Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 That_Blasted_Somoflange Apr 02, 2009 10:06:54	To start off, I'm one of those people that really likes 4e. In fact, I think 4e is doing everything better than the previous version. This isn't meant to start another flame war, mind you only state my preference. That being said, there is one thing that I feel 3.5 did better than 4e. Shifters. In 3.5, back when Eberron first came out shifters were really cool. You could make a different type of shifter based on whatever werecreature you wanted, or combination thereof. In 4e they've been reduced to either were cat or were wolf lineage. They've lost some of that magic. With that, here's my attempt to put some of that magic back in, and recapture the feel that shifters had in Eberron. So here they are: (Eberronian) Shifter Ferocious heirs of the wild, the perfect fusion of civilized race and wild beast RACIAL TRAITS Average Height: 5´ 7˝–6´ 0˝ Average Weight: 130–180 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance Lycanthropic Heritage: You may choose one shifting trait (you can choose others with the Metis shifting feat) that you display when you use the Bestial Shifting power. You gain the Bestial Shifting Power Bestial Shifting You tap into your lycanthropic heritage, releasing the inner beast Encounter Minor Action Personal Effect: Spend a healing surge, but do not gain the hit points instead you can now use one of the following shiftings (chosen at first level). If you have multiple shifings you can use them all at once, but you must spend a healing surge for each bonus. Sustain Minor Longstride: You increase your speed by 2. This increases to 3 at 11th level and 4 at 21st. Razorclaw: Your claws elongate and sharpen, giving you a natural weapon with +2 to hit, 1d8 damage. The bonus to hit increases to +4 at 11th level, and +6 at 21st You must have at least one free hand to use this power. Beasthide: You gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value and a +1 bonus to all defenses. Longtooth: You teeth elongate giving you a natural weapon that is +2 to hit, 1d6 damage and if you hit, the opponent is grabbed. If the opponent breaks free from the grab they take another 1d6 damage. The bonus to hit increases to +4 at 11th level, and +6 at 21st level. Cliffwalk: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed, as well you can reroll any athletics checks made to climb. You must take the second roll regardless if better or worse. Wildhunt: You ignore the penalties for concealment and total concealment, also you may reroll any perceptions checks, but you must keep the second result regardless. Truedive: You gain a swim speed equal to your speed, as well you gain a +5 bonus to all endurance checks made to hold your breath. Gorebrute: You grow horns and can add your strength bonus to damage on charge attacks, as well as knock the target prone. Dreamsight: You gain blindsight 2. This increased to blindsight 4 at 11th level, and blindsight 6 at 21st. Swiftwing: You grow leathery wings similar to a bats. You treat all jump checks as well as you had a running start, as well you may use the acrobatic checks as if you were trained to avoid falling damage. If you are trained in acrobatics you gain a +5 bonus to checks made to avoid falling damage. So that is it. P.E.A.C.H. is now in effect. Edit: Forgot details for the Metis Shifting feat. Metis Shifting You may choose this feat more than once. Edit 2: amended the issue with spending a healing surge.
#2 AvonRekaes Apr 02, 2009 10:34:22	Looks cool. Definately captures the feel of 3.5 shifters better than the official one. Some points: Did you mean spend a healing surge, in which you gain your healing surge value in hit points, or lose a healing surge, in which you deduct one surge from your daily alotment and gain no healing from it? In 4e rulespeak, "spend"ing a healing surge always heals you, no matter what else happens because you spent it, unless specifically said otherwise. ("Spend a healing surge but you gain no benefit. Instead blah blah blah") Also, what's the duration on shifting? I assume you want them to last for the encounter, but it's never stated. As for Gorebrute, I'm a little confused as to what you're getting your strength bonus on. Damage? Attack roll?
#3 salla Apr 02, 2009 10:55:24	In 4e they've been reduced to either were cat or were wolf lineage. That's only fluff, and fluff is mutable. You can most definitely say your shifter is descended from wererats, werebears, or were-anything-else-you're-in-the-mood-for. For all the rules care, your longtooth shifter can be part wereshark and your razorclaw from a werefox. Be thee not bound by flavor text.
#4 That_Blasted_Somoflange Apr 02, 2009 11:05:44	Looks cool. Definately captures the feel of 3.5 shifters better than the official one. Some points: Did you mean spend a healing surge, in which you gain your healing surge value in hit points, or lose a healing surge, in which you deduct one surge from your daily alotment and gain no healing from it? In 4e rulespeak, "spend"ing a healing surge always heals you, no matter what else happens because you spent it, unless specifically said otherwise. ("Spend a healing surge but you gain no benefit. Instead blah blah blah") Yeah.. I missed that when I typed it up. Put the caveat about NOT gaining hitpoints from the healing surge. Also, what's the duration on shifting? I assume you want them to last for the encounter, but it's never stated. It is actually a sustain minor action - I see shifting as tapping into your bestial nature, which lessens your control somewhat - hence the sustain minor. As for Gorebrute, I'm a little confused as to what you're getting your strength bonus on. Damage? Attack roll? It's actually a bonus to damage. Poor wording, will fix that. That's only fluff, and fluff is mutable. You can most definitely say your shifter is descended from wererats, werebears, or were-anything-else-you're-in-the-mood-for. For all the rules care, your longtooth shifter can be part wereshark and your razorclaw from a werefox. Be thee not bound by flavor text. I understand... but the names of races are generally evocative of what a race does. Longtooth, and razorclaw evoke images of someone with really large teeth or really sharp claws. Neither of which are given to either race. Also, with the reference to were-cats and were-wolves the traits don't match up with either of these animals either. The regeneration, is a trait of all were-creatures, but then should be given to all shifters.
