Now that Goblins are actually playable..... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Now that Goblins are actually playable.....

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Ogiwan
Jun 14, 2008 9:09:35 Who wants to run a Goblin PC? Or a Hobgoblin, Orc, Bugbear, etc.......

In 3.5, I wanted to run a Goblin scout (Jhelg, I believe it was, in the Dreaming Dark series was one such), so now that concept would be a Goblin ranger. Also, I think a Hobgoblin or Bugbear Chainmaster would be a novel concept.
#2
Horus_Sungod
Jun 14, 2008 12:31:12 Well, bugbear rangers are weapons of mass destruction. :D
#3
Nived
Jun 14, 2008 12:46:05 Its a tough call, I've had an idea for a Hobgoblin character that I never got a chance to play in 3.5, only now I'd be torn between making him a fighter or a warlord.

Bugbears though, they are the impressive new treat. Remember that in 4e bugbears can use weapons one size catagory larger than themselves so... that'd be a mighty nasty giant spiked chain they'd have.
#4
Edymnion
Jun 14, 2008 13:06:36
Who wants to run a Goblin PC?

Um, Goblins were quite playable under 3e. I ran a Goblin Artificer for a while, and he worked out just fine.
#5
mikeycade
Jun 14, 2008 13:15:21 Frankly to me Goblins have always been playable, my Eberron group is running an off-shoot 7th level campaign, that I'm going to play a Goblin Archivist. With a bookish personality and very shy demeanor.
The only thing I want: Goblin ages! How do these things age, someone tell me already.
#6
Hellcow
Jun 14, 2008 14:57:36 I played a goblin in 3.5 too, so sure, we could argue that point.

But setting that aside and just focusing on the questions, currently I'm involved in three 4E games. One has a hobgoblin warlord, questing to find the lost Imperial crown. Another has a goblin rogue... and in the adventure I ran at D&D Game Day, I included a goblin rogue (city goblin from Sharn) as a pregen. So far, all working out great.
#7
Nived
Jun 14, 2008 15:45:15 Goblins and hobgoblins were quite playable in 3.5. (around my own table we dropped the +1 LA for the Hobs after a point by point comparisson with Dwarves).

Bugbears however were a pain with the poor humanoid racial HD and the level adjustment.
#8
tiwaztyrsfist
Jun 14, 2008 16:52:13 Yes, they were playable in 3.X. But they are more EASILY and Accesably playable in 4e. No fiddling with LAs and arguing about whether an LA is justified.

My first character I have made under 4e rules is a Hobgoblin Star Pact Warlock.
+2 Con and Cha. I actually made a thread on the topic in the CD: Strikers forum.

I love Eberron Hobgoblins. I love the flavor that they've developed for them in the novels so far.

I'm really hoping to see a more detailed character description for them in the Eberron Campaign setting.
#9
Marcus_Majarra
Jun 14, 2008 23:33:27 The problem with the 3E incarnations of the goblinoids was that they all carried a hidden tax, when you compare them with the common PC races. Goblins came out with a net negative modifier on ability scores, a small size, and a 30-foot speed as their only redeeming feature (when compared to other small races). Hobgoblins had LA and only +2 Dex/+2 Con and a skill bonus to barely compensate for the LA. Bugbears had both LA and racial hit dice, which are a pain in and of themselves.

Of course, you could play goblinoids in 3E, but they're certainly more accessible and worthwhile, mechanically, in 4E.
#10
JohnLynch
Jun 15, 2008 3:39:04 Are you talking about a goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear specific to Eberron? Or in just any 4e game? If the former, what about Eberron goblins are so different then normal ones? If the latter why would any society allow an evil hobgoblin (or one of the other evil goblins) within their walls?
#11
Nived
Jun 15, 2008 5:28:17 Mechanically we're talking about the stats for goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears for PCs presented in the 4th edition monster manual and comparing them to 3rd (and 3.5's) goblinoid entries.

As to the other part of your question... In Eberron the goblinoids aren't just random savages to be murdered by adventurers willy nilly. Many are tax paying citizens of their respective nations.

Things to keep in mind, before humans made their way to Khorvaire the goblinoid empire of Dhakaan reigned for thousands of years, much longer than galifar existed. Their collapse was due in large part to the toll taken from going to war with the Daelkyr (a war the the goblins won by the way). After they beat back the hordes of Xoriat so the gatekeepers (orc druids, the first druids btw) could seal them away, the goblinoid empire broke apart due to infighting and eventually collapsed. So in reality the goblins and the orcs were saving the world from extraplanar destruction when humans were still getting the hang of that fire thing.

