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Quick Question:

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rake
Sep 25, 2008 8:44:04 Hello all. Question:

So that I know wether or not hunting for mechanical ideas around here is going to be worthwhile to me or not: is any significant percentage of this board's population still running 3.5 Eberron?
#2
Alas
Sep 25, 2008 9:25:11 I'm running my Eberron campaign in 3.5 at the moment, but even after we go 4th, I'll still have all the old books. I imagine a significant portion of the fanbase is still capable of discussing Eberron 3.5 mechanics-- whether or not they do depends on how interested they are in the question. For example, I could talk for days about Incarnum in Eberron... though it'd be a pretty lonely conversation. ;)
#3
rake
Sep 25, 2008 9:32:34
I'm running my Eberron campaign in 3.5 at the moment, but even after we go 4th, I'll still have all the old books. I imagine a significant portion of the fanbase is still capable of discussing Eberron 3.5 mechanics-- whether or not they do depends on how interested they are in the question. For example, I could talk for days about Incarnum in Eberron... though it'd be a pretty lonely conversation. ;)

Incarnum in Eberron, eh? I'll bite.

(I have similar ideas-nobody-thinks-is-cool-but-me about vestiges in Eberron.)
#4
Alas
Sep 25, 2008 9:49:57
Incarnum in Eberron, eh? I'll bite.

Do not tempt the flood! That said, I've always thought the Valenar faith's approach to "embodying the ancestor" jived really well with incarnum's soul-stuff theme. Certain aspects of the Silver Flame philosophy of the afterlife work well with it, too (plus, just picture a CoSF "paladin" with the Incarnate Avatar meld in place).

(I have similar ideas-nobody-thinks-is-cool-but-me about vestiges in Eberron.)

It'd be neat to see some rajah or quori-based vestiges. I liked that class, but I didn't take as much time to grok it as I did the shadowcaster (and I kind of skipped the truenamer). It seems like the sort of thing some radical Zilargo elemental binders could get into. Heck, the gnome who founded the Library of Korranberg was looking to ascend-- he could easily have ended up a vestige (basic power-- free subscription to the Chronicle!).
#5
rake
Sep 25, 2008 14:26:44 Yeah, I skipped the truenamer too.

I don't know about the Flame but the Valenar thing did occur to me, as did the Darguun ancestor-worship. I just have a hard time coming to terms with exactly what it is that incarnum does. Your Valenar is invoking his hero-ancestor's spirit so as to channel his revered soul into... a pair of shoes? It's just bizzare.

I've allowed meldshaping PCs before, and with a litte reflavoring (no shoes, but a faded or vivid nimbus around the feet, depending on wether or not the meld is bound) it seems to play just fine. Made for a pretty solid couple of melee characters.

As for vestiges, my thought was that maybe the gods (as in, the Host and the Six) themselves are vestiges. Think about it... they don't interact with the Prime Material, and they can't be physically found anywhere in the cosmology. You could explore Fernia for a lifetime and never run into Onatar. Maybe they did exist more "traditionally" at one time, but exist now only amidst the voids between worlds and the places-that-should-not-be. Maybe one of Eberron's trademark Deep Dark Secrets is that the binders have it right, the closest bond one could have with the cods is achieved via pactbinding.
#6
skrap-san
Sep 25, 2008 15:01:42 To respond to the OP, it would seem that many here at this forum including me is old Eberronians. Especially since the ECL isn't converted into 4th ed yet. So there should be no problem discussing 3.5 rules. I for one would welcome the challenge even though I'm using 4th ed now. And my guess is that many of us still would welcome the challenge after the official conversion to 4th just for variation... And don't forget all the new cool stuff that needs to be "reverse" engineered from 4th too 3.5 in the coming years.
#7
Alas
Sep 25, 2008 15:21:55
Your Valenar is invoking his hero-ancestor's spirit so as to channel his revered soul into... a pair of shoes?

