why should I pick Eberron?
what's the reason you prefer it?
is this world better than forgotten realms?
IMO, yes.
why should I pick Eberron?
If you want a dynamic world that can host all sorts of different adventures and campaigns, Eberron should work well for you. There are more potential BBEGs to draw on than you can shake a stick at. Religion works more like it does in real life, and magic is solidly found in day-to-day life (though powerful magical effects are still pretty rare). All the intelligent races in core D&D are given a logical place, and subraces have been given the boot (unless they are significantly different to warrant their existence).
what's the reason you prefer it?
Honestly? I feel like I could run in it for a very, very long time without getting bored. There's simply so much to see and do, and the plot possibilities are extensive. Oh yeah, the novels aren't canon, and the players should never feel like background characters while more powerful NPCs do the important stuff.
is this world better than forgotten realms?
That's a matter of opinion. "Better" is subjective, I happen to enjoy it more, as does my gaming group.
why should I pick Eberron?
The answer, I feel, is summed up in a question posed by someone on the Eberron General boards not long ago. They asked who the heroes of Eberron are. In Forgotten Realms you can answer Elminster, Drizzit, and the like, in Dragonlance you can answer The Companions. The answer that was given to the OP of that thread, by pretty much everyone, is "Your PCs"
One of the themes of Eberron is that if your crew doesn't save the world no one is going to. There is no safety net. Oh sure there are a scant handful of high level NPCs running around, but none of them are adventurers, and while some may be allies, none of them are apt to be able to save the day. Eberron desperately needs heroes.
what's the reason you prefer it?
Beyond what I said above I enjoy the world itself. There is a certain internal logic and consistency to the setting. Unlike some settings, a town doesn't have multiple epic level characters living in it, but the 'common folk' still live in crippling squalor. Not to say Eberron is a utopia, but the people in Eberron have magic and they use it to practical ends. Low level magic is widespread. Everyday magic touches the lives of all on Khorvaire.
Besides all that I like old pulp magazines and film noir... Eberron was specifically made with those in mind.
That being said I still have a soft spot in my heart for Dragonlance and run campaigns there from time to time. Thematically and stylistically (and theologically) the two settings couldn't be more different. Magic being rare and feared vs common and accepted, highly active meddling deities vs gods that can't be objectively proven to even exist, high fantasy vs pulp action.
Both have their place, but for my two crowns (cp) I'm more apt to play in Eberron's sandbox these days.
There are more potential BBEGs to draw on than you can shake a stick at.
ok, that's good to know, I've played one campaign so far, for a month, DM favors FR, but we are considering a different world, cause he claims that FR won't last long.
Are there organizations similar to the Dukar order (underwater), Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim or Twisted Rune? I've glanced through the wiki page and Dragonmarked houses or Blood of Vol don't look that impressive, kinda dull
Religion works more like it does in real life
do gods appear often? are churches very influential? are there areas not influenced by religion, and have some other philosophies? in FR rangers have to pick a god, our didn't, **** that
and magic is solidly found in day-to-day life (though powerful magical effects are still pretty rare)
are all areas like that? or there's some more realistic diversity?
All the intelligent races in core D&D are given a logical place, and subraces have been given the boot (unless they are significantly different to warrant their existence).
changelings and shifters seem like good ideas, but the sentient robots are too flashy, don't like the art at least
the novels aren't canon, and the players should never feel like background characters while more powerful NPCs do the important stuff.
nah, novels add to the complexity of the world, that's up to DM how should PCs feel, it's a balance thing
That's a matter of opinion. "Better" is subjective
off course it is
They asked who the heroes of Eberron are. In Forgotten Realms you can answer Elminster, Drizzit, and the like, in Dragonlance you can answer The Companions. The answer that was given to the OP of that thread, by pretty much everyone, is "Your PCs"
but don't you think that some hero standards should be set, also that's not realistic, there should be some legends about famous heroes of the world
One of the themes of Eberron is that if your crew doesn't save the world no one is going to.
ok, I feel that, tough that's the point of DnD, how is it Ebberon-specific?
Unlike some settings, a town doesn't have multiple epic level characters living in it, but the 'common folk' still live in crippling squalor.
for example?
Not to say Eberron is a utopia, but the people in Eberron have magic and they use it to practical ends. Low level magic is widespread. Everyday magic touches the lives of all on Khorvaire.
they have a rail, I find the idea of magic industrial revolution repulsive
film noir... Eberron was specifically made with those in mind.
highly active meddling deities vs gods that can't be objectively proven to even exist
agreed, the agnostic approach is much better
Eberron had heroes, they need some now.
