Putting the 'Pulp' Into Eberron - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dargurd Oct 03, 2008 23:45:42	Hi All, Ok something ive never quite got figured out is how to put the 'pulp' into Eberron. Can anyone offer any advice please ? As a help im going to be using North East Karrnath as my new campaign region and the Emerald Claw are the main antagonists - how do i make the have a 'pulp' feel ? Regards...
#2 skrap-san Oct 04, 2008 5:05:37	Well I tend to resort to fantastic battles atop moving trains on a hunt for lost artifacts... a bit like Indiana Jones actually. This thread really helped me out a great deal http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=726060 Other than that i have no other suggestions than to watch the list of movies that is mentioned in the campaign setting. At least not on the top of my head.
#3 Amaril Oct 04, 2008 11:40:05	Imagine Indiana Jones having to go into Germany to retrieve an artifact of significant power while fighting and escaping Nazis throughout the adventure. Use high action chase scenes, have the adventure lead into some remote locations such as a Dhakanni ruin, a lost dwarven hold or even the Fist of Onatar. Consider elements such as a traitorous spy, double-crosses, and other acts of betrayal. Perhaps someone assumed to be a trusted friend and ally ends up sabotaging the party's progress, or stealing the artifact from them after retrieving it. Essentially, watch Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
#4 inkblot Oct 04, 2008 12:32:37	Also, make all the encounters way over the top and don't be afraid to be cheesy.
#5 skrap-san Oct 04, 2008 15:21:50	don't be afraid to be cheesy. I try to be a bit cheesy actually. Always good for morale... And an important note, pay atention to the location of the battles. 20x20ft rooms is never really interesting. Now if this room was having spiked pit traps opening on random now and then. That would be a different story... So basically yeah make it as memorable as possible.
#6 Dargurd Oct 05, 2008 0:56:42	Thanks for the help and advice guys it is appreciatated. So far im thinking of using the Emerald Claw as the "nazis" although on a covert scale at first. As they are outlawed I dont see them particularly marching down the street just yet. Although taking on board some of the comments im thinking at least 2 local people who may befried the characters could be members... As for over the top - well the first adventure which will teach the guys 4ed rules (hopefully) as they start onboard an elemental ship crossing Lake Dark at night when it is attacked by some nameless tentacled beastie - the players will only ever see the dark shape of the main bulk as they contend with the writhing mass off tentacles on the deck and around the ship - is that pulp enough ? When they arrive in Lakeside im planning on having a scene akin to "Gangs of New York" as the Irish arrive. - treat the non Karrns with distain and hostility and see where that takes them... Does that sound ok ?
#7 skrap-san Oct 05, 2008 7:17:36	Sounds like I wish I could play in your group. (so yes its OK).
#8 Amaril Oct 05, 2008 9:30:54	Ditto! I think that sounds like a lot of fun. One thing you might consider about the Emerald Claw is treating them like neo-Nazis or post-war Nazis who are shunned by their own nation but still fanatical in their own beliefs.
#9 inkblot Oct 08, 2008 16:04:27	As for over the top - well the first adventure which will teach the guys 4ed rules (hopefully) as they start onboard an elemental ship crossing Lake Dark at night when it is attacked by some nameless tentacled beastie - the players will only ever see the dark shape of the main bulk as they contend with the writhing mass off tentacles on the deck and around the ship - is that pulp enough? Almost! The tentacles rock the ship, lifting it halfway out of the water, threatening to capsize it if the players don't hack away the tentacles fast enough. And when they do, SPLOOSH! the ship slams back down into the water. Halfway through the fight the beast rises out of the water and bites the ship in half! Do this when the beast is bloodied -- and in the round before be sure to describe how the deck of the ship is slick with the its blood. Then it's body remains at least partially out of the water, at least for a round or two, so all the PCs can heroically fend it off.
#10 Dargurd Oct 08, 2008 23:17:58	Almost! The tentacles rock the ship, lifting it halfway out of the water, threatening to capsize it if the players don't hack away the tentacles fast enough. And when they do, SPLOOSH! the ship slams back down into the water. Halfway through the fight the beast rises out of the water and bites the ship in half! Do this when the beast is bloodied -- and in the round before be sure to describe how the deck of the ship is slick with the its blood. Then it's body remains at least partially out of the water, at least for a round or two, so all the PCs can heroically fend it off. Hehe I like that a lot - might keep the ship still just about sea worthy at the end though as I need that to get them into the campaign proper so to speak.
#11 Ogiwan Oct 09, 2008 0:23:48	Hah. My last session was pulp as hell, and was nothing more than two skill checks. Both the same one, too, the "urban chase" from the DMG. The first one was a rooftop chase scene, the second a chase up the stairs to the airship docking tower. .....which, of course, caught on fire in mid-chase, beginning to topple over on the last turn and necessitating everybody to jump the widening gap........
#12 Dargurd Oct 09, 2008 0:38:47	.....which, of course, caught on fire in mid-chase, beginning to topple over on the last turn and necessitating everybody to jump the widening gap........ Always the sort of the thing to generate lots of shouts of dispair from players as each makes their die rolls...
