I don't see that the current batch are on their way to repeating it, but the possibility exists...
first, from what little we know, the Giants appear to have used the "Moonbreaker" which changed the Age in Dal Quor. The Quori of that Age did not use the weapon on themselves.
Moreover, we have no idea what cause the quori-giant conflict in the first place. It may not have been instigated by the Quori at all--the Giants might have started the war. I can imagine the haughty Titans of Xen'drik seeking to transcend their worldly existence and moving to a realm of pure thought, and harnessing the power thereof... what better place than Dal Quor?
Second, the Quori of that Age might not have been concerned about the death of their Dreaming Heart the way that modern Quori are so concerned about the Dreaming Dark. As such, it is possible that their intervention in Eberron was not designed to avert anything, but that unforeseen consequences overtook them and caused a changing of the Age.
well, i dunno about that.
first, from what little we know, the Giants appear to have used the "Moonbreaker" which changed the Age in Dal Quor. The Quori of that Age did not use the weapon on themselves.
Moreover, we have no idea what cause the quori-giant conflict in the first place. It may not have been instigated by the Quori at all--the Giants might have started the war. I can imagine the haughty Titans of Xen'drik seeking to transcend their worldly existence and moving to a realm of pure thought, and harnessing the power thereof... what better place than Dal Quor?
Second, the Quori of that Age might not have been concerned about the death of their Dreaming Heart the way that modern Quori are so concerned about the Dreaming Dark. As such, it is possible that their intervention in Eberron was not designed to avert anything, but that unforeseen consequences overtook them and caused a changing of the Age.
I didn't mean that the quori were themselves the ones who pulled the trigger, but they were involved. I'm well aware the giants were the ones who were behind the Moonbreaker.
This isn't intended to be canon, either, just a theoretical discussion of whether or not it's plausible. Are the quori somehow seeing fate coming for them and creating the very disasters they seek to avoid? It's an interesting notion for me, since prophecy is very much an active theme in Eberron.
All we know is that modern Quori believe that the Dreaming Dark is headed for death, and that they will die with it. They've known about this for thousands of years.
But the idea that their own actions cause the very thing that they are trying to prevent? That's kind of what the Kalashtar themselves are doing, right? I mean... they are Quori who are trying to kill the Dreaming Dark and change the Age.
It's established in canon that the Inspired's monoliths and Riedran Empire are bringing Dal Quor back into orbit... might this be the trigger that kills the Dreaming Dark?
It's certainly possible that the actions of the Quori to prevent the Turning of the Age always end up Turning the Age...
All we know is that modern Quori believe that the Dreaming Dark is headed for death, and that they will die with it. They've known about this for thousands of years.
...It's certainly possible that the actions of the Quori to prevent the Turning of the Age always end up Turning the Age...
Certainly. And the same could be true of the previous Quori. What always happens is that at some point the Quori realize that Dal Quor hasn't always been the way that they know it to be - and that when it changes, all Quori and all evidence of the previous age change with it.
What exactly causes the change? They don't know. Everything that both the Dreaming Dark and Kalashtar are doing is based purely on conjecture. We've put forth theories. We've said what the hanbalani monoliths are designed to do and appear to be doing. But it's up to you to decide if those theories are correct, or if the monoliths might serve another purpose.
But yes, there is certainly the possibility that in trying to stop the change, the DD will end up creating it.
All we know is that modern Quori believe that the Dreaming Dark is headed for death, and that they will die with it. They've known about this for thousands of years.
...It's certainly possible that the actions of the Quori to prevent the Turning of the Age always end up Turning the Age...
Certainly. And the same could be true of the previous Quori. What always happens is that at some point the Quori realize that Dal Quor hasn't always been the way that they know it to be - and that when it changes, all Quori and all evidence of the previous age change with it.
What exactly causes the change? They don't know. Everything that both the Dreaming Dark and Kalashtar are doing is based purely on conjecture. We've put forth theories. We've said what the hanbalani monoliths are designed to do and appear to be doing. But it's up to you to decide if those theories are correct, or if the monoliths might serve another purpose.
But yes, there is certainly the possibility that in trying to stop the change, the DD will end up creating it.