As for the epics vs commoners comment, Forgotten Realms is sadly the culprit. I don't have the books in front of me but a little town like Silverymoon has something like a dozen epic spellcasters, yet the town doesn't have running water or has the streets lit up with continual flame spells at night. It is very must a medieval society that happens to have people living in town that have the power of a small nuclear weapon... in Eberron the setting is more renaissance with a dash of early twentieth century attitude and morals. The people with magic use it to practical ends.
A world where people go to hospitals instead of churches for healing.
Oh don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that Eberron has never had heroes with you "Your PCs" line, heck the entire culture of the Valenar and Arenal elves is centered around hero worship of their ancestors that threw off the shackles of slavery. The people of Karrnath still aspire to the ideals of Karrn the Conqueror (and his books on war are quoted by them like Sun Tzu).
ok, that's understandable, still I think there should be some living legends, more interesting
As for the epics vs commoners comment, Forgotten Realms is sadly the culprit. I don't have the books in front of me but a little town like Silverymoon has something like a dozen epic spellcasters, yet the town doesn't have running water or has the streets lit up with continual flame spells at night. It is very must a medieval society that happens to have people living in town that have the power of a small nuclear weapon... in Eberron the setting is more renaissance with a dash of early twentieth century attitude and morals. The people with magic use it to practical ends.
A world where people go to hospitals instead of churches for healing.
I'll ask about this
edit: apparently not, Silverymoon is ''Gem of the the North'', whatever that means, it has a mythal, which is a epic level magical effect, and much more powerful magic is available to the attuned inhabitants, probably only the elite
Wizards in Forgotten Realms keep their magic to themselves, that's why we don't usually see the kind of things that appear in Eberron, the ones who do it usually are Elves, and only in their own realms.
Are there organizations similar to the Dukar order (underwater), Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim or Twisted Rune? I've glanced through the wiki page and Dragonmarked houses or Blood of Vol don't look that impressive, kinda dull
You know, I started making a list of the organizations I could remember off the cuff, and this post got really long. I don't know much about the four groups mentioned in your post (other than the Zhentarim), but there are plenty of power struggles going on in Eberron. The Dragonmarked houses are mercantile forces (though some are secretly scheming for more power, like evil corporations) and the Blood of Vol is actually a religion.
do gods appear often?
Only if you want them to appear, otherwise, not at all.
are churches very influential?
Guess you could say that. ;) Thrane is a theocracy, based around the Church of the Silver Flame (a paladin-y faith). The Blood of Vol has become popular in Karrnath, despite being denounced, and it's being run by one of the most powerful undead creatures in the world. The elven nation of Aerenal is centered on ancestor worship (since these ancestors have cheated death to continue running the nation, amassing enough magic power to both cause the dragons concern and fend them off). The elven nation of Valenar is also all about ancestor worship, and as a result they are the most bloodthirsty people on the planet. The dream plane has become a spiritual battlefield because of differing beliefs.
are there areas not influenced by religion, and have some other philosophies?
It's hard to say there are whole regions without religion, but I can guarantee Eberron has the highest number of athiests of any official D&D world in existence.
are all areas like that? or there's some more realistic diversity?
It depends on the area. Some places, like Breland, are filled with people who know what magic is and rely on it on a daily basis (streetlights, public transportation, goods made with magically enhanced craftsmanship), but don't use magic themselves. Others, like Aundair, are a bit more learned with their magic, to the point where most people can fire off a few cantrips a day as part of public education. Magic is a reliable source of power, and has effectively replaced technology.
changelings and shifters seem like good ideas, but the sentient robots are too flashy, don't like the art at least
I'll admit I'm not too happy with warforged mechanics in 3e, but the race does open tons of new RP options for players and plot elements for DMs.
nah, novels add to the complexity of the world, that's up to DM how should PCs feel, it's a balance thing
While that's true, I'd like to think that the temptation to make NPCs the star of the show is greatly diminished in Eberron.
there should be some legends about famous heroes of the world
There are tons of legends, but very few of them are living. That's the way such things usually work, ya? Think of Eberron as being in the same state as the Star Wars universe was during the original trilogy - a whole lot of badguys, a few elderly good guys, and the PCs.
Think of Eberron as being in the same state as the Star Wars universe was during the original trilogy - a whole lot of badguys, a few elderly good guys, and the PCs.
