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Religion and Eladrin

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bwcmd1
Jun 15, 2008 18:13:12 Getting ready to start a 4E Eberron campaign, and one player is interested in being an eladrin. Given that KB has said in his LJ that the eladrin come from Thelanis, and she's interested in playing an eladrin cleric, any thoughts on diety? Obviously a druid might be a good choice instead if that was available, but as it is the choices are limited to the Host (which seems like a human construction, or an amalgamation of religions from across two continents), the BoV, and the Flame (since KB was quite clear eladrin were not Aereni/Valenar, I'm ruling out those faiths). Any suggestions on which religion might fit for someone from another plane? The best I can come up with right now is one of the specific gods of the Host (oddly, it seems as though the Devourer might be the best choice for someone from Thelanis, or maybe Balinor).
#2
the_ubbergeek
Jun 15, 2008 18:20:41 Hum... Maybe they will make up some faith...
#3
That_Blasted_Somoflange
Jun 15, 2008 19:49:22 It really depends on how long said character has been on Khorvaire. If they've been there for years, they could certainly become devoted to one of the established faiths. In fact, it could be an interesting character to have an Eladrin from Thelanis, come to Khorvaire, get indoctrinated in one of the faiths, and decide to spread it to Thelanis.
#4
mystrich
Jun 15, 2008 22:14:20 The Host says all Deities are truly of the Host or the Dark Six. That's why they were the most popular and why the halflings and goblins don't have their own deities. Even if Thelanis had different religion, the Host would have explained that they just use different names for the same deities. And also, for spells like planar binding etc to work, there would have to be at least some hints of the "human" religions on the other planes. Whether spread by planar travels, or because it was brought to the humans (while the planar beings still can't see their gods on the planes like other settings, why would one who worships their own religion come to Eberron and assist someone of a completely different deity).
Another way is that that progneitor worms are still the most powerful beings to have appeared in the cosmology. A cleric who worships Eberron would be similar to a druid, as Eberron is the creator of all animals and plants.
#5
octaviusiii
Jun 16, 2008 0:03:25 I'd say an Eladrin might worship the gods of nature which, according to vassals of the Sovereign Host, would be Balinor, his sister Arawai, and the Devourer. They might go by different names, of course, or they might all be considered one god by the Eladrin (or perhaps the God), but a vassal would point to that and say "Oh, so you worship the gods of nature! Me too! Here, though, they go by different names..."

The Progenitors, according to legend, bound the planes to the Prime long, long ago, before Eberron became the center of the Prime. Worship of the Dragons might also work.

Lastly, the Planes might be the product of other dragons, or part of a broader Creation of the entire cosmology by a single god, like Forgotten Realms' Ao.
#6
malicant
Jun 16, 2008 11:13:13
[...]she's interested in playing an eladrin cleric, any thoughts on diety?[...]

Easiest way would be to say the character became a cleric of one of the regular deities after coming to the Material Plane.

If that is not an option, simply say that Corellon is the default Eladrin deity and everyone else on Eberron simply shoehorns him into an aspect of an appropriate deity from the Host, similar to Vulkoor being shoehorned into an aspect of the Mockery.

Maybe the Wizards will drop some infos in Dragon, but I would not hold my breath. When the Eberron Campaign Guide finally comes out you will most likely have to apply some changes, either to the character or to the setting, depending on what you are more comfortable with.
#7
the_ubbergeek
Jun 16, 2008 11:19:18 Corellon could be interesting if rethought... ancient hero, divinised? their philo-spirituality? A 'live god'?

I heard of a 'lost god', in theories, also. Hum....
#8
herogoeth
Jun 17, 2008 14:32:53 I like the idea of an Eladrin Cleric worshipping Siberys. Through the viel between thelanis and khorvaire, the Eladrin could have often seen the golden ring glimmering in the sky. The character could have sought out legends of the progenitor wyrms, and began to hear what he/she believed to be the whispers of the ancient Dragon Above. The belief in the Music of Creation, Prophecy, and Draconic Foretellings might make for a really interesting Eladrin Cleric.
#9
ellorin
Jun 23, 2008 7:14:24 Personally I see no reason to believe that the Eladrin should have a racial tendency to a religion. We are already aware that a great number of extraplanars worship more or less the same as the inhabitants of Eberron(angels worhipping the Flame, demons the Six and so on-see the Religion in Eberron Dragonshard), so why should there be a different approach for the denizens of Thelanis? Thus, I doubt that the eladrin shuld be treated differently than any other race? Of course there will be some tendencies, in the same way that Onatar is the Sovereign that the Dwarves usually venerate above all, but nothing more than that.

