Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ogiwan Aug 14, 2012 13:48:18	Greetings, all. As part of my campaign's plot, I have my players sneaking into Thronehold in order to rifle through the archives. As a part of the sneaking in phase, I have my players encountering a Stone Golem whose job is to allow agents of the King to pass, and eliminate all other intruders. I want to try a puzzle at my table, but for the life of me, I can't come up with a good puzzle. So, what puzzles do you guys like? Any that could work in Eberron?
#2 Madfox11 Aug 14, 2012 14:41:03	Since it is a puzzle designed to let a specific group of people pass, even those that do not know the password, it must build on something that every member of that group knows. So what would every agent of the King know and which others either don't know or would interpret incorrectly? Maybe even make the answer the exact opposite of what people would expect... Non agents would likely provide the obvious answer. Agents would realize that anything so obvious would require the opposite answer... I know, not much help, but I am not a big fan of these kind of puzzles* (they rarely make sense) and am not good at designing them.
#3 tallric_kruush Aug 14, 2012 15:52:11	Having recently replayed the Uncharted series, I couldn't help but think of some of the puzzles scattered throughout those games. Often, a riddle or phrase provided the clue to some minor, yet crucial, physical component close at hand. You could have some clue or whatnot referring to the "enlightened rule" of the Wynarn dynasty, with a physical component such as aligning braiziers, for example. That's a rough one, but of the type suitable for disarming a trap or opening a secret wing of the archives. As to the Golem, I'd say they need to say the right things if it's already "awake". If not, environmental components could still work. Maybe they need to salute or acknowledge a specific, but unobtrusive, bust of Galifar, or something. These are off the cuff, and I have a killer headache, but you get the idea, I hope. I love these type of encounters in our campaigns. I guess it makes sense that I'd also be such a fan of Uncharted. This forum is full of good threads. I'm hopeful this could become another, as the ideas start rolling in.
#4 tallric_kruush Aug 14, 2012 15:58:25	I thought of another possibility, and editing is tough on the iPhone, so post #2: Maybe it's not what the characters say or do that gets them past the golem, but what they're wearing. Maybe the royal guard wore cloaks, clasps or something seemingly mundane that actually served as a key to safe access? Perhaps some of the items are in storage somewhere else in Thronehold, just waiting to be filched by the needy PCs?
#5 belisarius19 Aug 14, 2012 17:31:24	Well, when I think puzzle - as opposed to riddle or password - I tend to think of something physical. So perhaps the door to the archives will only open when the PCs arrange items in the room in a certain way, and the golem kills all who fail. It could be related to the geography of Old Galifar. For example, something representing each of the Five Nations, and they have to be arranged in the room in a way that corresponds to a map of the old Kingdom. Or perhaps runes on the floor have to be arranged to form the motto of whatever agency of the King that was allowed in. I like puzzles that are solvable by players, not just characters, so I would tend to make it something they have encountered in the campaign, and skill checks would earn clues of some sort, as if they remembered a piece of it.
#6 MartianAlien Aug 14, 2012 23:22:46	I did one puzzle involving a cipher wheel where the wheel was rotated one position after every N characters. They were going to find both plain and ciphered text later, which would serve as an example of how to decipher it, but one of my players actually wrote a program to decipher it through brute force of the combinations and solved it before then. But that doesn't help you... So, to build on the ideas above – I like the idea of a badge of office/membership being one component - something they can filch - but not having that be all that they need. I'd think that a physical token would be one way of restricting access, since a password could always be leaked. If you're using a golem to query them, having the correct response be an action rather than vocalizing an answer could be appropriate (so the golem doesn't have to figure out regional accents ). Like the idea of the motto of the agency, with the golem intoning, "What do you stand for?" and they need to go stand in a particular place (on, under, in front of) as a response. Arranging tokens of some kind, or lighting specific candles or braziers, or something along those lines would work too. If it's Thronehold, I would be inclined to have it be something of Old Galifar, something that would predate the Last War. I don't know if it's been detailed enough in any material, but elements or principles of the Code of Galifar might be appropriate.
#7 Ogiwan Aug 16, 2012 7:36:30	I had toyed with the idea of doing something like having the golem assume each party member was a representative of each of the Five Nations, but that was kinda meh. I like the idea of symbolizing the nations, but I don't think I want them rolling history checks or whatever to figure out what symbolizes what. Hmm. What about the golem asking about the three virtues of agents of the king? Something like secrecy, loyalty, and something else? Maybe a short riddle, but I don't know how to work that in.... I've never had to come up with a puzzle, so by definition, I'm bad at coming up with them.
#8 Orkbard Aug 17, 2012 7:29:56	Love to do riddle challenges.  Though I often save those for more fey like encounters, or even dragons. One game session became stump the copper dragon because the players were having fun with it. They needed his help, he asked riddles, and it just escalated, quickly. I recommend looking at the Uncharted games for inspiration, as mentioned above. Personally, flat out stole puzzles from those. The mundane clothes thing seems like a really good idea actually. I know lots of players that would completely over look anything mundane at 5th level and higher.