Today the goblins have a lot going for them. During the Last War a charismatic hobgoblin leader banded together the remaining factions and carved out a nation of their own seeking to reclaim their lost glory. Darguun is an officially recognised nation under the Treaty of Thronehold, the same as the Mror Holds, the Lhazaar Principalities, The Eldeen Reaches and so on, and they are at peace with their neighbors. For now anyway.

Elsewhere across Khorvaire the goblinoids exist in most cities, usually living in the slums doing work no one else wants to do, most commonly in Breland but they exist in varying degrees all over Khorvaire, they were here first after all.

Ruins that dot the landscape of Khorvaire are almost always goblinoid in design, bespeaking of the artifice they held at the height of their civilization that puts today's artificers to shame.

Their glory has faded, but not gone, especially if you ask the heirs of Dhakaan.
#12
JohnLynch
Jun 15, 2008 5:59:21
In Eberron the goblinoids aren't just random savages to be murdered by adventurers willy nilly. Many are tax paying citizens of their respective nations.

I'm liking the sound of Eberron more and more Thanks for the info, its got me quite excited.
#13
octaviusiii
Jun 15, 2008 10:10:45 Heh, I've wanted to run a goblin, a kobold and, for a while, a lizardfolk (although the last one was nixed by my group thanks to my character's potential stench).
#14
the_ubbergeek
Jun 15, 2008 10:35:16 Lizardfolks are something else... barbarians of Q'Barra. Not really welcomed.
#15
Nived
Jun 15, 2008 12:07:28
I'm liking the sound of Eberron more and more Thanks for the info, its got me quite excited.

Well if you'd like some more reading there are Keith Baker's awesome Dragonshard articles that expand a lot of corners of Eberron.

Might I suggest Heirs of Dhakaan, and Strike Force: Dhakaan because they are awesome.
#16
JohnLynch
Jun 16, 2008 2:21:16
Well if you'd like some more reading there are Keith Baker's awesome Dragonshard articles that expand a lot of corners of Eberron.

Might I suggest Heirs of Dhakaan, and Strike Force: Dhakaan because they are awesome.