P.S. Furthermore, I always pictured the fey folk as mostly agnostics or atheists, but that's another story.
#10
PJammaGod
Jun 23, 2008 9:04:45 One common theme I've found amidst the Aerenei and Valenar elves is veneration of the past, those ancestors who have passed before them. So you have the option of the Eldarin perhaps worshiping their ancestors as they had existed in the past. Perhaps some "ascended" as powerful Fey lords and now help their lesser fey cousins/progeny in existing. It's an fun twist on the Uncle Nick-Nack religion the Aerenei have.

Also it's interesting the deity the Drow worship. Volkoor apparently was this powerful deity that found them and saved them in the days just after the fall of Giant Civilisation when the elves had rebelled and most booked it for northern climates. Near as I can tell the Sovereigns haven't attempted to "brand" Volkoor into one of the Sovereign Host (or Dark Six), so it exists as a god apart (perhaps even the missing/lost 16th deity of the Goblin Pantheon). So maybe the Eladrin "found" their own deity, some divine whizbang that helped them survive all the upheavells that elven society had been experiencing at the time. For an added twist, the deity could be Volkoor in different clothing, a more magical/arcane god of the fey folk.

Hope the ramblings help ;) .
#11
snarky_monkey
Jun 23, 2008 10:05:16 I've always thought the most interesting thing about faith in Eberron was the fact that you don't need an established deity to have powers based on belief. As long is your faith in what you believe is strong, the effect is the same as if you worshiped The Dark Six, The Silver Flame, or the Soverign Host. Maybe there is an ideal the eladrin believes in, heck you could even go to the extent of saying the character believes in it's own race's superiority over all the others of Khorvaire so deeply, that he/she can channel the collective will of his people. In my current campaign, though an attempt to convince a tribe to stop attacking caravans, they gained the admiration of a kobold worker. This worker was so impressed by the leader of the party that they started to percieve them as a greater being of sorts. This pure faith has been enough to enable him to start his own religion, namely the worship of a new member, in his eyes, of the Sovereign Host, "The Big Fancy Pants". ;)
#12
julescarv
Jun 25, 2008 2:10:31 What about worshipping the Traveller? Somehow, that seems fitting. Eladrin might regard their Fey Step as a "Gift of the Traveller" or the like.
#13
mhacdebhandia
Jun 26, 2008 1:00:00
Also it's interesting the deity the Drow worship. Volkoor apparently was this powerful deity that found them and saved them in the days just after the fall of Giant Civilisation when the elves had rebelled and most booked it for northern climates. Near as I can tell the Sovereigns haven't attempted to "brand" Volkoor into one of the Sovereign Host (or Dark Six), so it exists as a god apart

I'm pretty sure that it has been established in the books that Vulkoor is identified with the Mockery, actually.
#14
PJammaGod
Jun 26, 2008 6:49:31 (quick note, GRRRR to wizards.com msg boards. I wrote up a lengthy post and then loose it all when previewing. This place is currently as stable as Jack Sparrow in a room full of rum)

Depends MHac on what you choose to believe :P (gotta love that about Eberron religion). Pg 23/24 of Faiths of Eberron talks about how most Vassals go about converting and integrating other belief systems into their own. Generally they cast it in the light of "your God isn't any different from my God. In fact they're the same God/Gods, just seen differently and/or viewed in a different light". It's a brilliant conversion trick and explains the overall success of the Sovereign Host. The sidebar on Pg 24 even talks about how some Vassals view EVERY deity/theological system as another reflection of the sovereigns.

