Hi,
Being a huge fan of Eberron back in the days of 3.5, i've decided to switch on to Eberron 4e. Overall, I think they did a pretty good job and respected a lot the setting (if we compare with FR)... BUT what the hell have they done to the Aereni Elves !? Undying court being undead ?! Aerenal Feat that boost necrotic damage ??? Jesus why? They could have kept the deathless powered by positive energy concept and converted the "positive energy" by radiant and thus a feat that boost radiant damage...
I don't understand this change... deathless were awesome. Can someone give me a theory or some arguments about this change ?
Thank in advance and sorry for my troll attitude, it's just I'm a little bit sensitive when people touch my Eberron :P
It's all about how you choose to depict powers, damage type, and keywords. Mechanically speaking, the deathless will be classified as undead, since that still includes all the pros and cons of undeath. But don't confuse game mechanics with setting lore. How they become deathless woudn't have been the same way normal undead become undead. There would presumably be a ritual (likely not statted out for PCs to use) that creates them. And it's just Aereni magic, not evil, necromantic rites.
Incidentally, there'll be an article going up on Dragon in this next issue (issue #397) called "Faith and Heresy," written by myself and Ken Hart. Although the article is mostly about cleric and divine classes, it also includes a sidebar that discusses a similar topic to this thread. Basically it asks the question, "Just what is radiance?" and defines it.
It's all about getting past the cliches of light vs. dark. It's all about how you spin it. Mechanically speaking, it's all neutral.
As radiant damage can be portrayed as sinister, so too can necrotic damage be seen as a force of good that withers and destroys evil or corrupted life.
Just sayin'.
Incidentally, there'll be an article going up on Dragon in this next issue (issue #397) called "Faith and Heresy," written by myself and Ken Hart.
I'm really looking forward to this! Thanks for the update, Jeff.
I had the same issue come up in reverse in my campaign, where we had a PC paladin of the Blood of Vol and the question came up whether his powers should deal radiant damage. My ruling was yes. he drew that power from the divine spark within his blood, and whenever he uses radiant powers the light would be bloody crimson - but ultimately it remained pure divine energy, and hence radiant.
With that said, as Jeff suggests in the second post, I am a huge believer in reflavoring powers and creatures. That same campaign had a Lyrandar warlock (back before storm sorcerers), and we just used Infernal and changed everything "fire" to "lightning". So if the necrotic thing bothers you, change it.
As a side note, the boost-to-necrotc-damage feat only comes into play if you're using a power that deals necrotic damage. So one way to look at this is that the Aereni are masters of necromantic magic, setting aside their channel to the divine. After all, the Line of Vol - arguably some of the greatest necromancers Eberron has ever seen - were themselves Aereni elves. Setting aside the undead nature of the councilors themselves, the divine force of the Undying Court - and the power its clerics channel - is radiant. The fact that the expert-in-working-with-the-undead Aereni also know how to fine-tune necrotic energies isn't necessarily at odds with that. They understand life, death, and the divine - and manipulate the energies of all three.
Incidentally, there'll be an article going up on Dragon in this next issue (issue #397) called "Faith and Heresy," written by myself and Ken Hart.
I'm really looking forward to this! Thanks for the update, Jeff.
I had the same issue come up in reverse in my campaign, where we had a PC paladin of the Blood of Vol and the question came up whether his powers should deal radiant damage. My ruling was yes. he drew that power from the divine spark within his blood, and whenever he uses radiant powers the light would be bloody crimson - but ultimately it remained pure divine energy, and hence radiant.
Interesting. That's the same solution my group came up with for a cleric of the Raven Queen.
Now that undead, necrotic power, and the shadowpower source are not longer so explictly evil in the core game, the mechanical moral distinctions between the Light/Dark aspects of Aereni death magic is likewise effected.
Incidentally, there'll be an article going up on Dragon in this next issue (issue #397) called "Faith and Heresy," written by myself and Ken Hart. Although the article is mostly about cleric and divine classes, it also includes a sidebar that discusses a similar topic to this thread. Basically it asks the question, "Just what is radiance?" and defines it.
I saw that on the content calander, and was looking forward to it.
I saw that on the content calander, and was looking forward to it.
We worked hard on it.
It's essentially an exploration of the fact that in 4E clerics can't be stripped of their divine powers if they stop doing what they're supposed to be doing, as clerics. (Or any divine class character.) Not like the old days. So what happens if you're a cleric of Bahamut and you decide you don't feel all that lawful any more? Or, more fun, you're a cleric of Vecna and you decide, "You know what? I don't want to be evil anymore. I'd like to use my Vecna-given powers against Vecna and his minions!"The funny thing is, for Eberron, not much has to change. It's already set up where you can be an evil cleric of the Silver Flame or a lawful good paladin of the Blood of Vol. Or heck, why not a goodly avenger of the Devourer? What repurcussions would there be?
I saw that on the content calander, and was looking forward to it.
We worked hard on it. It's essentially an exploration of the fact that in 4E clerics can't be stripped of their divine powers if they stop doing what they're supposed to be doing, as clerics. (Or any divine class character.)
I always just wrote it up as the fact that you aren't actually granted powers by gods. You undergo rites of investiture, which opens a conduit between yourself and the Astral Sea (which also explains why all divine characters get radiant powers). This didn't really work for invokers, so ... I changed invokers.
I always just wrote it up as the fact that you aren't actually granted powers by gods. You undergo rites of investiture, which opens a conduit between yourself and the Astral Sea (which also explains why all divine characters get radiant powers).
That's basically right. The wording in various sources aren't contraditory, but they're not perfectly clear either. But essentially, powers stem from that first ritual/ordination a cleric undertakes. Where that power came from can be debated, but few would doubt it has something to do with the gods.
In any case, I don't want to get off-topic. We were talking about Undying, deathless, and the undead.