#13 skrap-san Oct 11, 2008 11:52:00	Thats what I like about threads like these. It generate so many good ideas. I never got around to using this boss in 3.5th but I most likely will use it in this campaign, and it all goes like this. At the end of a jungletreck into the Shadow marches the players catch up with the bad guys (cults of dragon bellow/emerald claw what ever you need) Here they will perform a ancient ritual of some sort to awaken a sleeping halfgod of some sort in an old abandoned temple. (i used a awakened huge wiper (size huge) fiendish half dragon). Then at the top of the temple it starts to rain, and a priest opens the portal to release the sleeping dragon thing. Now the players have to stop it from coming through. Also i had placed 4 statues that everytime someone died it gave the boss 4hp back. One for each statue (and a visual clue). And at the beginning you have to have the obvious leader gets eaten by called god. Now that i think about it a rhaja would be cool to use for this.
#14 kawnell Oct 11, 2008 18:42:12	I brought the "critical miss" to the table. When running the planned encounter, when a 1 gets rolled, the action heats up more. That's when things explode for no reason, the enemy gets reinforced, the baby in the stroller comes rolling through, the horses bolt, the three-horns stampede, the town guard comes to investigate, the dam breaks, the sliding wall trap (that takes a minute to complete) gets triggered . . . I run it for the villians too, cause it's when the good guys can catch their break. I found I had to cap it to only 1-3 events/encounter to keep things from going too far, but the expressions from the PCs when that 1 gets rolled (even if I'm not going to add to the challenge) is great. And No, it's not like the old fumble tables which were really frustrating. Have Fun
#15 Ogiwan Oct 16, 2008 7:46:04	Oooo, need to do a crusher trap with skeletons occupying the PCs attention.......
#16 grug_the_just Oct 17, 2008 22:56:25	I think this is the main problem I've been dealing with since 4e. Now don't jump to conclusions, I love 4e. However, the adventures thus far are lacking that pulp feel. As such I'm putting an Eberron Pulp spin on Thunderspire Labyrinth. I mean, hey, I bought it, might as well breath some life and grit into it. More on point though, pulp in Eberron, I feel, is the most integral part of the feel of Eberron. Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D
#17 Dargurd Oct 18, 2008 0:05:42	More on point though, pulp in Eberron, I feel, is the most integral part of the feel of Eberron. Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D Cheese is good as is a bit of HAM acting sometimes, along with the end of adventure bad guy giving endless monologues about how you should not have crossed him...ahh i soooo love Eberron adventures.
#18 Ogiwan Oct 19, 2008 16:27:16	Well, I think a pretty valid thing to do would be to imagine your session as a movie. Your PCs are still you're audience, they're just more involved than they would be in a movie.
#19 Gilo Oct 19, 2008 19:23:15	I try to put some twists and turns in my combat encounters in an attempt to advance the pulp feel. I'll share some recent encounters: Its early morning and the PCs are sleeping on the second floor of the Inn (after a couple of days of fighting Kobolds in the woods), one of the PC is awakened by someone knocking loudly and rudely on his door - annoyed he opens the door and find himself face to face with a Zombie holding its own slab of tombstone which quickly comes down towards the PC's head ... The rest of the PCs are awaken and the fight quickly moves from the second floor to the main hall (note that the PCs are not wearing much at this point) where they find another Zombie nibbling on a corpse behind the bar ... the fight continues in the street where the PCs notice two of the town's guards helplessly trying to close the town's gates in the face of another wave of Zombies ... the fight is over and the gates are closed (I'm skipping over a small side story here regarding a dragonshard powered siege tower moving along the inner town wall) but its clear that the source of the undead is the nearby military graveyard (where many Karrnathi Last War soldiers are buried) ... the PCs pickup there gear and travel to investigate. The graveyard encounter was run as in the KotS adventure which I use as the base adventure framework, with two changes (KotS spoiler alert): 1. (I can't take credit for this someone mentioned this idea in his adventure blog) for each round in the encounter a magical circle (with the Blood of Vol symbol) pulse with necrotic energies and the GM rolls a 1d6 (its important to do the roll in front of the players) and adds the result as the amount of Zombie minions spawned from there graves all around the PCs (which starts a scary race against time). 2. The PCs rolled Religion and Arcane skill checks to find out how to stop the circle - the answer was simple: they only need to drop a bit of blood on the circle to counter its effect, the only catch - they needed human blood (and only one of my PCs is human which was nowhere close to circle and surrounded by zombies). on a side pulp note - both the Eladrin PC and the Warlock used there teleportation abilities to get on the roof of a nearby musaleum (where they rolled acrobatics checks to keep from slipping over the diagonal wet rooftop). I'll try and add the shadowfell Manifestations ideas, Xoriat spellworm encounter, earthquake tremors and the ghost of the girl that teleported into a wall pulp-horror side-trek when I have more time.
#20 Kensan_Oni Oct 19, 2008 22:17:51	The other suggestion is listen to old Radio Serials, like Your Truely Johnny Dollar, and Dragnet. They also have a very pulp feel to them, and their pacing probably works better in some ways then Indiana Jones movies. Also, make sure to get in some Classic Pirate Movies. THey can help get that feel, too. ... and read some Lensman and Doc Savage while you're at it...