Conquistadors. They run a little tight.

Yeah, melds like that and the obsession with the color blue are part of why incarnum achieved popularity with only a weird subset of players (in which I count myself). Oddly enough, it was the mechanics of incarnum that really drew me-- major class abilities (melds) reconfigurable on a daily basis, with action-by-action refocusing (essentia investment).

Vestiges of the deities themselves would be pretty peculiar-- if only for the theological implications. The vestige for the Traveller alone would be a trip to see. Vol is already (somewhat) accounted for as a physical presence, but her parents would make for interesting forces looking for a reconnection with reality, as would the immediate ancestor of the Sora hags.
#8
inkblot
Sep 25, 2008 18:01:07 Vestiges aren't ghosts or ascended beings. A vestige is produced when a being to important/powerful to not exist is erased from existence, or when somebody slips between the cracks of reality. It is a horrific fate, incomprehensible to normal people.

This is why vestiges never turn down a pact. Vestiges are desperate for reality. Even the small taste of it they get by binding with someone for a day is better than un-existence.

Each vestige's story is a tragedy, or has some great irony, or something like that. If anybody ever sought to become a vestige on purpose, that person was a fool. A foolish fool.

Of course, you could use the rules for Pact Magic for things besides vestiges. It works especially well for voodoo. It works even better for good old fashioned demon summoning. Most of the vestiges and their seals are taken from the demons listed in The Goetia: The Lesser Key Of Solomon (you can see for yourself here).

