world... If I were Kaius III (ops, my avatar!
) I'd begin to think that the Silver Flame and his crusades weren't so wrong...........If the campaign is a static one though that is a "snap shot" of one time then I guess we might be stuck with a retcon of some sort. Again this is why I hope they do a two year advancement and if people complain they can join the FR people and learn to deal with it. ;)
I doubt they'll advance the timeline. I've read something in another thread. Just hope they'll do it to justify "new entries".
I think you got it, when you say this. It only seems odd to me that we played 2 years without dragonborn and then they become a (more or less) relevant race in the world.
It's all how you define "relevant". As I've said before, what I want is a role that makes sense, and a role that provides players with a wide range of interesting hooks to use as the foundation for PCs. This doesn't require us to say "Oh, when we said 'orc' in the 3.5 Eberron, we actually meant 'dragonborn'."
Anything we do is going to require some shifting. If, for example, tieflings keep approximately the same role in Eberron that they have in the PHB (and I'm not saying they WILL, just saying IF), then they should be found in human cities, and you'd expect to have a tiefling community in Sharn... likely in Lower Dura or the Cogs. That's a change. However, it's not as much of a change as "House Thuranni? Don't you remember? They've always been tieflings."
Same thing with dragonborn. I want dragonborn to have a role that is both logical and supports a range of dragonborn PCs. This doesn't mean that we suddenly turn Karrnath into "The Kingdom of Dragonborn". But it may mean that when you encounter a dragonborn in Karrnath, people aren't all scratching their heads and saying "What is it? I've never seen anything like that before."
And they are quite obsessed with the purity of their race (see what happened to the half dragons during the elves-dragons wars!)
Dragonborn aren't half-dragons. They don't have dragon daddies. The relationship is far closer to Rhashaak and his blackscale lizardfolk... they are dragon-y, nothing more. The reason most of the dragons of Argonnessen dislike half-dragons is because they think they are disgusting - it's the way I'd expect most humans to feel if someone had sex with a dog and produced a creepy, stunted puppy with fingers on its front paws and a human nose and chin. It's an ugly, crippled little thing produced by perverse behavior, living proof that one of our own demeaned himself and his blood by breeding with one of these little rodents. Dragonborn, on the other hand, are more like a breed of dogs that are amusing because they act like humans - aww, look at his mouth, doesn't he look like he's smiling? And he can shake hands! But there's no creepy "When I look at you I am reminded that my uncle had sex with a maggot in order to produce you" that you get with half-dragons. (And not all dragons ARE against half-dragons - which is how you got Erandis d'Vol in the first place. Hey, some people LIKE having sex with dogs.)
Kieth, you have just scarred me for life.
Aww, come on. You know you want to play a half-dragon now. ;)
I'll just say that I have a dragonborn PC in one of my Eberron playtest groups, and I love the backstory we've come up with for him. And this stage, I have no idea if it will turn out to be the final path the official setting material takes, but I think it's certainly possible to give the dragonborn a role that makes sense within the setting.
It's all how you define "relevant". As I've said before, what I want is a role that makes sense, and a role that provides players with a wide range of interesting hooks to use as the foundation for PCs. This doesn't require us to say "Oh, when we said 'orc' in the 3.5 Eberron, we actually meant 'dragonborn'."
Anything we do is going to require some shifting. If, for example, tieflings keep approximately the same role in Eberron that they have in the PHB (and I'm not saying they WILL, just saying IF), then they should be found in human cities, and you'd expect to have a tiefling community in Sharn... likely in Lower Dura or the Cogs. That's a change. However, it's not as much of a change as "House Thuranni? Don't you remember? They've always been tieflings."
Same thing with dragonborn. I want dragonborn to have a role that is both logical and supports a range of dragonborn PCs. This doesn't mean that we suddenly turn Karrnath into "The Kingdom of Dragonborn". But it may mean that when you encounter a dragonborn in Karrnath, people aren't all scratching their heads and saying "What is it? I've never seen anything like that before."
Dragonborn aren't half-dragons. They don't have dragon daddies. The relationship is far closer to Rhashaak and his blackscale lizardfolk... they are dragon-y, nothing more. The reason most of the dragons of Argonnessen dislike half-dragons is because they think they are disgusting - it's the way I'd expect most humans to feel if someone had sex with a dog and produced a creepy, stunted puppy with fingers on its front paws and a human nose and chin. It's an ugly, crippled little thing produced by perverse behavior, living proof that one of our own demeaned himself and his blood by breeding with one of these little rodents. Dragonborn, on the other hand, are more like a breed of dogs that are amusing because they act like humans - aww, look at his mouth, doesn't he look like he's smiling? And he can shake hands! But there's no creepy "When I look at you I am reminded that my uncle had sex with a maggot in order to produce you" that you get with half-dragons. (And not all dragons ARE against half-dragons - which is how you got Erandis d'Vol in the first place. Hey, some people LIKE having sex with dogs.)
As I stated before, I based my assumption on what I read on Races and Classes. Eberron is so peculiar that I felt that description to be "not in line" with the setting. I know everybody working on adapting new races in Eberron 4th ed is surely having more than a headache... ;) My "personal" headache is just a question: "How much will Eberron change?"