#21 PJammaGod Oct 20, 2008 7:08:58	Remember to have plenty of rain. The more the better ;) . Fighting against insurmountable odds is a good way to go, leave the heroes with a quest where they succeeded, but it wasn't in the way they expected or it didn't turn out 100% good. Bad-taste tendings are very much the pulp-noir way. Did I mention rain :P ?
#22 m4kitsu Oct 21, 2008 3:25:26	Rain, yes, and dialogue. How the people of the world talk can make a huge difference to the feel and flavor of a game. example I found her at some fleece joint by the pole, chinning a bunch of out-of-town flavor to some bad end over a bottle of giggle juice, looking as good as the day she said goodbye. I was the cheapest mug in the joint by about a lifetime and stuck out like a bindle punk's thumb, and I knew it wouldn't take Kinsey long to pipe me, so I copped a table near the window and nibbled a cup of tal while she finished off the tourists. I caught her move in the window's reflection, coming at me like a summer storm once she'd scattered the flock, not even trying to pretend she didn't know me. "You got a lotta nerve showing your face up here," her way of hello. I gave the tal a grin and drained the last of it. "Good to see you too, Kinsey. Not even gonna ask how I am?" She grabbed the other chair and spun it, before sitting down to face me over its back, flashing a lot of leg out either side of the glad rags she'd buttoned on. "I know how you are, Cole: trouble. What do you want?" "I got comfy with a new dame down by the river, wanted to know if maybe you'd piped any numbers who'd be wise to it. Fancy twist, not just somebody who could pull a karrn act or get shuffled without anybody noticing." She took a slant, then turned back to me, voice hurried and hushed. "Clam, ya dumb egg! You can't just go pushing buttons and pawing peaches up here, not out in the open. Maybe it works in the creep joints you like, but up here it's as like to get you to go for a dive as anything just on principle." She sighed, losing steam, and I saw a little of that sapphire sparkle back in her eyes from the old days. "Look, you said your little dish went for a swim, right?" I nodded. "Fine. I'll ask, but you gotta believe I'm on the square if I say I know from nothing, okay?" "Yeah, that's flat." "I mean it, Cole. You get your ideas about a body, and I gotta know I'm not ranked with the rest of your stoolies." She locked my eyes until I broke and looked away. "Kinsey... I'd never..." "Then prove it. You still grifting at Fitz's place?" "I... yeah." "Good. I'll drop a horn your way if I get the rap up here. You need to find me again, buzz me here and keep it dormy," she said, handing me a card with expensive ink and an expensive address on it. "and no games. The high pillows catch you on any funny business and there won't be anything left to turn over to the hammer and saws." And then she was gone, trotting off through the place like I'd never happened, smiles and waves to the rest of the mugs in the joint, just hammering home how far apart we were. Still, she was good for her word and had me crabbed; if any of her pigeons knew about my dame, I'd get another horse at my door in a day or two.
#23 the_sentin3l Oct 21, 2008 10:31:41	Snip lyrical genius. You, my friend, have my utmost respect for your post. Such a brillant description for pulp there has never been. But yeah, honestly, brilliant stuff. I love your use idea of using slang. Not something I personally would have thought of. So good on you for that. And your intro story was brilliant. Any chance of actually getting any more of that, either through PM or on here?
#24 Ogiwan Oct 21, 2008 11:15:39	I also agree with M4kitsu's post. Hell, I've run pretty much an entire session with just two skill checks (see farther up on this thread). Concerning the comeback thing, one of the suggestions I love from 7th Sea is that a player gives the DM the "trigger", be it a spoken one or a physical one, and then the DM tries to work in the trigger to his session so the player can drop it on the party without batting an eyelash. An example would be as such: The "trigger" would be, "If I was your wife, I would put poison in your coffee!" The DM works that into a session, and when an NPC says that, the player can immediatly, because he worked it out ahead of time, retort with, "If I was your husband, I'd drink it!" That has been historically attributed to Churchill, by the by. Still, if you want witty repartee, something like that would probably serve well.
#25 inkblot Oct 22, 2008 2:11:04	Remember to have plenty of rain. The more the better ;) . Fighting against insurmountable odds is a good way to go, leave the heroes with a quest where they succeeded, but it wasn't in the way they expected or it didn't turn out 100% good. Bad-taste tendings are very much the pulp-noir way. Bad-taste endings and lots of rain are very much on the Noir side of pulp-noir.
#26 PJammaGod Oct 22, 2008 2:13:35	M4kitsu you did an S grade (above A+++ grade) job of describing just how pulp noir should sound, feel and taste. To be honest I'm going to ninja what you described on conversation and the use of slang and apply it to my campaign, since the party will be travelling back to Sharn within the next few months (real-time). Some awesome stuff, hopefully it'll get transplanted into the ECS 4e to help people understand just what pulp noir should be!