I think this is a great analogy. Yoda's hidden away on Dagobah somewhere, and he's a super Jedi Master - but he's just too old to jump around with a lightsabre any more, and he's close to fading... essentially, he's Oalian (the great druid of Eberron, who happens to be a tree). Ben Kenobi was a great hero once, but now he's a hermit on a backwater planet and he can't handle the problems on his own. There WAS a great age of heroes, and we know the names of many of them. We know stories about the age when two Jedi would take on an army. But we don't have heroes of that stature any more. We need Luke and Han and the others to rise up and meet these new challenges.
Eberron also has its share of powerful characters - just not very many heroes. Mordain, Hassalac, Madra Sil Sarin, the Lord of Blades, Vol, all those 20th-level Inspired in Sarlona, etc... not to mention the epic-level Lords of Dust and the dragons. They just aren't interested in the common good - and many of them actively threaten it.
As AG says, there's all sorts of groups. The Dragonmarked houses are mercantile forces as opposed to typical villains (though they could be villains, certainly). If you want serious villains, you want the Lords of Dust, the Dreaming Dark, the Eyes of Chronepsis, the daelkyr, the Kech Sharaat... I could go on, but as AG says, there's lots of them.
Are there organizations similar to the Dukar order (underwater), Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim or Twisted Rune? I've glanced through the wiki page and Dragonmarked houses or Blood of Vol don't look that impressive, kinda dull
I don't remember the Dukar, but the rest have similar groups in Eberron. The Shadow Thieves would be House Thuranni or the Cabinet of Faces. Zhentarim could be the Aurum (though the Aurum is not quite as obviously "evil" as Zhent), and Twisted Rune would be Lords of Dust.
do gods appear often? are churches very influential? are there areas not influenced by religion, and have some other philosophies? in FR rangers have to pick a god, our didn't, **** that
The gods have never appeared and some think they might not exist. It's different than FR, where everyone knows that all the gods exist and each person just picks a favorite. It's more like real-world religions, where the people who worship the Sovereign Host (the closest to FR's style of religion) tend to worship the entire Host and don't necessarily pick a favorite. There are also religions that are more like philosophies and lack actual gods: The Path of Light and the Blood of Vol are big ones.
are all areas like that? or there's some more realistic diversity?
I personally think the rapid spread of industrialization is more realistic, since that's what actually happened in real life. But, to answer your question, all of the big cities and civilized areas have a lot of magic (or, in Sarlona, psionics). The wilderness and primitive societies have less.
they have a rail, I find the idea of magic industrial revolution repulsive
If so, you probably won't like Eberron without some heavy changes to the fluff. The "industrialization" is a part of it; it's one of the reason that most fans like it. It makes more sense to me that if you have a world where tons of people are using magic as powerful and simple as the D&D rules say it is, that maybe some of them would get together and make things for the benefit of society. Look at how far the real world has progressed in such a short time, and we don't have any magic.
The gods have never appeared and some think they might not exist.
What you do have, however, is the Overlords of the Age of Demons (who for all intents and purposes have divine rank) and ancient dragons who follow Sovereign archetypes. On a lower-power level, history has examples of celestial beings working with mortals - notably the couatl who worked with Tira Miron, who is thought to have been a human vessel for the Silver Flame (and there's a legendary hero for you).
So perhaps the Shadow doesn't walk the earth. On the other hand, there is a dracolich in the Lair of the Keeper. Mundane dracolich? Aspect of the Keeper? The Keeper itself? That's up to you. And if you want that fighting-a-god experience, just let out an Overlord.
If so, you probably won't like Eberron without some heavy changes to the fluff. The "industrialization" is a part of it; it's one of the reason that most fans like it.
I didn't address this in my post, but I completely agree. One of the things I like about Eberron is that the world feels logical. At the end of the day, arcane magic is a science. You can write the formulas in books, adn you can teach them to other people. Concentration aside, there's no chance of a spell failing. With that as a foundation, the idea that a world would go for thousands of years WITHOUT magic being worked into everyday life seems ludicrous. The concept that this happens simply because wizards are "secretive" just doesn't work for me. It's fine in something like Middle Earth, where you can't just decide to be a wizard. But in D&D, it is a vocation - you learn to use a sword, I learn to cast a spell. And if that's the case, why don't we see some of those wizards putting their talents to practical use in daily life, as opposed to memorizing fireballs and hiding in ivory towers?