Well, to be honest, I'm not that interested in Sarlona (personally, I prefer Khorvaire or Xen'drik), but this caught my eye.
Of course, as far as prophecy, hubris, and unintended consequences go, I kind of suspect that the entire setting is one massive Xanatos pileup waiting to happen. Knowing PCs, I very much expect that they'll be involved somehow if it does.
All we know is that modern Quori believe that the Dreaming Dark is headed for death, and that they will die with it. They've known about this for thousands of years.
...It's certainly possible that the actions of the Quori to prevent the Turning of the Age always end up Turning the Age...
Certainly. And the same could be true of the previous Quori. What always happens is that at some point the Quori realize that Dal Quor hasn't always been the way that they know it to be - and that when it changes, all Quori and all evidence of the previous age change with it.
What exactly causes the change? They don't know. Everything that both the Dreaming Dark and Kalashtar are doing is based purely on conjecture. We've put forth theories. We've said what the hanbalani monoliths are designed to do and appear to be doing. But it's up to you to decide if those theories are correct, or if the monoliths might serve another purpose.
But yes, there is certainly the possibility that in trying to stop the change, the DD will end up creating it.
Well, to be honest, I'm not that interested in Sarlona (personally, I prefer Khorvaire or Xen'drik), but this caught my eye.
Of course, as far as prophecy, hubris, and unintended consequences go, I kind of suspect that the entire setting is one massive Xanatos pileup waiting to happen. Knowing PCs, I very much expect that they'll be involved somehow if it does.
ah, but Sarlona is not a part of the Prophecy (which is just a bunch of Conclave Propaganda if you ask me...)
And I would imagine that the changing of the Age in Dal Quor is far too large to be a mere Xanatos Gambit. After all, the "natural" end of the Age would be, it seems to me, the re-alignment of Dal Quor with the other planes.
just some random thoughts.
also, from the ask a loremaster thread at ddo.com. Your mileage may vary, since some of this is informed by stuff in DDO, but if nothing else it can be yet another way of looking at things.
"Modern Quori are the nightmare spawn of what they call il-Lashtavar, or the Darkness that Dreams. Sometimes called the Heart of the Darkness or the Dreaming Dark, il-Lashtavar is the literal and metaphorical darkness at the heart of Dal Quor. It is il-Lashtavar that guides the current machinations of the Quori and shapes much of the plane of Dreams.
At some point, sixty seven Quori, led by one named Taratai, rebelled against il-Lashtavar. Seeking to escape it's control, they fled Dal Quor and ended up bonding themselves to monks in Adar. As these monks reproduced, a strange thing occured. Rather than remaining bound to their original host, the Quori found their consciousnesses being divided up by all those who carried the blood of the first monks. These offspring, over generations, would become the Kalashtar.
To understand the next part, it's important to understand how Outsiders interact with death in Eberron. Every plane as a given number of outsiders (or powerful outsiders) who reside there, and when one is destroyed, a new one is spawned fresh from the energies of the plane. Thus, all the Quori would have had to do in order to quash the rebellion would be to destroy the rebels, and allow il-Lashtavar to spawn new Quori to replace them.
Now, the spirit of each rebel quori is spread out over dozens or even hundreds of individual Kalashtar. The Quori remain undaunted, however, and continue to seek the extermination of the Kalashtar lines, which will in turn strengthen their own numbers. In fact, one of the greatest Holidays of the Kalashtar is what's called the Void of Taratai. These are days of rememberance, where the Kalashtar mourn the loss of the line of Taratai, for the Quori finally succeeded in destroying all Kalashtar who bore portions of Taratai's spirit.
The Quori are generally incapable of traveling physically to Eberron, due to the remote nature of Dal Quor (thanks to the Giants) and so are forced to act through mortal agents. In Riedra, the nation the Quori have managed to take control of, they raise a certain class of humans to be Empty Vessels, hosts for their possession. A Quori-inhabited Empty Vessel is known as one of the Inspired, and to be selected to become one of the Inspired is a great honor among the people of Riedra.