#27 m4kitsu Oct 22, 2008 6:39:21	Thank you all for the kind words. I know well my own tendency to the lack of brevity and the proclivity of many here to skip me for it. Concerning the comeback thing, one of the suggestions I love from 7th Sea is that a player gives the DM the "trigger", be it a spoken one or a physical one, and then the DM tries to work in the trigger to his session so the player can drop it on the party without batting an eyelash. An example would be as such: The "trigger" would be, "If I was your wife, I would put poison in your coffee!" The DM works that into a session, and when an NPC says that, the player can immediatly, because he worked it out ahead of time, retort with, "If I was your husband, I'd drink it!" That has been historically attributed to Churchill, by the by. Still, if you want witty repartee, something like that would probably serve well. You may be completely not surprised to learn that 7th Sea is probably my favorite RPG ever, and it's probably been a bad influence on my DMing other systems. However, this is excellent advice, and as it's been a while since I've played 7th Sea, had slipped my mind. Bravo. The_Sentin3l: Oddly, Hellcow gave me the idea. There's a post somewhere, either on his LJ or at his main site, that includes a clip of the very first words he'd ever written about Eberron, long before it was Eberron. His little snip was about a halfling gumshoe in Sharn, and it was obvious that he too was leaning heavily on the steps tread by Hammett and his ilk. I just kind of ran with it. As for more... well, we'll see. I consider my writing to be mediocre at best and that piece will probably need a great deal of work before I find it suitable for the troupe of monkeys that I like to call my players, let alone anyone in a more public format. But as I said, we'll see. PJammaGod: I consider anything I post on here to be freely available for others' use, and ask only the courtesy of a nod to my authorship of it if that use is a public one. As far as using it around your own table -the sharing of ideas and advice for the betterment of the game and the community is why we're here, yes? Any advice I give or thoughts I put forth are done for the betterment and use of those who may find them enlightening or thought-provoking; for my own experiences behind the screen and my inelegant articulations of them to be of use to someone else is a great compliment. Now, as I mentioned above, the Sharn-as-film-noir motif is properly credited to Keith, and I believe that there is some element of it present in the ECS and S:CoT, even if it is somewhat too simple to get lost in the magitech, steampunk tendencies of the world. Keith has vouched for James and the 4e Eberron team, and while I am a fan of Wyatt's previous work, I found that reassuring. Whoever owns the licensing for it, Eberron will always be Keith's world, and his vote of confidence in those now holding its reins is a comfort. But I digress.
#28 Dargurd Jan 09, 2009 0:00:42	Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D Having finally seen the movie that "nuke the fridge" comes from i now understand the line - and I thought it was one of the funniest things ive seen in a movie - not sure i can nuke a fridge in eberron though... Oh wait a minute, eldritch device, large lead line sarcophogus i think ive got an idea :D
#29 saint_matthew Jan 10, 2009 0:19:12	Things i have found to increase the Pulp feel of Eberron 1. Memorable Villain: Make the villain more of an early bond-esk bad guy. Make him cackle & wear something memorable. Make sure he has a well formed goal & he can be negoitated with, atleast on some level. Ex-Pat's who can't get over the end of the war work really well. Likewise a villain with a memorable set of pets, speech pattern, mooks, outlook, circumstance or general appearance will stick in the mind of Players. 2. Singular Plot: Make the goal something that can't be replicated. Seeking a magical item that is located in a lost mechanical dungeon, where the item has been placed into safe keeping 100 years earlier by a secret sect of monks, is much more interesting then just entering a dungeon to kill stuff. thin Indiana Jones style traps & devices. Major work for a singular result with no reset. 3. Ambience. With pulp games you either have it or you don't. 4. Destiny: Draconic-Prophecy is your friend, love it nurture it & if all else fails; abuse it. 5. Beautiful but cold-hearted dames. Sexist; yes. Cool; Gods yes. A staple of any good Noir or Pulp story. 6. Add a new power source to the 4E game: MONEY. A level 1 NPC may be richer then god. Crappy combat abilities, but much money sometimes makes for good bad guy. Remember, with great money, comes great ability to cause strife. 7. The unforeseen "Double-Cross." Never overuse this tactic, but sometimes its good for PC's to be double-crossed by NPC's. Be careful when you use it unless you want PC's to start killing your Plot Hooks & misc. NPC's. This works well when a Patron provides a plot hook, gives you a reason why he wants the job done, but doesn't give you all the info; remember the double cross in "league of extraordinary gentlemen." Also, don't forget that villainous minions may betray their masters. 8. Falliable Characters. Every Eberron character should have a character flaw, PC or NPC. also every NPC should have some level of background, even if its just having seen to much during the Last War. Memorable characters especially Major NPC's make the game more interesting & if they have their won goals, it makes it feel more real & hence "More Pulp". 9. Investigation adventures are hard to do under 4E, but totally worth it. 10. Dynamic Vistas & Amazing Locations: you want a location that sparks the imagination, no matter what the DMG says about areas with drops & controllers. Fudge dice results for the sake of adventure. Let your players know you aren't going to kill them just because the rules say so. 11. Make the heroes, HEROES: You would think this would be the case anyway, but sadly no. The heroes should be singular people, in a world struck by termoil. They shouldn't play by the rules, but they should be extraordinay. Steal, plunder & borrow from this list with impunity friends, i give with grace & hope to one day once again see a Eberron game that is more then just D&D in a different setting. ;)
#30 Talae Jan 12, 2009 12:23:17	I feel rather rallied after that post. I think it's time for some serious Pulp action!