EDIT: I'm a big fan of pact magic. I played a binder in an Eberron game (our last game before switching to 4e). We left the vestiges' stories the same, for the most part. They are just legends after all. Even if a vestige corroborates the story, you can't trust them, since they're all utterly insane. We also didn't bother adapting vestiges which were too high level for me to bind.
#9
fabius_maximus
Sep 26, 2008 7:05:41 InkBlot: You should check out the 3p book Secrets of Pact Magic, written by Darion Nardi. It expands on the Binder's mechanics and offers a huge load of new material.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rake Sep 25, 2008 8:44:04	Hello all. Question: So that I know wether or not hunting for mechanical ideas around here is going to be worthwhile to me or not: is any significant percentage of this board's population still running 3.5 Eberron?
#2 Alas Sep 25, 2008 9:25:11	I'm running my Eberron campaign in 3.5 at the moment, but even after we go 4th, I'll still have all the old books. I imagine a significant portion of the fanbase is still capable of discussing Eberron 3.5 mechanics-- whether or not they do depends on how interested they are in the question. For example, I could talk for days about Incarnum in Eberron... though it'd be a pretty lonely conversation. ;)
#3 rake Sep 25, 2008 9:32:34	I'm running my Eberron campaign in 3.5 at the moment, but even after we go 4th, I'll still have all the old books. I imagine a significant portion of the fanbase is still capable of discussing Eberron 3.5 mechanics-- whether or not they do depends on how interested they are in the question. For example, I could talk for days about Incarnum in Eberron... though it'd be a pretty lonely conversation. ;) Incarnum in Eberron, eh? I'll bite. (I have similar ideas-nobody-thinks-is-cool-but-me about vestiges in Eberron.)
#4 Alas Sep 25, 2008 9:49:57	Incarnum in Eberron, eh? I'll bite. Do not tempt the flood! That said, I've always thought the Valenar faith's approach to "embodying the ancestor" jived really well with incarnum's soul-stuff theme. Certain aspects of the Silver Flame philosophy of the afterlife work well with it, too (plus, just picture a CoSF "paladin" with the Incarnate Avatar meld in place). (I have similar ideas-nobody-thinks-is-cool-but-me about vestiges in Eberron.) It'd be neat to see some rajah or quori-based vestiges. I liked that class, but I didn't take as much time to grok it as I did the shadowcaster (and I kind of skipped the truenamer). It seems like the sort of thing some radical Zilargo elemental binders could get into. Heck, the gnome who founded the Library of Korranberg was looking to ascend-- he could easily have ended up a vestige (basic power-- free subscription to the Chronicle!).
#5 rake Sep 25, 2008 14:26:44	Yeah, I skipped the truenamer too. I don't know about the Flame but the Valenar thing did occur to me, as did the Darguun ancestor-worship. I just have a hard time coming to terms with exactly what it is that incarnum does. Your Valenar is invoking his hero-ancestor's spirit so as to channel his revered soul into... a pair of shoes? It's just bizzare. I've allowed meldshaping PCs before, and with a litte reflavoring (no shoes, but a faded or vivid nimbus around the feet, depending on wether or not the meld is bound) it seems to play just fine. Made for a pretty solid couple of melee characters. As for vestiges, my thought was that maybe the gods (as in, the Host and the Six) themselves are vestiges. Think about it... they don't interact with the Prime Material, and they can't be physically found anywhere in the cosmology. You could explore Fernia for a lifetime and never run into Onatar. Maybe they did exist more "traditionally" at one time, but exist now only amidst the voids between worlds and the places-that-should-not-be. Maybe one of Eberron's trademark Deep Dark Secrets is that the binders have it right, the closest bond one could have with the cods is achieved via pactbinding.
#6 skrap-san Sep 25, 2008 15:01:42	To respond to the OP, it would seem that many here at this forum including me is old Eberronians. Especially since the ECL isn't converted into 4th ed yet. So there should be no problem discussing 3.5 rules. I for one would welcome the challenge even though I'm using 4th ed now. And my guess is that many of us still would welcome the challenge after the official conversion to 4th just for variation... And don't forget all the new cool stuff that needs to be "reverse" engineered from 4th too 3.5 in the coming years.
#7 Alas Sep 25, 2008 15:21:55	Your Valenar is invoking his hero-ancestor's spirit so as to channel his revered soul into... a pair of shoes? Conquistadors. They run a little tight. Yeah, melds like that and the obsession with the color blue are part of why incarnum achieved popularity with only a weird subset of players (in which I count myself). Oddly enough, it was the mechanics of incarnum that really drew me-- major class abilities (melds) reconfigurable on a daily basis, with action-by-action refocusing (essentia investment). Vestiges of the deities themselves would be pretty peculiar-- if only for the theological implications. The vestige for the Traveller alone would be a trip to see. Vol is already (somewhat) accounted for as a physical presence, but her parents would make for interesting forces looking for a reconnection with reality, as would the immediate ancestor of the Sora hags.
#8 inkblot Sep 25, 2008 18:01:07	Vestiges aren't ghosts or ascended beings. A vestige is produced when a being to important/powerful to not exist is erased from existence, or when somebody slips between the cracks of reality. It is a horrific fate, incomprehensible to normal people. This is why vestiges never turn down a pact. Vestiges are desperate for reality. Even the small taste of it they get by binding with someone for a day is better than un-existence. Each vestige's story is a tragedy, or has some great irony, or something like that. If anybody ever sought to become a vestige on purpose, that person was a fool. A foolish fool. Of course, you could use the rules for Pact Magic for things besides vestiges. It works especially well for voodoo. It works even better for good old fashioned demon summoning. Most of the vestiges and their seals are taken from the demons listed in The Goetia: The Lesser Key Of Solomon (you can see for yourself here). EDIT: I'm a big fan of pact magic. I played a binder in an Eberron game (our last game before switching to 4e). We left the vestiges' stories the same, for the most part. They are just legends after all. Even if a vestige corroborates the story, you can't trust them, since they're all utterly insane. We also didn't bother adapting vestiges which were too high level for me to bind.
#9 fabius_maximus Sep 26, 2008 7:05:41	InkBlot: You should check out the 3p book Secrets of Pact Magic, written by Darion Nardi. It expands on the Binder's mechanics and offers a huge load of new material.