Pg 72 of Secrets of Xen'drik has the quote you're looking for "Vulkoor, believed by some scholars to be an aspect of the Mockery". It could be the case that Vulkoor is yet another reflection, but then again it could just some scholars blowing smoke (you know how shady those Morgrave University types are).
#15
octaviusiii
Jun 26, 2008 10:18:17 I actually played a cleric of the Sovereign Host and everyone's faith was part of mine. Even the 'athiest' wizard/warlock was actually a follower of Aureon, he just didn't know it. Ahh, as part of my preparation I memorized all the gods, their flavor and their portfolios. So much fun, especially as a theology student m'self :D

So, anyway, good luck with figuring out a religion!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bwcmd1 Jun 15, 2008 18:13:12	Getting ready to start a 4E Eberron campaign, and one player is interested in being an eladrin. Given that KB has said in his LJ that the eladrin come from Thelanis, and she's interested in playing an eladrin cleric, any thoughts on diety? Obviously a druid might be a good choice instead if that was available, but as it is the choices are limited to the Host (which seems like a human construction, or an amalgamation of religions from across two continents), the BoV, and the Flame (since KB was quite clear eladrin were not Aereni/Valenar, I'm ruling out those faiths). Any suggestions on which religion might fit for someone from another plane? The best I can come up with right now is one of the specific gods of the Host (oddly, it seems as though the Devourer might be the best choice for someone from Thelanis, or maybe Balinor).
#2 the_ubbergeek Jun 15, 2008 18:20:41	Hum... Maybe they will make up some faith...
#3 That_Blasted_Somoflange Jun 15, 2008 19:49:22	It really depends on how long said character has been on Khorvaire. If they've been there for years, they could certainly become devoted to one of the established faiths. In fact, it could be an interesting character to have an Eladrin from Thelanis, come to Khorvaire, get indoctrinated in one of the faiths, and decide to spread it to Thelanis.
#4 mystrich Jun 15, 2008 22:14:20	The Host says all Deities are truly of the Host or the Dark Six. That's why they were the most popular and why the halflings and goblins don't have their own deities. Even if Thelanis had different religion, the Host would have explained that they just use different names for the same deities. And also, for spells like planar binding etc to work, there would have to be at least some hints of the "human" religions on the other planes. Whether spread by planar travels, or because it was brought to the humans (while the planar beings still can't see their gods on the planes like other settings, why would one who worships their own religion come to Eberron and assist someone of a completely different deity). Another way is that that progneitor worms are still the most powerful beings to have appeared in the cosmology. A cleric who worships Eberron would be similar to a druid, as Eberron is the creator of all animals and plants.
#5 octaviusiii Jun 16, 2008 0:03:25	I'd say an Eladrin might worship the gods of nature which, according to vassals of the Sovereign Host, would be Balinor, his sister Arawai, and the Devourer. They might go by different names, of course, or they might all be considered one god by the Eladrin (or perhaps the God), but a vassal would point to that and say "Oh, so you worship the gods of nature! Me too! Here, though, they go by different names..." The Progenitors, according to legend, bound the planes to the Prime long, long ago, before Eberron became the center of the Prime. Worship of the Dragons might also work. Lastly, the Planes might be the product of other dragons, or part of a broader Creation of the entire cosmology by a single god, like Forgotten Realms' Ao.
#6 malicant Jun 16, 2008 11:13:13	[...]she's interested in playing an eladrin cleric, any thoughts on diety?[...] Easiest way would be to say the character became a cleric of one of the regular deities after coming to the Material Plane. If that is not an option, simply say that Corellon is the default Eladrin deity and everyone else on Eberron simply shoehorns him into an aspect of an appropriate deity from the Host, similar to Vulkoor being shoehorned into an aspect of the Mockery. Maybe the Wizards will drop some infos in Dragon, but I would not hold my breath. When the Eberron Campaign Guide finally comes out you will most likely have to apply some changes, either to the character or to the setting, depending on what you are more comfortable with.
#7 the_ubbergeek Jun 16, 2008 11:19:18	Corellon could be interesting if rethought... ancient hero, divinised? their philo-spirituality? A 'live god'? I heard of a 'lost god', in theories, also. Hum....
#8 herogoeth Jun 17, 2008 14:32:53	I like the idea of an Eladrin Cleric worshipping Siberys. Through the viel between thelanis and khorvaire, the Eladrin could have often seen the golden ring glimmering in the sky. The character could have sought out legends of the progenitor wyrms, and began to hear what he/she believed to be the whispers of the ancient Dragon Above. The belief in the Music of Creation, Prophecy, and Draconic Foretellings might make for a really interesting Eladrin Cleric.