With that said, Eberron follows the principle that magic is a part of life, but that HIGH level magic is rare, because few people can master that level of magic. You don't have many people who can teleport, cast wish, or things like that. So we do have streets lit by continual flame. We have our lightning rail, and the telegraph-like speaking stones. We have the warforged and airships, both recent creations driven by war (something that often spurs innovation, as shown by WWII and the atomic bomb). But we don't have guns, we don't have a network of teleportation circles, and we don't have 18th-level wizards all over the place.
In any case, MSW is right. I like Eberron because the concept of magic as an industry and a part of the world makes sense to me - and it's not as jarring as some of the high-magic advances you can find in certain places in FR. But if you hate the idea of streets lit by magic, of mystical parallels to the train and the telegraph, it just may not be the right setting for you.
Wizards in Forgotten Realms keep their magic to themselves, that's why we don't usually see the kind of things that appear in Eberron, the ones who do it usually are Elves, and only in their own realms.
I find that silly. You are going to tell me that in a world where magic can be taught, a hero (like Elminster, or Blackstaff) who actually cares about the people around him is going to ignore the problems in their life and let them live in squaller? So, he will pull out his spells to destroy an invading army that threatens his community, but he is not willing to cast a few continual light spells, or maybe some magic to help everyday people with transportation?
Personally, I hate Forgotten Realms. I hate high fantasy. I love the idea of a magic industrial revolution. If this sort of thing is not your cup of tea, I don't know if Eberron is for you and your group. The existence of technology such as the rail, and "magic robots" (please don't kill me anyone, I know they are not robots) which were used as soldiers in the Last Great War, is a big part of the setting. Honestly, there is going to be a 4e version of Forgotten Realms, and while it might be very different than the 3.5 edition realms, it will be a lot closer to the 3.5 edition realms (and the feel/flavor of the setting) than Eberron. Eberron is a land in the middle of a magic industrial revolution. Its pretty much has the same level of society as earth during its 1st industrial revolution, but through magic instead of science. If you don't like that, you might need to take a nice long look at the setting and decide if its really for you.
If you decide you like it after all, welcome aboard. Personally, Eberron is among the 4 D&D settings I have REALLY enjoyed (Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Planescape are the other three), and its my favorite contemporary setting. Its a world where heroes still wear armor, carry big swords, and cast spells, but they do so on the tops of magical sky-scrapers, flying ships, and magical trains.
Are there organizations similar to the Dukar order (underwater), Shadow Thieves, Zhentarim or Twisted Rune? I've glanced through the wiki page and Dragonmarked houses or Blood of Vol don't look that impressive, kinda dull
The one thing that strikes me the most about these Realms organizations you're listing is that they're highly localized (with the Zhentarim being about as widespread as that list gets). The more popular organizations, in Eberron, tend to have a wider scope: they extend to the four corners of the continent of Khorvaire, much to the same extent as the Thayan Enclaves have in 3E Realms. It would be easier to answer your questions if we knew what you see as interesting from these factions, as Eberron certainly isn't lacking in organizations.
do gods appear often? are churches very influential? are there areas not influenced by religion, and have some other philosophies? in FR rangers have to pick a god, our didn't, **** that
This depends on the religion. Not all religions in Eberron are based on godly worship. The most widespread religions, the Sovereign Host and the Dark Six, do include godly worship, but these forces don't exist as a monolithic entity. These gods are a part of the world and their followers see them as such. Other religions are philosophical in nature. It's difficult to really classify everything here. For example, the Church of the Silver Flame worships the Silver Flame as a god, and the Flame exists as a physical entity in the city of Flamekeep. The elves of Aerenal worship their undying ancestors, which in turn sustains these ancestors; in a way, their gods walk among them regularly. Druids do not need to follow the tenets of any particular god; they're driven by their worship of nature or one of its aspects.
To say that religion has no impact on the everyday life of Eberron wouldn't make any sense. Religion is a part of everyone's life, but it can come in so many different forms that you always seem to find some kind of inspiring force. Of course, since Eberron doesn't feature any kind of codified "your soul sucks when you die if you have no faith or if your faith is false," atheism isn't a bad option for Eberron characters.
are all areas like that? or there's some more realistic diversity?