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Dargurd

Oct 03, 2008 23:45:42

Hi All,

Ok something ive never quite got figured out is how to put the 'pulp' into Eberron. Can anyone offer any advice please ?

As a help im going to be using North East Karrnath as my new campaign region and the Emerald Claw are the main antagonists - how do i make the have a 'pulp' feel ?

Regards...

skrap-san

Oct 04, 2008 5:05:37

Well I tend to resort to fantastic battles atop moving trains on a hunt for lost artifacts... a bit like Indiana Jones actually. This thread really helped me out a great deal http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=726060 Other than that i have no other suggestions than to watch the list of movies that is mentioned in the campaign setting. At least not on the top of my head.

Amaril

Oct 04, 2008 11:40:05

Imagine Indiana Jones having to go into Germany to retrieve an artifact of significant power while fighting and escaping Nazis throughout the adventure.

Use high action chase scenes, have the adventure lead into some remote locations such as a Dhakanni ruin, a lost dwarven hold or even the Fist of Onatar.

Consider elements such as a traitorous spy, double-crosses, and other acts of betrayal. Perhaps someone assumed to be a trusted friend and ally ends up sabotaging the party's progress, or stealing the artifact from them after retrieving it.

Essentially, watch Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

inkblot

Oct 04, 2008 12:32:37

Also, make all the encounters way over the top and don't be afraid to be cheesy.

skrap-san

Oct 04, 2008 15:21:50

don't be afraid to be cheesy.

I try to be a bit cheesy actually. Always good for morale... And an important note, pay atention to the location of the battles. 20x20ft rooms is never really interesting. Now if this room was having spiked pit traps opening on random now and then. That would be a different story... So basically yeah make it as memorable as possible.

Dargurd

Oct 05, 2008 0:56:42

Thanks for the help and advice guys it is appreciatated.

So far im thinking of using the Emerald Claw as the "nazis" although on a covert scale at first. As they are outlawed I dont see them particularly marching down the street just yet. Although taking on board some of the comments im thinking at least 2 local people who may befried the characters could be members...

As for over the top - well the first adventure which will teach the guys 4ed rules (hopefully) as they start onboard an elemental ship crossing Lake Dark at night when it is attacked by some nameless tentacled beastie - the players will only ever see the dark shape of the main bulk as they contend with the writhing mass off tentacles on the deck and around the ship - is that pulp enough ?

When they arrive in Lakeside im planning on having a scene akin to "Gangs of New York" as the Irish arrive. - treat the non Karrns with distain and hostility and see where that takes them...

Does that sound ok ?

skrap-san

Oct 05, 2008 7:17:36

Sounds like I wish I could play in your group. (so yes its OK).

Amaril

Oct 05, 2008 9:30:54

Ditto! I think that sounds like a lot of fun. One thing you might consider about the Emerald Claw is treating them like neo-Nazis or post-war Nazis who are shunned by their own nation but still fanatical in their own beliefs.

inkblot

Oct 08, 2008 16:04:27

As for over the top - well the first adventure which will teach the guys 4ed rules (hopefully) as they start onboard an elemental ship crossing Lake Dark at night when it is attacked by some nameless tentacled beastie - the players will only ever see the dark shape of the main bulk as they contend with the writhing mass off tentacles on the deck and around the ship - is that pulp enough?

Almost!

The tentacles rock the ship, lifting it halfway out of the water, threatening to capsize it if the players don't hack away the tentacles fast enough. And when they do, SPLOOSH! the ship slams back down into the water.

Halfway through the fight the beast rises out of the water and bites the ship in half! Do this when the beast is bloodied -- and in the round before be sure to describe how the deck of the ship is slick with the its blood. Then it's body remains at least partially out of the water, at least for a round or two, so all the PCs can heroically fend it off.

#10

Dargurd

Oct 08, 2008 23:17:58

Almost!

The tentacles rock the ship, lifting it halfway out of the water, threatening to capsize it if the players don't hack away the tentacles fast enough. And when they do, SPLOOSH! the ship slams back down into the water.

Halfway through the fight the beast rises out of the water and bites the ship in half! Do this when the beast is bloodied -- and in the round before be sure to describe how the deck of the ship is slick with the its blood. Then it's body remains at least partially out of the water, at least for a round or two, so all the PCs can heroically fend it off.

Hehe I like that a lot - might keep the ship still just about sea worthy at the end though as I need that to get them into the campaign proper so to speak.

#11

Ogiwan

Oct 09, 2008 0:23:48

Hah. My last session was pulp as hell, and was nothing more than two skill checks. Both the same one, too, the "urban chase" from the DMG. The first one was a rooftop chase scene, the second a chase up the stairs to the airship docking tower.

.....which, of course, caught on fire in mid-chase, beginning to topple over on the last turn and necessitating everybody to jump the widening gap........

#12

Dargurd

Oct 09, 2008 0:38:47

.....which, of course, caught on fire in mid-chase, beginning to topple over on the last turn and necessitating everybody to jump the widening gap........

Always the sort of the thing to generate lots of shouts of dispair from players as each makes their die rolls...

#13

skrap-san

Oct 11, 2008 11:52:00

Thats what I like about threads like these. It generate so many good ideas. I never got around to using this boss in 3.5th but I most likely will use it in this campaign, and it all goes like this.