#5 AvonRekaes Apr 02, 2009 15:51:56	Ah, sorry, missed the sustain minor. Honestly I'm not sure I'd do it that way. It makes Shifter a poor choice for certain classes that rely on sustain minor powers, such as Wizard, or classes that summon and have to give up actions to make their summoned monsters do things, like Wizards (again) and Invokers. Actually, when I first read it and missed the sustain duration, I was about to suggest making it a Stance, but then decided not to, since that would make Shifters a poor choice for classes with lots of stance powers, like Fighter (since you can only have one Stance active at a time, and new ones end previous ones). While I'm not suggesting that all races are perfect fits for all classes, I do think that having your racial power constructed in such a way as to not actively interfere with any class would be a smart idea. Also, the cost of having to lose a healing surge is big enough to just let them have shifting to the end of the encounter (or five minutes if outside an encounter). And Salla, I think Somoflange is entitled to his distaste of whatever he finds distasteful. And rather than be a troll about it, he's chosen to do something constructive and share his houserules with us, with the hopes that we might give him insight and feedback to make it better. Whether you disagree with what he finds distasteful is irrelevant.
#6 That_Blasted_Somoflange Apr 02, 2009 18:20:15	Ah, sorry, missed the sustain minor. Honestly I'm not sure I'd do it that way. It makes Shifter a poor choice for certain classes that rely on sustain minor powers, such as Wizard, or classes that summon and have to give up actions to make their summoned monsters do things, like Wizards (again) and Invokers. No worries about missing it. I had originally put it into each entry, but thought that was a bit much. I did think about classes that use a lot of sustains, I thought about the NPC Baristi who was a shifter wizard in the Eberron Campaign Guide 3.5, and I figured that the sustain minor was a good representation of letting the more bestial side out and acting more on instinct than on concentration. Maintaining a wall of fire uses up a bit more higher brain function than clawing someones face off with your bare hands, likewise it's hard to give direction to a summoned creature when your teeth are around someones throat. Actually, when I first read it and missed the sustain duration, I was about to suggest making it a Stance, but then decided not to, since that would make Shifters a poor choice for classes with lots of stance powers, like Fighter (since you can only have one Stance active at a time, and new ones end previous ones). Another problem with stances is that they are, as far as I've noticed, all daily powers. While the sustain minor does hamper some of the spell casting classes, Shifters do have more of a martial and primal bent. While I'm not suggesting that all races are perfect fits for all classes, I do think that having your racial power constructed in such a way as to not actively interfere with any class would be a smart idea. I do agree. It is a hard thing to do. As it is, I think the shifters we have are very much relying on classes that get hit a lot. The 4e versions require you to literally have the snot beat out of you for you to be given the chance to activate them. For instance, if you are a shifter wizard, and have a defender that is doing a really good at what they do - you could potentially NEVER use your racial power. While that is all fine and good from a roleplaying aspect, you could have just easily played a human and said you were a shifter. Having a power you don't use is similar to buying a new car, only to put it in storage and never drive it. Sure you can do that, but isn't it kind of a waste? I still think that Shifters have a martial/primal bent and can focus more on that. Gnomes are good example of a race that is somewhat pigeonholed. They are poor choices for heavily armoured characters as the become extremely slow in heavy armour. You can do it, but there are some disadvantages. Also, the cost of having to lose a healing surge is big enough to just let them have shifting to the end of the encounter (or five minutes if outside an encounter). The healing surge is in a way prevent someone form min/maxing too much. Like the 3.5 shifters, I intend my 4e version to be able to manifest multiple shifter traits all at once - since it is an encounter power. The healing surges limit the number of traits you can use at once, without out limiting you, if you know what I mean. To be clear, if you are about to fight the BBEG, and have an excess of healing surges you could manifest your claws, fangs, and speed to fight the end guy, that is 3 healing surges plus a sustain minor. But, if you are just trying to run through a trap, or away from a big rolling boulder you'd only expend 1 healing surge for the run. You may not even need to sustain it. I tried to design the shifter with versatility in mind, and able to accomplish everything a 3.5 shifter could do, without letting it succumb to munchkinism. Perhaps I should add in some minor healing of 5+ the number of shifter traits you activated when you end the power. After all you are expending a precious healing surge, and lycanthropes do have regeneration. So, if you expend the a fore mentioned 3 healing surges to get the claws, teeth and speed you heal a little bit extra. Hmmm... While I sat here typing this response, I got an idea, well partially from a friend of mine. I could make the beasthide not give temporary hit points and instead give damage reduction 5 at 1st, 10 at 11th, 15 at 21st respectively. Also, I thought to give the bestial shifter power a number of temporary hit points equal to 5 per shifter trait used. So you get something for expending the healing surge. As it is I intend to keep the sustain minor, unless I can think of a good way to portray shifting. A stance is out, and making the powers last for the encounter makes the power a default 'Do this first' choice, which I want to avoid. Yes, the sustain minor penalized certain caster types, but overall I think the pros outweigh the cons. And Salla, I think Somoflange is entitled to his distaste of whatever he finds distasteful. And rather than be a troll about it, he's chosen to do something constructive and share his houserules with us, with the hopes that we might give him insight and feedback to make it better. Whether you disagree with what he finds distasteful is irrelevant. Well, thank you very much, not only do I appreciate the sentiment, I appreciate all the constructive criticism you have given. Hopefully some others out there want to give some as well.