One might imagine that the Kalashtar's struggle for survival is a battle they cannot help but lose, given that any time they destroy one of the Inspired, the Quori can simply inhabit a new Empty Vessel, and even worse, if they do manage to destroy one of the Quori, il-Lashtavar simply spawns a new one. However, the Kalashtar don't seek the destruction of their enemy, but rather the Turning of the Age, a feat they hope to accomplish through peaceful meditation and a philosophy they call il-Yannah, the Path of Light."
hope some of that helps in some way. :P
Gotta say, I never heard of the "Ask a Loremaster" thing from DDO, but they got that 100% completely right. There's nothing in there that was "tweaked" for the mmo, that's all pure Eberron fluff.
Yes, I'm glad to see that they know the lore. It's a good summary.
forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=122272
Turbine is good at working with large IP's. They got quite a bit of experience with LOTRO.
Eberron is also a relatively young setting, compared to something like FR or Dragonlance. Still alot of fleshing out to go.
Turbine is good at working with large IP's.
I have a lot of problems with how they chose to realise the Eberron IP in the actual gameworld, regardless of whether or not they have someone on staff who knows their daelkyr from their quori.
(The Jorasco halflings look suspiciously tall... tall like humans.... Which boggles my mind because I have an education in videogame design and I know exactly how easy it would be for them to just scale down human models to halfling height.)
Regardless of whether or not Dragonmarked houses employ wrong-wrace individuals in guilds or whatnot, these NPCs are the only faces players will put on the houses, and you'd think they'd at least get a typical member to represent them.
Don't Dragonmarked houses employ races outside of the race members that carry the actual marks? That could explain some of the races present. Or did I misunderstand that part of house functions?
They do employ them, in guilds and such, and maybe liscence their businesses with the Houses's seal of approval. But my point is that if you go to Whatsherface d'Ghallanda for quests, or have to rescue Someone d'Jorasco from a dungeon, these people are the faces of their houses for the player. They should be typical members of the house. (Nevermind the fact that someone with the d' prefix should always be a blood relation to the house, and therefore of he right species.)
Er, apologies for the threadjacking. More on topic:
It seems to me that Dal Quor is a reflection about how bad things are in the setting. There are very few bastions of goodness in the world, and something like umpteen billion threats. Dealkyr lurk in the darkness, rakshasa direct the course of nations and Houses alike for fun and nefarious purposes, there's a lich queen looking to gain godlike power over death, etc. etc.
Personally, I see the Turn of the Age as something the PCs will cause by their heroics. By the time they fufill their epic destinies, they could have gone a long way with dispelling many of the worlds darkest corners. The Dealkyr invasion might have been the deepest dark of the Age, when horror and madness itself manifested in reality. Many of the Quori look like horrible monstrocities from the Far Realm, even, and I don't think it's coincidence. But the saying goes "It's always darkest before dawn", and that darkness has long since lain dormant. The PCs are the agents that will inspire the common people to stand up and face tomorrow with a brighter hope for the future. And not just from fear of monsters or demons, but also believing that Khoravire will have peace again, and that your neighbors can be trusted.
The empire of Reidra might be idylic for its residents, but it's not as if the Inspired have erased fear in their subjects. Indeed, they make a point of vilifying many forces and factions around the world, painting even the benevolent Sovereigns as evil demons. There's still plenty left to fear in their mind-controlled paradise. I think their goals are to fix Dal Quor's orbit so they can gain greater influence, but also to spread their fearmongering to the rest of the world, cementing the dream of the age as one of paranoia and fear of the unknown.
Was the moon "broken"? or just propelled away from eberron?
If it was just propelled away, and is slowly making its way back, how would this effect the world physically? and for that matter metaphorically? I mean, as a Plane draws closer, it effects the world in a stronger way. jokingly one could say that as it draws closer people become sleepier : )
If Dal Quor is a manifestation of the time, then despair reigns. I would say that to counter despair one needs hope, hope in anything, and it seems that the Quori hope to stagnate the world, so as stated earlier, by keeping alive this hope the Quori could bring the turning themselves.
I personally think that the Quori-Giant war was the Eladrin's fault. If their Spire hadn't phased into that part of the world then the Giants would have never learned how to plane shift. : D
My lastest Quori pondering is that if Warforged don't "dream" and the giants made them to fight quori, then would a warforged not be subject to a lot Dal Quor's traits if they were to find a way onto the Plane? I know Mr. Baker had written about this senario, but I never got to read about it.