At the end of a jungletreck into the Shadow marches the players catch up with the bad guys (cults of dragon bellow/emerald claw what ever you need) Here they will perform a ancient ritual of some sort to awaken a sleeping halfgod of some sort in an old abandoned temple. (i used a awakened huge wiper (size huge) fiendish half dragon).

Then at the top of the temple it starts to rain, and a priest opens the portal to release the sleeping dragon thing. Now the players have to stop it from coming through.

Also i had placed 4 statues that everytime someone died it gave the boss 4hp back. One for each statue (and a visual clue). And at the beginning you have to have the obvious leader gets eaten by called god.

Now that i think about it a rhaja would be cool to use for this.

#14

kawnell

Oct 11, 2008 18:42:12

I brought the "critical miss" to the table.
When running the planned encounter, when a 1 gets rolled, the action heats up more.

That's when things explode for no reason, the enemy gets reinforced, the baby in the stroller comes rolling through, the horses bolt, the three-horns stampede, the town guard comes to investigate, the dam breaks, the sliding wall trap (that takes a minute to complete) gets triggered . . .

I run it for the villians too, cause it's when the good guys can catch their break.

I found I had to cap it to only 1-3 events/encounter to keep things from going too far, but the expressions from the PCs when that 1 gets rolled (even if I'm not going to add to the challenge) is great.

And No, it's not like the old fumble tables which were really frustrating.

Have Fun

#15

Ogiwan

Oct 16, 2008 7:46:04

Oooo, need to do a crusher trap with skeletons occupying the PCs attention.......

#16

grug_the_just

Oct 17, 2008 22:56:25

I think this is the main problem I've been dealing with since 4e. Now don't jump to conclusions, I love 4e.

However, the adventures thus far are lacking that pulp feel. As such I'm putting an Eberron Pulp spin on Thunderspire Labyrinth. I mean, hey, I bought it, might as well breath some life and grit into it.

More on point though, pulp in Eberron, I feel, is the most integral part of the feel of Eberron. Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D

#17

Dargurd

Oct 18, 2008 0:05:42

More on point though, pulp in Eberron, I feel, is the most integral part of the feel of Eberron. Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D

Cheese is good as is a bit of HAM acting sometimes, along with the end of adventure bad guy giving endless monologues about how you should not have crossed him...ahh i soooo love Eberron adventures.

#18

Ogiwan

Oct 19, 2008 16:27:16

Well, I think a pretty valid thing to do would be to imagine your session as a movie. Your PCs are still you're audience, they're just more involved than they would be in a movie.

#19

Gilo

Oct 19, 2008 19:23:15

I try to put some twists and turns in my combat encounters in an attempt to advance the pulp feel. I'll share some recent encounters:

Its early morning and the PCs are sleeping on the second floor of the Inn (after a couple of days of fighting Kobolds in the woods), one of the PC is awakened by someone knocking loudly and rudely on his door - annoyed he opens the door and find himself face to face with a Zombie holding its own slab of tombstone which quickly comes down towards the PC's head ... The rest of the PCs are awaken and the fight quickly moves from the second floor to the main hall (note that the PCs are not wearing much at this point) where they find another Zombie nibbling on a corpse behind the bar ... the fight continues in the street where the PCs notice two of the town's guards helplessly trying to close the town's gates in the face of another wave of Zombies ... the fight is over and the gates are closed (I'm skipping over a small side story here regarding a dragonshard powered siege tower moving along the inner town wall) but its clear that the source of the undead is the nearby military graveyard (where many Karrnathi Last War soldiers are buried) ... the PCs pickup there gear and travel to investigate.

The graveyard encounter was run as in the KotS adventure which I use as the base adventure framework, with two changes (KotS spoiler alert):

1. (I can't take credit for this someone mentioned this idea in his adventure blog) for each round in the encounter a magical circle (with the Blood of Vol symbol) pulse with necrotic energies and the GM rolls a 1d6 (its important to do the roll in front of the players) and adds the result as the amount of Zombie minions spawned from there graves all around the PCs (which starts a scary race against time).

2. The PCs rolled Religion and Arcane skill checks to find out how to stop the circle - the answer was simple: they only need to drop a bit of blood on the circle to counter its effect, the only catch - they needed human blood (and only one of my PCs is human which was nowhere close to circle and surrounded by zombies).

on a side pulp note - both the Eladrin PC and the Warlock used there teleportation abilities to get on the roof of a nearby musaleum (where they rolled acrobatics checks to keep from slipping over the diagonal wet rooftop).

I'll try and add the shadowfell Manifestations ideas, Xoriat spellworm encounter, earthquake tremors and the ghost of the girl that teleported into a wall pulp-horror side-trek when I have more time.

#20

Kensan_Oni

Oct 19, 2008 22:17:51

The other suggestion is listen to old Radio Serials, like Your Truely Johnny Dollar, and Dragnet. They also have a very pulp feel to them, and their pacing probably works better in some ways then Indiana Jones movies.

Also, make sure to get in some Classic Pirate Movies. THey can help get that feel, too.

... and read some Lensman and Doc Savage while you're at it...

#21

PJammaGod

Oct 20, 2008 7:08:58

Remember to have plenty of rain. The more the better ;) . Fighting against insurmountable odds is a good way to go, leave the heroes with a quest where they succeeded, but it wasn't in the way they expected or it didn't turn out 100% good. Bad-taste tendings are very much the pulp-noir way.