Will do I had looked at the articles earlier although the majority seem aimed at providing plot-hooks and the like. Although I'll check out those Dragonshards and some of the others. Although I warn y'all now, I'm likely to start a few threads on things that are old hat to most of you ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ogiwan Jun 14, 2008 9:09:35	Who wants to run a Goblin PC? Or a Hobgoblin, Orc, Bugbear, etc....... In 3.5, I wanted to run a Goblin scout (Jhelg, I believe it was, in the Dreaming Dark series was one such), so now that concept would be a Goblin ranger. Also, I think a Hobgoblin or Bugbear Chainmaster would be a novel concept.
#2 Horus_Sungod Jun 14, 2008 12:31:12	Well, bugbear rangers are weapons of mass destruction. :D
#3 Nived Jun 14, 2008 12:46:05	Its a tough call, I've had an idea for a Hobgoblin character that I never got a chance to play in 3.5, only now I'd be torn between making him a fighter or a warlord. Bugbears though, they are the impressive new treat. Remember that in 4e bugbears can use weapons one size catagory larger than themselves so... that'd be a mighty nasty giant spiked chain they'd have.
#4 Edymnion Jun 14, 2008 13:06:36	Who wants to run a Goblin PC? Um, Goblins were quite playable under 3e. I ran a Goblin Artificer for a while, and he worked out just fine.
#5 mikeycade Jun 14, 2008 13:15:21	Frankly to me Goblins have always been playable, my Eberron group is running an off-shoot 7th level campaign, that I'm going to play a Goblin Archivist. With a bookish personality and very shy demeanor. The only thing I want: Goblin ages! How do these things age, someone tell me already.
#6 Hellcow Jun 14, 2008 14:57:36	I played a goblin in 3.5 too, so sure, we could argue that point. But setting that aside and just focusing on the questions, currently I'm involved in three 4E games. One has a hobgoblin warlord, questing to find the lost Imperial crown. Another has a goblin rogue... and in the adventure I ran at D&D Game Day, I included a goblin rogue (city goblin from Sharn) as a pregen. So far, all working out great.
#7 Nived Jun 14, 2008 15:45:15	Goblins and hobgoblins were quite playable in 3.5. (around my own table we dropped the +1 LA for the Hobs after a point by point comparisson with Dwarves). Bugbears however were a pain with the poor humanoid racial HD and the level adjustment.
#8 tiwaztyrsfist Jun 14, 2008 16:52:13	Yes, they were playable in 3.X. But they are more EASILY and Accesably playable in 4e. No fiddling with LAs and arguing about whether an LA is justified. My first character I have made under 4e rules is a Hobgoblin Star Pact Warlock. +2 Con and Cha. I actually made a thread on the topic in the CD: Strikers forum. I love Eberron Hobgoblins. I love the flavor that they've developed for them in the novels so far. I'm really hoping to see a more detailed character description for them in the Eberron Campaign setting.
#9 Marcus_Majarra Jun 14, 2008 23:33:27	The problem with the 3E incarnations of the goblinoids was that they all carried a hidden tax, when you compare them with the common PC races. Goblins came out with a net negative modifier on ability scores, a small size, and a 30-foot speed as their only redeeming feature (when compared to other small races). Hobgoblins had LA and only +2 Dex/+2 Con and a skill bonus to barely compensate for the LA. Bugbears had both LA and racial hit dice, which are a pain in and of themselves. Of course, you could play goblinoids in 3E, but they're certainly more accessible and worthwhile, mechanically, in 4E.
#10 JohnLynch Jun 15, 2008 3:39:04	Are you talking about a goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear specific to Eberron? Or in just any 4e game? If the former, what about Eberron goblins are so different then normal ones? If the latter why would any society allow an evil hobgoblin (or one of the other evil goblins) within their walls?
#11 Nived Jun 15, 2008 5:28:17	Mechanically we're talking about the stats for goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears for PCs presented in the 4th edition monster manual and comparing them to 3rd (and 3.5's) goblinoid entries. As to the other part of your question... In Eberron the goblinoids aren't just random savages to be murdered by adventurers willy nilly. Many are tax paying citizens of their respective nations. Things to keep in mind, before humans made their way to Khorvaire the goblinoid empire of Dhakaan reigned for thousands of years, much longer than galifar existed. Their collapse was due in large part to the toll taken from going to war with the Daelkyr (a war the the goblins won by the way). After they beat back the hordes of Xoriat so the gatekeepers (orc druids, the first druids btw) could seal them away, the goblinoid empire broke apart due to infighting and eventually collapsed. So in reality the goblins and the orcs were saving the world from extraplanar destruction when humans were still getting the hang of that fire thing. Today the goblins have a lot going for them. During the Last War a charismatic hobgoblin leader banded together the remaining factions and carved out a nation of their own seeking to reclaim their lost glory. Darguun is an officially recognised nation under the Treaty of Thronehold, the same as the Mror Holds, the Lhazaar Principalities, The Eldeen Reaches and so on, and they are at peace with their neighbors. For now anyway. Elsewhere across Khorvaire the goblinoids exist in most cities, usually living in the slums doing work no one else wants to do, most commonly in Breland but they exist in varying degrees all over Khorvaire, they were here first after all. Ruins that dot the landscape of Khorvaire are almost always goblinoid in design, bespeaking of the artifice they held at the height of their civilization that puts today's artificers to shame. Their glory has faded, but not gone, especially if you ask the heirs of Dhakaan.
#12 JohnLynch Jun 15, 2008 5:59:21	In Eberron the goblinoids aren't just random savages to be murdered by adventurers willy nilly. Many are tax paying citizens of their respective nations. I'm liking the sound of Eberron more and more Thanks for the info, its got me quite excited.
#13 octaviusiii Jun 15, 2008 10:10:45	Heh, I've wanted to run a goblin, a kobold and, for a while, a lizardfolk (although the last one was nixed by my group thanks to my character's potential stench).
#14 the_ubbergeek Jun 15, 2008 10:35:16	Lizardfolks are something else... barbarians of Q'Barra. Not really welcomed.
#15 Nived Jun 15, 2008 12:07:28	I'm liking the sound of Eberron more and more Thanks for the info, its got me quite excited. Well if you'd like some more reading there are Keith Baker's awesome Dragonshard articles that expand a lot of corners of Eberron. Might I suggest Heirs of Dhakaan, and Strike Force: Dhakaan because they are awesome.
#16 JohnLynch Jun 16, 2008 2:21:16	Well if you'd like some more reading there are Keith Baker's awesome Dragonshard articles that expand a lot of corners of Eberron. Might I suggest Heirs of Dhakaan, and Strike Force: Dhakaan because they are awesome. Will do I had looked at the articles earlier although the majority seem aimed at providing plot-hooks and the like. Although I'll check out those Dragonshards and some of the others. Although I warn y'all now, I'm likely to start a few threads on things that are old hat to most of you ;)