In civilized areas, magic has become very utilitarian and accessible. I would like to know what you mean about realistic diversity, however.
changelings and shifters seem like good ideas, but the sentient robots are too flashy, don't like the art at least
Except that warforged aren't sentient robots. They are artificial living creatures. They can die and be raised from the dead. They can be healed through magic. It's a shame you don't enjoy the art, though.
but don't you think that some hero standards should be set, also that's not realistic, there should be some legends about famous heroes of the world
The more famous heroes of the world tend to be the ones taking part in important and highly public events. These tend to be low- to mid-level NPCs for the most part. The standard is set so that you don't need to have a high level to be famous or legendary. Your deeds speak louder than your levels.
they have a rail, I find the idea of magic industrial revolution repulsive
Then perhaps Eberron is not a good idea for you. One of the key aspects of the setting is that magic has been made an accessible facilitator. Truly high-level magic remains exceptional, but magic does touch the everyday life of Eberron.
I think about combining the ideas that we like from both worlds, maybe that, we'll see ...
e.g. Sarlona replaces Maztica, Xendrik replaces Zakhara, cause I dislike such obvious real world analogies
Eberron doesn't have very many "real world" analogies. Forgotten Realm tends to do that more.
Xen'drik is nothing like Zakhara...
He's not saying it is, CD - he's saying he'd use it in place of Zakhara because he doesn't like Zakhara.
With that said, I'll point out that there's far more to Xen'drik than jungle. You have the vast Menechtarun desert, the Fangs of Argarak, the Marsh of Desolation, and Everice. As shown in The Shattered Land, because of the magical forces unleashed in the fall of Xen'drik, you can have unnaturally diverse environments right next to each other, you you could trek through the tropical jungle only to emerge into an arctic tundra. More than any other place on Eberron, Xen'drik is the DM's playground. Feel like using that Frostburn sourcebook, but can't get the players up north? Well, good thing the Traveler's Curse leads them to the legendary Frozen Oasis in the Menechtarun!
He's not saying it is, CD - he's saying he'd use it in place of Zakhara because he doesn't like Zakhara.
Doh... sorry. My reading skills seem to need fine tuning. Can I blame it on four hours of sleep after about 24 straight hours of writing in order to try and meet a deadline?
With that said, I'll point out that there's far more to Xen'drik than jungle. You have the vast Menechtarun desert, the Fangs of Argarak, the Marsh of Desolation, and Everice. As shown in The Shattered Land, because of the magical forces unleashed in the fall of Xen'drik, you can have unnaturally diverse environments right next to each other, you you could trek through the tropical jungle only to emerge into an arctic tundra. More than any other place on Eberron, Xen'drik is the DM's playground. Feel like using that Frostburn sourcebook, but can't get the players up north? Well, good thing the Traveler's Curse leads them to the legendary Frozen Oasis in the Menechtarun!
I don't own my secrets of Xen'drik source book.
Its on my list, along with the other fluff heavy books I think will still be useful in 4e... though I have been a little worried that maybe I should wait on purchasing more 3.5 fluff books before I see how much the 4e Setting Guide will change things first.There is a whole contienent where the dragons rule. There is a reason why they are not running around the rest of the world though. Plus rogue dragons are found anywhere in Eberron.
Gnomes have their own country which is like 1984 but in a nicer way.
There are pirate lords that rule the Lazaar Principalities.
Lots of Noir type stories can be told.
There is a Col War feel going on in the continent of Khorvaire. Each nation has its checkpoints and people better have their papers when crossing borders.
The Dragonmarked Houses are like powerful corporations that can secretly run things through comerce.
Warforged were given equal rights as a political/tatical move during the Great War. They are not robots or constructs in the strictest sense.
There are not many Legends that we can find in the books yet. Maybe in the years to come WOTC will work on this bit by bit. Till then you may have to make some up on your own.
The great goblin empire of Dhakaan which lasted thousands of years longer than Galifar, and their epic struggle, along side the Orc Druids agaisnt the Daelkyr.
The great lost Stone Kingdom of the dwarves which the 12 barbarous modern day clans were exiled from.
Karrn the Conqueror, and his pre-galifarian empire.
Lhazzar who led humans from Sarlona to the shores of Khorvaire.
The Giant Empires and their wars against the Quori and the elven rebellion.
The Elf/Dragon wars.
The War of the Mark when the dragonmarked houses first banded together to exterminate the aberrant marked and lay waste to the city that would one day become Sharn.
Can't spit in Eberron without hitting history.
As shown in The Shattered Land, because of the magical forces unleashed in the fall of Xen'drik, you can have unnaturally diverse environments right next to each other, you you could trek through the tropical jungle only to emerge into an arctic tundra.
I don't know why I hadn't thought of this before but the Magical Forces that were used during the fall of Xen'drik also makes it very likely that there are Ancient Living Spells of probably great power there as well. I don't think it matters along the lines of this thread but they are one of my Favorite Creatures.