Did I mention rain :P ?

#22

m4kitsu

Oct 21, 2008 3:25:26

Rain, yes, and dialogue. How the people of the world talk can make a huge difference to the feel and flavor of a game.

example

I found her at some fleece joint by the pole, chinning a bunch of out-of-town flavor to some bad end over a bottle of giggle juice, looking as good as the day she said goodbye. I was the cheapest mug in the joint by about a lifetime and stuck out like a bindle punk's thumb, and I knew it wouldn't take Kinsey long to pipe me, so I copped a table near the window and nibbled a cup of tal while she finished off the tourists.

I caught her move in the window's reflection, coming at me like a summer storm once she'd scattered the flock, not even trying to pretend she didn't know me.

"You got a lotta nerve showing your face up here," her way of hello. I gave the tal a grin and drained the last of it.

"Good to see you too, Kinsey. Not even gonna ask how I am?"

She grabbed the other chair and spun it, before sitting down to face me over its back, flashing a lot of leg out either side of the glad rags she'd buttoned on.

"I know how you are, Cole: trouble. What do you want?"

"I got comfy with a new dame down by the river, wanted to know if maybe you'd piped any numbers who'd be wise to it. Fancy twist, not just somebody who could pull a karrn act or get shuffled without anybody noticing."

She took a slant, then turned back to me, voice hurried and hushed. "Clam, ya dumb egg! You can't just go pushing buttons and pawing peaches up here, not out in the open. Maybe it works in the creep joints you like, but up here it's as like to get you to go for a dive as anything just on principle."

She sighed, losing steam, and I saw a little of that sapphire sparkle back in her eyes from the old days.

"Look, you said your little dish went for a swim, right?"

I nodded.

"Fine. I'll ask, but you gotta believe I'm on the square if I say I know from nothing, okay?"

"Yeah, that's flat."

"I mean it, Cole. You get your ideas about a body, and I gotta know I'm not ranked with the rest of your stoolies."

She locked my eyes until I broke and looked away. "Kinsey... I'd never..."

"Then prove it. You still grifting at Fitz's place?"

"I... yeah."

"Good. I'll drop a horn your way if I get the rap up here. You need to find me again, buzz me here and keep it dormy," she said, handing me a card with expensive ink and an expensive address on it. "and no games. The high pillows catch you on any funny business and there won't be anything left to turn over to the hammer and saws."

And then she was gone, trotting off through the place like I'd never happened, smiles and waves to the rest of the mugs in the joint, just hammering home how far apart we were. Still, she was good for her word and had me crabbed; if any of her pigeons knew about my dame, I'd get another horse at my door in a day or two.

#23

the_sentin3l

Oct 21, 2008 10:31:41

Snip lyrical genius.

You, my friend, have my utmost respect for your post. Such a brillant description for pulp there has never been.

But yeah, honestly, brilliant stuff. I love your use idea of using slang. Not something I personally would have thought of. So good on you for that. And your intro story was brilliant. Any chance of actually getting any more of that, either through PM or on here?

#24

Ogiwan

Oct 21, 2008 11:15:39

I also agree with M4kitsu's post. Hell, I've run pretty much an entire session with just two skill checks (see farther up on this thread).

Concerning the comeback thing, one of the suggestions I love from 7th Sea is that a player gives the DM the "trigger", be it a spoken one or a physical one, and then the DM tries to work in the trigger to his session so the player can drop it on the party without batting an eyelash.

An example would be as such: The "trigger" would be, "If I was your wife, I would put poison in your coffee!"

The DM works that into a session, and when an NPC says that, the player can immediatly, because he worked it out ahead of time, retort with, "If I was your husband, I'd drink it!"

That has been historically attributed to Churchill, by the by. Still, if you want witty repartee, something like that would probably serve well.

#25

inkblot

Oct 22, 2008 2:11:04

Remember to have plenty of rain. The more the better ;) . Fighting against insurmountable odds is a good way to go, leave the heroes with a quest where they succeeded, but it wasn't in the way they expected or it didn't turn out 100% good. Bad-taste tendings are very much the pulp-noir way.

Bad-taste endings and lots of rain are very much on the Noir side of pulp-noir.

#26

PJammaGod

Oct 22, 2008 2:13:35

M4kitsu you did an S grade (above A+++ grade) job of describing just how pulp noir should sound, feel and taste. To be honest I'm going to ninja what you described on conversation and the use of slang and apply it to my campaign, since the party will be travelling back to Sharn within the next few months (real-time). Some awesome stuff, hopefully it'll get transplanted into the ECS 4e to help people understand just what pulp noir should be!

#27

m4kitsu

Oct 22, 2008 6:39:21

Thank you all for the kind words. I know well my own tendency to the lack of brevity and the proclivity of many here to skip me for it.

Concerning the comeback thing, one of the suggestions I love from 7th Sea is that a player gives the DM the "trigger", be it a spoken one or a physical one, and then the DM tries to work in the trigger to his session so the player can drop it on the party without batting an eyelash.

An example would be as such: The "trigger" would be, "If I was your wife, I would put poison in your coffee!"

