Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hailstop Jul 07, 2008 1:30:50	With the KotS conversion and the fact that Orcus is in the 4e MM, it looks like my campaign is going to focus on these two. It seems to me that the two organizations (the Cult of Orcus I would assume to be more of a Cult of the Dragon Below) wouldn't really like each other. I certainly would think that Orcus would think that Vol is just a pretender and should be squished, but I'm not sure how Vol would look on Orcus.
#2 Nived Jul 07, 2008 3:30:04	Number of points I feel I need to make here. #1 by default Orcus doesn't exist in Eberron. True "If it exists in D&D it has a place in Eberron", but that doesn't mean everything in D&D is in Eberron, just that it can be, Eberron has a place something can be inserted, but the default assumption is that most things are not. Back in 3.5 it was as simple as saying "core stuff is in everything else optional," 4th core is significantly different so we'll see how that goes. Secondly, The Lich Queen Erandis d'Vol is not a goddess. As per the Eberron Campaign Setting pg 228 she is a Half Green Dragon Elf Lich Wizard 16 (under 3.5 of course). She's not even the most powerful wizard on Khorvaire (that one goes to Mordain the Fleshweaver). For 2,600 year she has controled the Blood of Vol and its practitioners, those let into the inner circle of the faith often do worship her, but she is not a goddess. Now as I said above there is nothing wrong with using Orcus, just there is no official material relating to him in any sourcebook for Eberron because the default assumption has been he doesn't exist. None the less if you wish to use him then Eberron has a place for him, all we have to do is figure it out. There are two possibilities that spring to my mind. The first possibility would be to declare Orcus one of the Rakshasa Rajahs that ruled the world in the first age, those extremely powerful Kyberspawn that were defeated and imprisoned in Khyber by an dragons and the sacrifice of the couatl. He would be one of the fiendish overlords of the world, a terrible fiend with mastery over undeath. Thusly he would probably be greatly concerned with being freed from Kyber (first before the other Rajahs), revenge on the dragons, and general ruling the world. This is path that the setting officially took with Tiamat, she's not a goddess rather a Rajah, which isn't to say they don't have divine rank, they're just not 'gods'. With this possibility his cult would indeed be considered one of the many Cults of the Dragon Below, but you would also have to consider the Lords of Dust, the fiends (none as powerful as the Rajahs... the Overlords) whom escaped the imprisoning in Khyber, certainly he would have some devotees in that organization. The second possibility would to have him be a ridiculously powerful creature from one of the planes, whom like the Daelkyr and the Quori have decided to invade the world. I would place him in Mabar, The Endless Night myself, as its the plane most often associated with undeath (Dolurrh is just plain old death). He wants to consume Eberron and all life in it, perhaps the Gloaming (manifest zone in the Eldeen Reaches) starts to grow and more and more of his minions poor through. Eventually he himself pushes through and well, tries to wreck up the place, massive interplanar war erupts on a scale unseen since the Daelkyr War. In either case I would cast Erandis d'Vol in more of a pawn role, she'd be a paragon to early epic villain, the 'false' villain. Perhaps the Blood Rites Vol practices that trace their origin back to Xen'drik were first taught by Orcus. Perhaps Vol herself has no idea that all her work is really just setting the stage for Orcus to be freed. If the second option is taken Orcus need not be the source of the Blood Rites of Vol, but has at some point in the past 2,600 years offered greater power to Vol to further her goals, empowering her undead with energy drawn straight from the blackest pits of Mabar. Indeed this makes her more powerful than ever, but all its doing is drawing Mabar ever closer, and when the stars align will give Orcus the paths he needs to invade. In either case Vol could prove an awkward and untrustworthy ally in the endgame (if the PCs don't kill her) once Orcus' full nature and what not are realized. The old "The Enemy of my Enemy" thing.
#3 Cyber-Dave Jul 07, 2008 3:32:26	According to KotSF, at least, the conversion document for the quest, Orcus is one of the Rajah's trapped in Khyber.
#4 Nived Jul 07, 2008 3:36:28	According to KotSF, at least, the conversion document for the quest, Orcus is one of the Rajah's trapped in Khyber. Well I did not know that, well then go with that whole 'first option' thing then.
#5 lugnut71 Jul 07, 2008 21:16:05	Well I did not know that, well then go with that whole 'first option' thing then. I actually like your second idea better though, seems more clever.
#6 umbralknight Jul 08, 2008 17:32:36	I do like the idea of Vol as a pawn of Orcus. Its somehow just complimentary.
#7 rauric Jul 08, 2008 21:07:21	You could have Orcus be a powerful demonlord from Mabar that got summoned a very long time ago by the fiends to fightthe dragons. He was smarter than they thought though and gianed power much too fast. Perhaps it took the combined power of some dragon and fiend forces to bind him into Khyber. Or he can be a Rajah of the Undead. Either way Vol and her followers would want anything that pertains to his cult as well as any relics or items of power that he or his Cult owned. These would most likely be items tied to the undead so they would be clamoring for them.
#8 sigma34561 Jul 09, 2008 12:06:53	Number of points I feel I need to make here. #1 by default Orcus doesn't exist in Eberron. True "If it exists in D&D it has a place in Eberron", but that doesn't mean everything in D&D is in Eberron, just that it can be, Eberron has a place something can be inserted, but the default assumption is that most things are not. Back in 3.5 it was as simple as saying "core stuff is in everything else optional," 4th core is significantly different so we'll see how that goes. Secondly, The Lich Queen Erandis d'Vol is not a goddess. As per the Eberron Campaign Setting pg 228 she is a Half Green Dragon Elf Lich Wizard 16 (under 3.5 of course). She's not even the most powerful wizard on Khorvaire (that one goes to Mordain the Fleshweaver). For 2,600 year she has controled the Blood of Vol and its practitioners, those let into the inner circle of the faith often do worship her, but she is not a goddess. Now as I said above there is nothing wrong with using Orcus, just there is no official material relating to him in any sourcebook for Eberron because the default assumption has been he doesn't exist. None the less if you wish to use him then Eberron has a place for him, all we have to do is figure it out. There are two possibilities that spring to my mind. The first possibility would be to declare Orcus one of the Rakshasa Rajahs that ruled the world in the first age, those extremely powerful Kyberspawn that were defeated and imprisoned in Khyber by an dragons and the sacrifice of the couatl. He would be one of the fiendish overlords of the world, a terrible fiend with mastery over undeath. Thusly he would probably be greatly concerned with being freed from Kyber (first before the other Rajahs), revenge on the dragons, and general ruling the world. This is path that the setting officially took with Tiamat, she's not a goddess rather a Rajah, which isn't to say they don't have divine rank, they're just not 'gods'. With this possibility his cult would indeed be considered one of the many Cults of the Dragon Below, but you would also have to consider the Lords of Dust, the fiends (none as powerful as the Rajahs... the Overlords) whom escaped the imprisoning in Khyber, certainly he would have some devotees in that organization. The second possibility would to have him be a ridiculously powerful creature from one of the planes, whom like the Daelkyr and the Quori have decided to invade the world. I would place him in Mabar, The Endless Night myself, as its the plane most often associated with undeath (Dolurrh is just plain old death). He wants to consume Eberron and all life in it, perhaps the Gloaming (manifest zone in the Eldeen Reaches) starts to grow and more and more of his minions poor through. Eventually he himself pushes through and well, tries to wreck up the place, massive interplanar war erupts on a scale unseen since the Daelkyr War. In either case I would cast Erandis d'Vol in more of a pawn role, she'd be a paragon to early epic villain, the 'false' villain. Perhaps the Blood Rites Vol practices that trace their origin back to Xen'drik were first taught by Orcus. Perhaps Vol herself has no idea that all her work is really just setting the stage for Orcus to be freed. If the second option is taken Orcus need not be the source of the Blood Rites of Vol, but has at some point in the past 2,600 years offered greater power to Vol to further her goals, empowering her undead with energy drawn straight from the blackest pits of Mabar. Indeed this makes her more powerful than ever, but all its doing is drawing Mabar ever closer, and when the stars align will give Orcus the paths he needs to invade. In either case Vol could prove an awkward and untrustworthy ally in the endgame (if the PCs don't kill her) once Orcus' full nature and what not are realized. The old "The Enemy of my Enemy" thing. 1st thing - There was a lot of Non-Core thing in eberron from the start. Psionics aren't "Core", and they got more book space than the "Core" dragons. 2nd Thing - Even though she didn't have divine powers, Vol is as close to a god as you can get in eberron. She has hundreds of thousands of worshipers, she is immortal, and has powers far beyond the imaginings of most mortals. Orcus makes a perfect Rajah. He is a unique entity of amazing power. He has a portfolio and cults that follow him. He fits in well into eberron as either in Lords of Dust adventures or Blood of Vol adventuers. It's not unimagineable that the Lady Vol prays to herself every night that she finds some way of controlling a Rajah of Undeath. Also, I was pretty certain that the Rakshasa's were the servants of the Rajah's and not Rajah's themselves. They might be very powerful, but they serve unique entities of immense power themselves.
#9 Nived Jul 09, 2008 17:09:08	I'm aware that non core material was in Eberron, I suppose I should have said that Unless it was specifically mentioned by the setting (like psionics was in spades) default was if it wasn't in Core it wasn't assumed to be there. As soon as something was mentioned in an Eberron book then its assumed to be in the setting however most non core material wasn't mentioned in the setting.
#10 zebastian Jul 09, 2008 17:36:48	Vol may have knowledge of the Thir religion and thereby aspirations beyond mere dragonmarks and mortality.
#11 malicant Jul 10, 2008 2:57:49	2nd Thing - Even though she didn't have divine powers, Vol is as close to a god as you can get in eberron. She has hundreds of thousands of worshipers, she is immortal, and has powers far beyond the imaginings of most mortals. Vol is actually not even remotely close to being a god, since no one worships her. Well, maybe some loons that know she exists worship her, but that's not nearly enough. She is more like a shadow pope of a religion. The closest thing to a god that is not a god in Eberron would be the Undying Council, I guess. Also, being undead is not the same as being immortal, just to nitpick a little further. :D