#9 Ogiwan Aug 20, 2012 8:04:42	This is the riddle I threw together: As an Agent of the King, thee has three virtues. The first, valued by the man who has many knives at his back; The second, valued by the man who has many open ears listening in; The third, valued by the man who seeks to do much with little. State your virtues, Agent, or be marked as a traitor and crushed. Show Loyalty, Secrecy, Efficiency
#10 Orkbard Aug 20, 2012 19:30:16	This is the riddle I threw together: As an Agent of the King, thee has three virtues. The first, valued by the man who has many knives at his back; The second, valued by the man who has many open ears listening in; The third, valued by the man who seeks to do much with little. State your virtues, Agent, or be marked as a traitor and crushed. Show Loyalty, Secrecy, Efficiency
#11 Madfox11 Aug 22, 2012 6:54:52	Why offer a clue to enemies on how to avoid the traps and open a door? To me it feels a bit too much like a puzzle for the puzzle's sake. Why not make the answer the exact opposite as a trap to enemies while true agents are supposed to be aware of it? Then have the PCs learn this earlier on?
#12 Ogiwan Aug 22, 2012 9:47:05	It is kinda a puzzle for the puzzle's sake, but what do you mean, Madfox?
#13 Madfox11 Aug 23, 2012 3:34:15	When you add security to a safehouse, you are unlikely to add a safety switch that every intelligent enemy can use. It defeats the purpose of the defenses and you might as well save yourself some money. You want it to be rather specific that only your own agents are likely to solve just in case all people knowing of the switch die. Hence my suggestion to making the answer the exact opposite or make it much more specific. I will admit though that riddle locks are one of my pet peeves, they rarely make sense when you think about it unless the purpose of the riddle lock is to keep stupid creatures out and allow all intelligent creatures entrance ;)
#14 Ogiwan Aug 23, 2012 14:33:10	You're right, Madfox. So, what are the opposites of the three virtues I gave? Man, my players will be mad. I'll have to figure out some way to hint that opposite might be the way to go. Just not too strong. Hmm.
#15 MartianAlien Aug 24, 2012 1:40:46	So, what are the opposites of the three virtues I gave? Kind of tough. How about... Show Distrust, Gossip, and Waste.
#16 Ogiwan Aug 24, 2012 9:21:20	Have the entity questioning them have the appropriate emblem (or aspects of the emblem) be wrong, like being the mirror image of the real one (like, a head looking the opposite direction or something similarly small/subtle). Ooooo, good one.
#17 MartianAlien Aug 24, 2012 18:01:28	Have the entity questioning them have the appropriate emblem (or aspects of the emblem) be wrong, like being the mirror image of the real one (like, a head looking the opposite direction or something similarly small/subtle). Ooooo, good one. To be even more evilcrafty, have whatever clue that's the indication of "answer wrong" be able to be changed – either by a caretaker or automagically – which would indicate which of the 'virtues' questions should be answered incorrectly. That way it's also not as simple as 'all correct' or 'all false'. Maybe there's a mosaic on the floor showing the emblem/heraldry, but individual tiles within the mosaic are magically changed when the room is empty in-between questionings. Or the emblem on the golem can change (sort of like a slot machine?) so that where an error is indicates how to answer the individual questions.
#18 Ogiwan Aug 26, 2012 5:23:55	Yeah, I figured it out. The golem will have the crest of the Galifaran secret service/intelligence apparatus on it, with one part altered. Thanks everybody! I'll tell you all how it goes!
#19 Ogiwan Aug 28, 2012 8:24:49	To get into Thronehold, the PCs moved through a gate where the secret button to press was the sigil of the royal secret service (a crown on the points of three daggers). They then moved through a passageway where they discovered a de-activated pressure plate and wall-crusher trap (daggers wedged in to prevent the pressure plate from depressing). Past that, they encountered the golem with the altered sigil of the royal secret service (a crown on the points of two daggers, and the pommel of the third). One of my players asked specific questions about the sigil on the golem's chest, and got the piece of information about the reversed dagger. Another player correctly identified that the altered sigil meant to reverse the answer to the third line. However, the party/person answering ignored that advice, and answered it straight. Cue panic when the Golem moved to crush them. However, they realized that, by pulling out the daggers, they could use the de-activated pressure plate to destroy the golem. Which they did, to great enjoyment. So, all in all, it was a successful scene. Now, my players brought up two other possibilities. The first that, instead of answering the riddle to the 15-foot-tall clay golem with a pile of mouldering bones at its feet, the correct "answer" was to walk up to the golem and press the third (reversed) dagger. I thought that was a rather clever take, so I report it to you guys. The second possibility is that, rather than a crusher trap, the trap would change the gravity orientation. So, in a 100 foot hallway where the trap is 20 feet in, if they triggered the trap, the 80 feet of remaining hallway would turn into an 80-foot pit. The daggers wedged in the stones were to act as anchor points to rappel down. So, discuss!