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Retain essance contsruct?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Chrome-Gnome
Sep 11, 2010 15:09:31 So, Artificers can retain essance from magic items. Annd constructs are made in a simular fashion, could you suck the xp-marrow out of a construct? out of a warfordged?
Is there somesort of homebrew thing you would have?
Yes, it would be super-duper overpowered.. but from a in game-world perspective might it happen?
#2
Alex_
Sep 11, 2010 22:14:46
So, Artificers can retain essance from magic items. Annd constructs are made in a simular fashion, could you suck the xp-marrow out of a construct? out of a warfordged?
Is there somesort of homebrew thing you would have?
Yes, it would be super-duper overpowered.. but from a in game-world perspective might it happen?

I don't think the process used to make many magical items is much like the process used to make constructs. The process that makes Warforge in particular, is unlike the process of making most any other construct.

However, if i were to somehow come up with such a rule, I'd think that it could only be used on a "slain" construct and that the essence gained would be as if the ability were used on a magic item of the same level.
#3
Chrome-Gnome
Sep 12, 2010 13:58:28 Interesting, because in our group, the warfordged fighter died in our first combat(He dipped into wizard so he could use mage armor
#4
m4kitsu
Sep 15, 2010 4:18:17 By the rules, no, Retain Essence doesn't work on a Warforged, living or dead, for the same reason you can't salvage usable adamantine or mithril from one. Not only is it a horrible imbalance, but it's also the Warforged equivalent of cannibalism.

The techniques and magics used to create magic items and constructs are different from one another (game-wise represented by different creation rules and different feats needed), and the process used to create Warforged (which has no game mechanics) is different still, and explicitly based on a technology that Khorvairan artificers don't fully understand (considering they stole it from the Giants, who might've stolen it from the Quori).

If you want a fluff explanation, it's this: the magics used in creating a shiny sword or suit of armor are imbued into the item itself as power source and transfer directly through the item into the environment, and an artificer can use that radiant transfer to draw out the energy and compress it into residuum or craft reserve (depending on which edition you're in). The magics used in creating a construct are those of animus and control which dissolve if the physical form to which they are bound is destroyed. A "living" construct animus is able to resist these effects in the same way a living creature can, and a "dead" construct's animus has dispersed, meaning there's nothing to convert to residuum/craft reserve in the first place.

...and frankly, it should stay that way.
#5
Madfox11
Sep 15, 2010 4:52:54
By the rules, no, Retain Essence doesn't work on a Warforged, living or dead, for the same reason you can't salvage usable adamantine or mithril from one. Not only is it a horrible imbalance, but it's also the Warforged equivalent of cannibalism.

While I agree with the fluff arguments, I don't necessarily agree with this one. Ultimately it does not matter were the gold is comming from that the PCs earn as long as the amount equals the numbers given in the DMG. If you want the PCs to earn gold from harvesting monsters (whether warforged or magical beast), just make sure you remove the amount of gold they earn with it from the gold earned from other channels.

As for cannibalism, some would think so. Others would think no different of it as humans currently do for donor organs, or the Karnns think of animating the dead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Chrome-Gnome Sep 11, 2010 15:09:31	So, Artificers can retain essance from magic items. Annd constructs are made in a simular fashion, could you suck the xp-marrow out of a construct? out of a warfordged? Is there somesort of homebrew thing you would have? Yes, it would be super-duper overpowered.. but from a in game-world perspective might it happen?
#2 Alex_ Sep 11, 2010 22:14:46	So, Artificers can retain essance from magic items. Annd constructs are made in a simular fashion, could you suck the xp-marrow out of a construct? out of a warfordged? Is there somesort of homebrew thing you would have? Yes, it would be super-duper overpowered.. but from a in game-world perspective might it happen? I don't think the process used to make many magical items is much like the process used to make constructs. The process that makes Warforge in particular, is unlike the process of making most any other construct. However, if i were to somehow come up with such a rule, I'd think that it could only be used on a "slain" construct and that the essence gained would be as if the ability were used on a magic item of the same level.
#3 Chrome-Gnome Sep 12, 2010 13:58:28	Interesting, because in our group, the warfordged fighter died in our first combat(He dipped into wizard so he could use mage armor
#4 m4kitsu Sep 15, 2010 4:18:17	By the rules, no, Retain Essence doesn't work on a Warforged, living or dead, for the same reason you can't salvage usable adamantine or mithril from one. Not only is it a horrible imbalance, but it's also the Warforged equivalent of cannibalism. The techniques and magics used to create magic items and constructs are different from one another (game-wise represented by different creation rules and different feats needed), and the process used to create Warforged (which has no game mechanics) is different still, and explicitly based on a technology that Khorvairan artificers don't fully understand (considering they stole it from the Giants, who might've stolen it from the Quori). If you want a fluff explanation, it's this: the magics used in creating a shiny sword or suit of armor are imbued into the item itself as power source and transfer directly through the item into the environment, and an artificer can use that radiant transfer to draw out the energy and compress it into residuum or craft reserve (depending on which edition you're in). The magics used in creating a construct are those of animus and control which dissolve if the physical form to which they are bound is destroyed. A "living" construct animus is able to resist these effects in the same way a living creature can, and a "dead" construct's animus has dispersed, meaning there's nothing to convert to residuum/craft reserve in the first place. ...and frankly, it should stay that way.
#5 Madfox11 Sep 15, 2010 4:52:54	By the rules, no, Retain Essence doesn't work on a Warforged, living or dead, for the same reason you can't salvage usable adamantine or mithril from one. Not only is it a horrible imbalance, but it's also the Warforged equivalent of cannibalism. While I agree with the fluff arguments, I don't necessarily agree with this one. Ultimately it does not matter were the gold is comming from that the PCs earn as long as the amount equals the numbers given in the DMG. If you want the PCs to earn gold from harvesting monsters (whether warforged or magical beast), just make sure you remove the amount of gold they earn with it from the gold earned from other channels. As for cannibalism, some would think so. Others would think no different of it as humans currently do for donor organs, or the Karnns think of animating the dead.