P.S.: I almost chocked reading your last sentence, since I was playing with my dog!!! ;)
Personally, I found really neat and easy ways to incorporate all the new races into my version of the setting. I'm just curious to see what Keith will do.
I wonder who isn't!
However, we'll have to wait until 2009, right?
But there's no creepy "When I look at you I am reminded that my uncle had sex with a maggot in order to produce you" that you get with half-dragons.
I really have to thank you for this. It's my brother's birthday next week and I've been wondering what to write in the card.
This doesn't mean that we suddenly turn Karrnath into "The Kingdom of Dragonborn". But it may mean that when you encounter a dragonborn in Karrnath, people aren't all scratching their heads and saying "What is it? I've never seen anything like that before."
Whew! Kaius has enough on his plate (Vol, his own warmongering nobles, Thrane) to have to suddenly become an angsty dragonborn vampire.
I wonder who isn't!
However, we'll have to wait until 2009, right?
For the whole she-bang, yes.
However they've been saying that they're going to rope Hellcow into writing Eberron articles for DDI to give us a few nudges and snippets to at least make Eberron playable in 4E - just enough to tide us over as it were.
It's my brother's birthday next week and I've been wondering what to write in the card.
It's actually going to be the first in my new line of greeting cards. "When you care enough to send the very worst."
It's actually going to be the first in my new line of greeting cards. "When you care enough to send the very worst."
Fun fact. Celery can in fact fit through the nasal passage.
Another fun fact, cleaning celery that has been through your nasal passage off the computer screen is less then pleasant.
Fun fact. Celery can in fact fit through the nasal passage.
Another fun fact, cleaning celery that has been through your nasal passage off the computer screen is less then pleasant.
Eww. Celery.
Fun fact. Celery can in fact fit through the nasal passage.
Another fun fact, cleaning celery that has been through your nasal passage off the computer screen is less then pleasant.
Celery, What are you a healthy gamer? We can have no such thing, next you are going to say you shower daily, and haven't grown your dwarven beard yet! You know dam well we subside on junk food!
Step into my office....You're f**ken fired!
:D
As with a previous poster, the tiefling is a simple addition; it was already in 3.5, it just wasn't prominent and it doesn't need to be either. However the tiefling seems more "free" and "individualistic" than the dragonborn. Thus, the need for a society of tieflings to me isn't nearly as important since they have always been chaotic. Dragonborn in 3.5 were much more organized (races of the dragon) and Lawful.
I see Dragonborn in argonnessen moreso than anywhere else, as I really don't think they fit anywhere else. Khorvaire seems too set in stone to put them there as a society (demon wastes I guess maybe), Sarloona doesn't seem right, since that's the Inspired and Kalashtar's place; Xen'drick has places for them, but I personally think that continent has enough going on with it already. Forget about Aerenal...that wouldn't work. The biggest problem with argonnessen is that "no mortal has travelled there and survived." Or at least they aren't talking. So unless there's a memory wipe prior to coming to Khorvaire, I'm not thinking it would work well as it wouldn't keep argonnessen as secretive as it should be. Plus, what kind of back story would that be; "uh....I have amnesia, let's go kill stuff."
Heck, honestly the best ideas I can come up with is either underdark denizens or plopping a new island on the map...or perhaps the frostfell? Perhaps from another plane? And that's the problem; Keith's world does indeed have a weekness: It doesn't NEED to be changed. There's enough going on that I'm afraid anything that is done would seem like a band-aid on a large axe wound.
Keith's world does indeed have a weekness: It doesn't NEED to be changed. There's enough going on that I'm afraid anything that is done would seem like a band-aid on a large axe wound.
Nevertheless, it WILL change. Let's hope they'll do again the same great work we're used to in Eberron!
Any news about Eberron release date?
Nevertheless, it WILL change. Let's hope they'll do again the same great work we're used to in Eberron!
Any news about Eberron release date?
Oh I'm quite sure and expecting that Keith and James will knock my socks off; I'm just saying the world is solid as it is, and I'm having difficulty placing an order of draconic people anywhere that makes sense. The world is so culturally rich...and my fear is that something will inadverdantly be taken from one race and given to the Dragonborn (and no, I don't think it wll be a dragonmark, but I think it will be land and culture). It might and probably will be better than the original setting, I guess I'm just cautious in nature.
But, on the bright side, I've never been disappointed with anything that's had Keith's name on it.......
Dragonborn could be agents of the dragons? All were on Argenossean all this time that is why nobody ever saw one before. The dragons do not wish to move about Eberron themselves so they can use dragonborn. Plus they can use the dragonborn to fight their dragon on dragon wars agaisnt each other without bringing Tiamat out of her prison.
That's kind of what I was thinking too. I dunno though; Argonessen has always seemed "secretive" and "dangerous" to me, as in a place I wouldn't ever want to go. So much of the world is oblivious to the dragon continent (but in truth, they probably are about the ruins of Xen'drick-I mean they may know they are there, just not details-and the Inspired of Sarloona are unknown as well), that I just can't see a race from there. Imagine the secrets one could take by threats, magic, or the like! In 3.5 you could torture the bravest explorer, but chances are, he's never BEEN to Argonessen! So that kind of common knowledge running amok (or even as rare as a tiefling running around in 3.5) about the dragon continent doesn't hit me right.
It's a natural fit; but I don't think it's an easy one.