Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Syltorian Mar 28, 2014 8:12:21	Does anyone know which of Cannith's dragonmark abilities (3.5) is required to operate a creation forge? Or can they, like the Quori forges they copy, be operated by others (a secret Cannith is very closely protecting, perhaps)?   Thanks!
#2 Hellcow Mar 28, 2014 11:54:34	Well, in MY Eberron... Anyone with any level of the Mark of Making has the potential to operate a creation forge. However, bear in mind that operating a creation forge is an incredibly complex task, which in my opinion requires a team of multiple highly trained magewrights working in concert. Possession of the mark allows you to interface with the controlling enchantments. But knowing what to DO with them and being able to do it with any degree of success requires both talent and training. Lacking either, you'll at best produce useless lumps of random matter and at worst destroy the forge itself, and possibly the forgehold; it's an extremely powerful and delicate artifact. In comparing it to the Quori forges, bear in mind that they are very different; the Cannith forges are INSPIRED (get it?) by the Quori forges, but aren't just copies of them... just as Zil elemental binding is different (and superior) to the Sulatar techniques that inspired it. One of the key points is that the Mark of Making is incoproated directly into the process. It's not like it's a key, and once you've turned it, it's no longer needed. Instead, it's an integral part of the entire creation process; to figure out how to make a forge anyone can use would be a major task of mystical engineering. Basically, no one knows how the Quori forges work (in part because they use psionic principles); Cannith managed to duplicate the effects by adapting it to the Mark of Making.
#3 Syltorian Mar 28, 2014 12:35:03	Thanks, Keith. Your reply is helpful as always!   The main reason I was asking is for a character background, in which a Cannith heir and chief operator of a creation forge would figure prominently. The character in question is an heir of Medani, and, as such (I see the Medani as top researchers as well as inquisitives) became part of a task force to provide arguments for the Question of (Warforged) Souls for Breland at Thronehold. The Cannith heir would be very interested in stopping this research or turning it Cannith's way - using bribery first, working himself up to an assassination attempt. So, being able to assign any Mark of Making to the villain of the piece is quite useful and good news. The idea of the Forge being operated by a team using the Mark of Making as an integral and continuously needed interface will do very nicely indeed.   Thanks also for the Quorforged input. That should play a major part in said Question of Souls. If warforged of the giant age were created as vessels for Dal Quor, Cannith seems to have managed to put real souls in them (at least, as far as the Brelish argument is concerned), wherever in Dollurh or elsewhere they got them from.   Of course, other arguments for and against warforged Souls would be appreciated too, although I realise it's a lengthy topic considering the debate about souls is far from conclusive in our own world. Still, I'd say the major arguments are that the warforged are sentient and free willed, capable of developping an individual personality (as opposed to, say, Karrnathi undead), able to learn, feel, and understand themselves as separate from their everyone else (as opposed to creatures lacking a charisma or intelligence score), can understand the difference between good and evil, and have a conscience. Arguments against their having souls (the Thrane and Cannith position, and that of many anti-warforged people out there) would be that they are constructs and are made, not born; that many may not develop real personalities, that they don't die the same way 'real people' (to use the specieist remark), do not sleep or dream (though neither do elves or kalashtar), that thinking constructs do in fact exist (titans, for instance), and that all the pro-arguments (safe, perhaps, the conscience) can be used for, say, vampires, who are traditionally considered soulless.   As an aside, I assume that even the current incarnations of the Quori have yet to figure out how to create warforged, or even quorforged? It would definetly make the mystery more complete if they too are puzzled by how their predecessors managed to possess essentially lifeless matter (unless Cannith is duped, and all the warforged are Quori possessed like Inspired or even Elans, but that's a nice conspiracy theory for the kalashtar to chase after).
#4 Beoric Mar 28, 2014 19:04:39	You know, I bet you could lift a number of elements of the Forgotten Forge - Shadows of the Last War - Whispers of the Vampre's Blade - Grasp of the Emerald Claw adventure series for your campaign.  I note that the climax of the series is in a working creation forge in Xen'drik (supposedly a Giant forge, not Quori - if Hellcow weighs in on this thread again I would be curious of his take on that).
(Reply to #4) Hellcow	Beoric wrote:
(Reply to #3) Hellcow	Syltorian wrote:
#7 Syltorian Mar 29, 2014 7:54:40	Beoric wrote:
#8 Beoric Mar 29, 2014 21:31:19	Another issue is in relation to moons.  Eg "Mabar enters a coterminous phase for three nights once every five years, on the nights of the new moon closest to the winder solstice. ... Mabar is remote for a period of five autumn days once every five years, around the full moon nearest the summer solstice ..."  Which moon?  And is it remote during the summer solstice or the autumn equinox?  And when are the solstices and equinoxes, anyway?  Rebirth Eve (14 Zarantyr) is supposedly the winter solstice, but I think I have seen other references that contradict that, for example Kybersef (27 Vult) is supposed to be the "start of winter".    I noticed this because I was looking at the Crying Fields, and wondering if there were any warforged ghosts there.  Might save a trip to Dolurrh.
#9 Hellcow Mar 31, 2014 10:10:56	But she's a good example: did all the quori try to 'possess' warforged by becoming docents (meaning there are more Shiras around who survived the turn), rather than possessing them Inspired-style?
#10 Syltorian Apr 01, 2014 2:59:56	Beoric wrote:
#11 Beoric Apr 02, 2014 21:23:30	RoE says warforged cannot become undead "by any known method".
#12 Hellcow Apr 07, 2014 15:49:07	I take it from the ECS that all current docents are from Xen'drik and that nobody has managed to create one since? Also, are all existing docents quori spirits, like Shira?
#13 Syltorian Apr 13, 2014 8:10:40	Thanks, Keith.   The information about the docents is something I overlooked. Could be that Shira is lying, as you are pointing out, or that she is simply unaware of later successes, because nobody told her. At any rate, it will interest my kalashtar researcher (though Shira has not, in my timeline, been discovered yet). I wonder, whether there could be some way for a human to interface with Shira to create a new kalashtar line in some way...
#14 Griefswald Apr 21, 2014 22:12:47	Just had a random thought about this thread.   So if you need a Mark of Making to operate a creation forge does that mean that the Lord of Blades has a mark of making somehow or that by studying the creation forge he uses others may be able to make a creation forge that can be operated without a Dragonmark?
#15 Beoric Apr 23, 2014 7:17:49	I think that one of the rumors/suggestions in the sourcebooks is that the Lord of Blades is actually Aaren d'Cannith.  I can't remember where I saw it, though.
#16 Captain_Kobold Apr 29, 2014 7:54:52	Griefswald wrote:
(Reply to #16) Griefswald	Captain_Kobold wrote: