PC wants to become an Elemental High Binder - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

PC wants to become an Elemental High Binder

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
paulos
Sep 20, 2010 15:02:56
Anybody know any details about how the High Binders of Zilargo actually do the binding? What happens?

One of my player's PC is developing into a High Binder who wants to bind elementals to Khyber shards.

The PC in question wants to eventually bind the elemental that will power the party's hard-won airship. He hopes to develop a relationship with the elemental that proves more cooperative than just subduing it to slavery. I'm imagining the bonding ritual in Avatar, by which the main character earns the faithfulness and trust of his flying mount in a deadly combat/contest of strength and skill.

What mechanics do you think I should use for PCs attempts at binding and the Binding skills that grow through practice? My preliminary ideas are below.

Tentative Mechanics of High Binding:
I'm thinking of khybershards like pokeballs (yes pokemon), where increasing quality/size of khyber shard makes the job easier (poke ball, master ball, etc)

I like the idea of the elemental having to fail 3 saves, but they'll start with crazy bonuses that have to be whittled down through battle and ingenuity.

* Say elementals start with a level+20 bonus to saves vs binding (making them impossible to catch by just anybody).
* The binder can take a standard action while adjacent to the elemental to begin binding, forcing the creature to begin make saves. When it succeeds at a save, the process must be started over.
* Reducing an elemental to 0hp disperses its energy. There is no subdual damage/knocking out at 0hp for elementals. Powers that deal damage must deal damage.

[sblock Effects that impose save penalties (penalties stack unless noted):]
Any PC (other than the binder) speaks Primordial: -1
Binder speaks Primordial: -2
Any PC (other than the binder) has Mark of Scribing: -1
Binder has Mark of Scribing: -2
Elemental is slowed: -1 to binding save
Elemental is immobilized: -2
Elemental is dazed: -2
Elemental is prone: -2 (separate from CA)
Elemental is granting combat advantage to binder: -2
Elemental is restrained: -5
Elemental is stunned: -5
Elemental is "unconscious": -5 (prone and CA count seperately)
Elemental is grabbed: -1 per person grabbing (cumulative, though grabbing an elemental will deal ongoing damage)

Damage: (penalties don't stack)
Elemental is =< 3/4 hp: -1
Elemental is =< bloodied: -2
Elemental is =< 1/4 hp: -5
(Should these penalties be greater? The elemental will become more dangerous as it's HP drops. Also, if it dies, the whole deal is off. Is -2/-5/-10 too good?)

Shard is tiny/poor: elemental gets +2 to saves vs binding
Shard is small/average: No penalty/no bonus
Shard is medium/Fair: -1 to saves
Shard is large/Excellent: -3
Shard is huge/Flawless: -5

Tapping: Technology allows "tapping" or augmenting the shard but doing so risks destroying the shard. Roll d8 after the elemental succeeds on a save.

Shard is tapped (stage 1): -2 or Shard penalty x2 (Roll 1 on a d8 shatters shard)
Shard is tapped (stage 2): -5 or Shard penalty x3 (Roll 1-4 on a d8 shatters shard)
Shard is tapped (stage 3): -10 or Shard penalty x4 (Shard shatters unless elemental fails save)

Any PC succeeds on a Diplomacy, Bluff, Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance check (standard action): Moderate -1/Hard -2 (x2 if binder does it)
Any PC succeeds on an Arcana, or Intimidate check: Moderate -2/Hard -4 (x2 if binder does it)[/sblock]
What do you think? What am I missing? How can this be cooler, more cinematic, and yet simple and believable? Is there an easier way of doing this?

Other Options:
I haven't included anything about the binder's Binding skill aside from the skill checks. Should a binder get a seperate "Binder Level" that becomes a penalty? (Elemental takes a penalty to saves vs binding equal to the Binder's Binder Level)

Can PCs consider the elemental an ally to heal it if it is getting close to dying?
#2
Alex_
Sep 20, 2010 22:38:22 From the images I've seen, I always considered binding kind of a negotiation. That, or sheer force of will between the binder and the elemental. Summoning the elemental to begin with would clearly be a ritual. The actual process of binding it could be played out a variety of ways.

You could fight it in one on one combat, which I would treat like normal combat. Once defeated, the elemental-whether "slain" or KO'ed- is still defeated/disabled and can be bound. Or use a skill challenge with use of Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, and Arcana to force/trick/convince the elemental to be bound after a given number of successes before so many failures.

I'd advise against a seperate binding stat. To represent inmproved binding abilities, just make a feat or something that gives a +X bonus to all d20 rolls made when attempting to bind an elemental.
#3
Madfox11
Sep 21, 2010 5:00:37 I remember reading a short fantasy story (non Eberron) were an elemental binder gets an elemental to bond with the promise to explore the world. Granted, the elemental is depicted as a bit of an oddball in being curious about the world of those wizards who constantly summon and bind elementals, but it is certainly a motive you can work with ;)

As for the PC, personally I would not detail it as some kind of class ability. At most I would detail it as a ritual, starting with the creation of a Magic Cirle to bind the elemental, then a different ritual to summon it in the circle, followed by a binding ritual. The summoning and binding ritual combined would cost about as much as creating the magic item in question and would cost about as much time as the Enchant Item ritual. The binding ritual would be cheaper and easier if the elemental volluntarily binds with the shard, and I would design some kind of short skill challenge/RP scene with which the PC negotiates with the elemental (obviously requiring the ability to speak and understand Primordial). Obviously, PCs researching elemental names and personalities beforehand, even visiting the Elemental Chaos, would get some serious bonusses. My suggestion would be something like a 20% reduction in costs, although, it probably would be more balanced to keep the cost the same and let the ship be easier to manouver and control with a friendly elemental. I really would not design a skill (which will never be used), nor a long complicated process to simulate the ritual. It is complicated, you will likely need it once (even if the player wants to create more elemental bindings, spending much time on it is usually only interesting the first time) and it hardly matters for the end result.

Mind you, the first step would be to either find the necessary rituals in Xen'drik ruins or get the gnomes to reveal their secrets, and that would be an adventure or two in itself ;)
#4
paulos
Sep 21, 2010 8:04:38 Thanks for the responses so far.

A follow-up question that you're making me think about now is this: How do I depict elemental personalities? Are they more than just "Rwaaaaaaaaar, burning burning burning!" Should they have motivations, ambitions, desires, regrets, emotions, needs? If so what are these for an elemental? These questions stump me. Clearly I'd like the party to ultimately have a friendly/interesting NPC for their ship's elemental, but how much sentience and personality can I give a being of pure/raw elemental energy?
#5
Madfox11
Sep 22, 2010 4:14:41 An alien one? ;)

Anyway, most elementals have a rather limited intelligence, and I would imagine that their personalities do not go much beyond your "burn burn burn". I think they are working on an instinct level, but that they are just more intelligent about it. If they were more sapient, I doubt people would be as careless about binding them and magic items empowered by bound elementals would also have a bigger influence on their owners just as infernal and demonic items tend to have. An elemental bound to an item though might very well develop a limited form of sentience due to its close contact with mortals.

If you want to make the elemental in the PC's ship unique, you could have him accidentally (or on purpose if the PCs does his research) summon an elemental who was bound to an item in Eberron ages ago, but that had been destroyed. The elemental is curious about what happened to the place, and an airship is definitely the place to wander around and see things ;) In that case, you could build his personality on that of the titans of Xen'drik or a drow and/or elves. He will have forgotten most things, maybe feeling sad about it, but if you need it for an adventure, he might remember something important, like the location of a particular ruin or item.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 paulos Sep 20, 2010 15:02:56	Anybody know any details about how the High Binders of Zilargo actually do the binding? What happens? One of my player's PC is developing into a High Binder who wants to bind elementals to Khyber shards. The PC in question wants to eventually bind the elemental that will power the party's hard-won airship. He hopes to develop a relationship with the elemental that proves more cooperative than just subduing it to slavery. I'm imagining the bonding ritual in Avatar, by which the main character earns the faithfulness and trust of his flying mount in a deadly combat/contest of strength and skill. What mechanics do you think I should use for PCs attempts at binding and the Binding skills that grow through practice? My preliminary ideas are below. Tentative Mechanics of High Binding: I'm thinking of khybershards like pokeballs (yes pokemon), where increasing quality/size of khyber shard makes the job easier (poke ball, master ball, etc) I like the idea of the elemental having to fail 3 saves, but they'll start with crazy bonuses that have to be whittled down through battle and ingenuity. * Say elementals start with a level+20 bonus to saves vs binding (making them impossible to catch by just anybody). * The binder can take a standard action while adjacent to the elemental to begin binding, forcing the creature to begin make saves. When it succeeds at a save, the process must be started over. * Reducing an elemental to 0hp disperses its energy. There is no subdual damage/knocking out at 0hp for elementals. Powers that deal damage must deal damage. [sblock Effects that impose save penalties (penalties stack unless noted):] Any PC (other than the binder) speaks Primordial: -1 Binder speaks Primordial: -2 Any PC (other than the binder) has Mark of Scribing: -1 Binder has Mark of Scribing: -2 Elemental is slowed: -1 to binding save Elemental is immobilized: -2 Elemental is dazed: -2 Elemental is prone: -2 (separate from CA) Elemental is granting combat advantage to binder: -2 Elemental is restrained: -5 Elemental is stunned: -5 Elemental is "unconscious": -5 (prone and CA count seperately) Elemental is grabbed: -1 per person grabbing (cumulative, though grabbing an elemental will deal ongoing damage) Damage: (penalties don't stack) Elemental is =< 3/4 hp: -1 Elemental is =< bloodied: -2 Elemental is =< 1/4 hp: -5 (Should these penalties be greater? The elemental will become more dangerous as it's HP drops. Also, if it dies, the whole deal is off. Is -2/-5/-10 too good?) Shard is tiny/poor: elemental gets +2 to saves vs binding Shard is small/average: No penalty/no bonus Shard is medium/Fair: -1 to saves Shard is large/Excellent: -3 Shard is huge/Flawless: -5 Tapping: Technology allows "tapping" or augmenting the shard but doing so risks destroying the shard. Roll d8 after the elemental succeeds on a save. Shard is tapped (stage 1): -2 or Shard penalty x2 (Roll 1 on a d8 shatters shard) Shard is tapped (stage 2): -5 or Shard penalty x3 (Roll 1-4 on a d8 shatters shard) Shard is tapped (stage 3): -10 or Shard penalty x4 (Shard shatters unless elemental fails save) Any PC succeeds on a Diplomacy, Bluff, Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance check (standard action): Moderate -1/Hard -2 (x2 if binder does it) Any PC succeeds on an Arcana, or Intimidate check: Moderate -2/Hard -4 (x2 if binder does it)[/sblock] What do you think? What am I missing? How can this be cooler, more cinematic, and yet simple and believable? Is there an easier way of doing this? Other Options: I haven't included anything about the binder's Binding skill aside from the skill checks. Should a binder get a seperate "Binder Level" that becomes a penalty? (Elemental takes a penalty to saves vs binding equal to the Binder's Binder Level) Can PCs consider the elemental an ally to heal it if it is getting close to dying?
#2 Alex_ Sep 20, 2010 22:38:22	From the images I've seen, I always considered binding kind of a negotiation. That, or sheer force of will between the binder and the elemental. Summoning the elemental to begin with would clearly be a ritual. The actual process of binding it could be played out a variety of ways. You could fight it in one on one combat, which I would treat like normal combat. Once defeated, the elemental-whether "slain" or KO'ed- is still defeated/disabled and can be bound. Or use a skill challenge with use of Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, and Arcana to force/trick/convince the elemental to be bound after a given number of successes before so many failures. I'd advise against a seperate binding stat. To represent inmproved binding abilities, just make a feat or something that gives a +X bonus to all d20 rolls made when attempting to bind an elemental.
#3 Madfox11 Sep 21, 2010 5:00:37	I remember reading a short fantasy story (non Eberron) were an elemental binder gets an elemental to bond with the promise to explore the world. Granted, the elemental is depicted as a bit of an oddball in being curious about the world of those wizards who constantly summon and bind elementals, but it is certainly a motive you can work with ;) As for the PC, personally I would not detail it as some kind of class ability. At most I would detail it as a ritual, starting with the creation of a Magic Cirle to bind the elemental, then a different ritual to summon it in the circle, followed by a binding ritual. The summoning and binding ritual combined would cost about as much as creating the magic item in question and would cost about as much time as the Enchant Item ritual. The binding ritual would be cheaper and easier if the elemental volluntarily binds with the shard, and I would design some kind of short skill challenge/RP scene with which the PC negotiates with the elemental (obviously requiring the ability to speak and understand Primordial). Obviously, PCs researching elemental names and personalities beforehand, even visiting the Elemental Chaos, would get some serious bonusses. My suggestion would be something like a 20% reduction in costs, although, it probably would be more balanced to keep the cost the same and let the ship be easier to manouver and control with a friendly elemental. I really would not design a skill (which will never be used), nor a long complicated process to simulate the ritual. It is complicated, you will likely need it once (even if the player wants to create more elemental bindings, spending much time on it is usually only interesting the first time) and it hardly matters for the end result. Mind you, the first step would be to either find the necessary rituals in Xen'drik ruins or get the gnomes to reveal their secrets, and that would be an adventure or two in itself ;)
#4 paulos Sep 21, 2010 8:04:38	Thanks for the responses so far. A follow-up question that you're making me think about now is this: How do I depict elemental personalities? Are they more than just "Rwaaaaaaaaar, burning burning burning!" Should they have motivations, ambitions, desires, regrets, emotions, needs? If so what are these for an elemental? These questions stump me. Clearly I'd like the party to ultimately have a friendly/interesting NPC for their ship's elemental, but how much sentience and personality can I give a being of pure/raw elemental energy?
#5 Madfox11 Sep 22, 2010 4:14:41	An alien one? ;) Anyway, most elementals have a rather limited intelligence, and I would imagine that their personalities do not go much beyond your "burn burn burn". I think they are working on an instinct level, but that they are just more intelligent about it. If they were more sapient, I doubt people would be as careless about binding them and magic items empowered by bound elementals would also have a bigger influence on their owners just as infernal and demonic items tend to have. An elemental bound to an item though might very well develop a limited form of sentience due to its close contact with mortals. If you want to make the elemental in the PC's ship unique, you could have him accidentally (or on purpose if the PCs does his research) summon an elemental who was bound to an item in Eberron ages ago, but that had been destroyed. The elemental is curious about what happened to the place, and an airship is definitely the place to wander around and see things ;) In that case, you could build his personality on that of the titans of Xen'drik or a drow and/or elves. He will have forgotten most things, maybe feeling sad about it, but if you need it for an adventure, he might remember something important, like the location of a particular ruin or item.