#9 ellorin Jun 23, 2008 7:14:24	Personally I see no reason to believe that the Eladrin should have a racial tendency to a religion. We are already aware that a great number of extraplanars worship more or less the same as the inhabitants of Eberron(angels worhipping the Flame, demons the Six and so on-see the Religion in Eberron Dragonshard), so why should there be a different approach for the denizens of Thelanis? Thus, I doubt that the eladrin shuld be treated differently than any other race? Of course there will be some tendencies, in the same way that Onatar is the Sovereign that the Dwarves usually venerate above all, but nothing more than that. P.S. Furthermore, I always pictured the fey folk as mostly agnostics or atheists, but that's another story.
#10 PJammaGod Jun 23, 2008 9:04:45	One common theme I've found amidst the Aerenei and Valenar elves is veneration of the past, those ancestors who have passed before them. So you have the option of the Eldarin perhaps worshiping their ancestors as they had existed in the past. Perhaps some "ascended" as powerful Fey lords and now help their lesser fey cousins/progeny in existing. It's an fun twist on the Uncle Nick-Nack religion the Aerenei have. Also it's interesting the deity the Drow worship. Volkoor apparently was this powerful deity that found them and saved them in the days just after the fall of Giant Civilisation when the elves had rebelled and most booked it for northern climates. Near as I can tell the Sovereigns haven't attempted to "brand" Volkoor into one of the Sovereign Host (or Dark Six), so it exists as a god apart (perhaps even the missing/lost 16th deity of the Goblin Pantheon). So maybe the Eladrin "found" their own deity, some divine whizbang that helped them survive all the upheavells that elven society had been experiencing at the time. For an added twist, the deity could be Volkoor in different clothing, a more magical/arcane god of the fey folk. Hope the ramblings help ;) .
#11 snarky_monkey Jun 23, 2008 10:05:16	I've always thought the most interesting thing about faith in Eberron was the fact that you don't need an established deity to have powers based on belief. As long is your faith in what you believe is strong, the effect is the same as if you worshiped The Dark Six, The Silver Flame, or the Soverign Host. Maybe there is an ideal the eladrin believes in, heck you could even go to the extent of saying the character believes in it's own race's superiority over all the others of Khorvaire so deeply, that he/she can channel the collective will of his people. In my current campaign, though an attempt to convince a tribe to stop attacking caravans, they gained the admiration of a kobold worker. This worker was so impressed by the leader of the party that they started to percieve them as a greater being of sorts. This pure faith has been enough to enable him to start his own religion, namely the worship of a new member, in his eyes, of the Sovereign Host, "The Big Fancy Pants". ;)
#12 julescarv Jun 25, 2008 2:10:31	What about worshipping the Traveller? Somehow, that seems fitting. Eladrin might regard their Fey Step as a "Gift of the Traveller" or the like.
#13 mhacdebhandia Jun 26, 2008 1:00:00	Also it's interesting the deity the Drow worship. Volkoor apparently was this powerful deity that found them and saved them in the days just after the fall of Giant Civilisation when the elves had rebelled and most booked it for northern climates. Near as I can tell the Sovereigns haven't attempted to "brand" Volkoor into one of the Sovereign Host (or Dark Six), so it exists as a god apart I'm pretty sure that it has been established in the books that Vulkoor is identified with the Mockery, actually.
#14 PJammaGod Jun 26, 2008 6:49:31	(quick note, GRRRR to wizards.com msg boards. I wrote up a lengthy post and then loose it all when previewing. This place is currently as stable as Jack Sparrow in a room full of rum) Depends MHac on what you choose to believe :P (gotta love that about Eberron religion). Pg 23/24 of Faiths of Eberron talks about how most Vassals go about converting and integrating other belief systems into their own. Generally they cast it in the light of "your God isn't any different from my God. In fact they're the same God/Gods, just seen differently and/or viewed in a different light". It's a brilliant conversion trick and explains the overall success of the Sovereign Host. The sidebar on Pg 24 even talks about how some Vassals view EVERY deity/theological system as another reflection of the sovereigns. Pg 72 of Secrets of Xen'drik has the quote you're looking for "Vulkoor, believed by some scholars to be an aspect of the Mockery". It could be the case that Vulkoor is yet another reflection, but then again it could just some scholars blowing smoke (you know how shady those Morgrave University types are).
#15 octaviusiii Jun 26, 2008 10:18:17	I actually played a cleric of the Sovereign Host and everyone's faith was part of mine. Even the 'athiest' wizard/warlock was actually a follower of Aureon, he just didn't know it. Ahh, as part of my preparation I memorized all the gods, their flavor and their portfolios. So much fun, especially as a theology student m'self :D So, anyway, good luck with figuring out a religion!