The DM works that into a session, and when an NPC says that, the player can immediatly, because he worked it out ahead of time, retort with, "If I was your husband, I'd drink it!"

That has been historically attributed to Churchill, by the by. Still, if you want witty repartee, something like that would probably serve well.

You may be completely not surprised to learn that 7th Sea is probably my favorite RPG ever, and it's probably been a bad influence on my DMing other systems. However, this is excellent advice, and as it's been a while since I've played 7th Sea, had slipped my mind. Bravo.

The_Sentin3l:

Oddly, Hellcow gave me the idea. There's a post somewhere, either on his LJ or at his main site, that includes a clip of the very first words he'd ever written about Eberron, long before it was Eberron. His little snip was about a halfling gumshoe in Sharn, and it was obvious that he too was leaning heavily on the steps tread by Hammett and his ilk. I just kind of ran with it.

As for more... well, we'll see. I consider my writing to be mediocre at best and that piece will probably need a great deal of work before I find it suitable for the troupe of monkeys that I like to call my players, let alone anyone in a more public format. But as I said, we'll see.

PJammaGod:

I consider anything I post on here to be freely available for others' use, and ask only the courtesy of a nod to my authorship of it if that use is a public one. As far as using it around your own table -the sharing of ideas and advice for the betterment of the game and the community is why we're here, yes? Any advice I give or thoughts I put forth are done for the betterment and use of those who may find them enlightening or thought-provoking; for my own experiences behind the screen and my inelegant articulations of them to be of use to someone else is a great compliment.

Now, as I mentioned above, the Sharn-as-film-noir motif is properly credited to Keith, and I believe that there is some element of it present in the ECS and S:CoT, even if it is somewhat too simple to get lost in the magitech, steampunk tendencies of the world. Keith has vouched for James and the 4e Eberron team, and while I am a fan of Wyatt's previous work, I found that reassuring. Whoever owns the licensing for it, Eberron will always be Keith's world, and his vote of confidence in those now holding its reins is a comfort.

But I digress.

#28

Dargurd

Jan 09, 2009 0:00:42

Cheesy is good, no need to "nuke the fridge" though. Well, I can't say that I don't like that idea...:D

Having finally seen the movie that "nuke the fridge" comes from i now understand the line - and I thought it was one of the funniest things ive seen in a movie - not sure i can nuke a fridge in eberron though... Oh wait a minute, eldritch device, large lead line sarcophogus i think ive got an idea :D

#29

saint_matthew

Jan 10, 2009 0:19:12

Things i have found to increase the Pulp feel of Eberron

1. Memorable Villain: Make the villain more of an early bond-esk bad guy. Make him cackle & wear something memorable. Make sure he has a well formed goal & he can be negoitated with, atleast on some level. Ex-Pat's who can't get over the end of the war work really well. Likewise a villain with a memorable set of pets, speech pattern, mooks, outlook, circumstance or general appearance will stick in the mind of Players.

2. Singular Plot: Make the goal something that can't be replicated. Seeking a magical item that is located in a lost mechanical dungeon, where the item has been placed into safe keeping 100 years earlier by a secret sect of monks, is much more interesting then just entering a dungeon to kill stuff. thin Indiana Jones style traps & devices. Major work for a singular result with no reset.

3. Ambience. With pulp games you either have it or you don't.

4. Destiny: Draconic-Prophecy is your friend, love it nurture it & if all else fails; abuse it.

5. Beautiful but cold-hearted dames. Sexist; yes. Cool; Gods yes. A staple of any good Noir or Pulp story.

6. Add a new power source to the 4E game: MONEY. A level 1 NPC may be richer then god. Crappy combat abilities, but much money sometimes makes for good bad guy. Remember, with great money, comes great ability to cause strife.

7. The unforeseen "Double-Cross." Never overuse this tactic, but sometimes its good for PC's to be double-crossed by NPC's. Be careful when you use it unless you want PC's to start killing your Plot Hooks & misc. NPC's. This works well when a Patron provides a plot hook, gives you a reason why he wants the job done, but doesn't give you all the info; remember the double cross in "league of extraordinary gentlemen." Also, don't forget that villainous minions may betray their masters.

8. Falliable Characters. Every Eberron character should have a character flaw, PC or NPC. also every NPC should have some level of background, even if its just having seen to much during the Last War. Memorable characters especially Major NPC's make the game more interesting & if they have their won goals, it makes it feel more real & hence "More Pulp".

9. Investigation adventures are hard to do under 4E, but totally worth it.

10. Dynamic Vistas & Amazing Locations: you want a location that sparks the imagination, no matter what the DMG says about areas with drops & controllers. Fudge dice results for the sake of adventure. Let your players know you aren't going to kill them just because the rules say so.

11. Make the heroes, HEROES: You would think this would be the case anyway, but sadly no. The heroes should be singular people, in a world struck by termoil. They shouldn't play by the rules, but they should be extraordinay.

Steal, plunder & borrow from this list with impunity friends, i give with grace & hope to one day once again see a Eberron game that is more then just D&D in a different setting. ;)

#30

Talae

Jan 12, 2009 12:23:17

I feel rather rallied after that post. I think it's time for some serious Pulp action!