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Revealing Changelings

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
koesherbacon
Sep 16, 2010 19:12:17 I know that you have to make a successful Insight check vs a Changeling's Bluff check whenever you want to see through their shapeshifting abilities, but I'm wondering about a few things. Hopefully some of you can help me out

Are there any rituals, powers, items or whatnot that can automatically see through their disguise? Say Trusight for instance?

If a Changeling is knocked unconscious, do they revert to their Changeling form? Or do they stay disguised?

Ditto for death? If a Changeling is killed, do they continue to look like their disguise or do they revert back to their natural Changeling self?

Is there any ritual, power, item, etc, that can force a Changeling to reveal their true identity?

Thank you!!
#2
weenog42
Sep 17, 2010 18:07:34 1. Not that I'm aware of - it's a physical alteration and not an illusion, so you can't really "see through it." Some magic items or utility powers may give bonuses to Insight checks, which would help you detect the deception.

2. No. The only written stipulation on duration is "The new form lasts until you change form again."

3. Same as above.

4. Not that I'm aware of. You might be able to convince them to do so with some charm effects, or bonuses to Diplomacy or the like.
#3
superdeadsmurf
Sep 18, 2010 9:24:06 Doppelgangers/Changelings do revert to their greyness when they perish. Often that is only way to find out that they were an imposter, knocking them out does not work.

I remember in 3.5 there were many ways to figure out they were changelings. True Seeing for example. There are likely a couple wizard utility spells in the high levels, or at least rituals that let you see through illusions and polymorph effects.

I just looked up how true seeing works in 4E for the first time, and it only deals with invisibility I guess. Too bad.
It seems by RAW that the remove affliction ritual could in theory force a changeling back to natural form if you have them captured.
#4
ReasonForTreason
Sep 18, 2010 19:16:43 As one of my changeling players is currently attempting to sneak her way into House Phiarlan in disguise of Lady Ayamis Elorrenthi d'Phiarlan (a dragonmark heir who perished before the mourning), I'm trying to figure out ways for the elves to blow her cover. Here's what I came up with:

Divination: Might work. If your players want to de-face a changeling in diguise, they could use "Consult Mythic Sages", "Consult Oracle", "Discern Lies" or somesuch.
In my case, they will use "Discern Lies" on her to find out her name, place of birth, but she's been raised for this job so her name, birthplace and pretty much everything they will come up with, can be answered in truth by my player.

To counter other kinds of magical tracing, I came up with a number of precautions she has to counter. To fake elven blood, she'll undergo a nasty Blood of Vol Ritual to mix her blood with that of an elf.

"Eyes of Alarm (detect non-elves)" might be a cheap and easy way to detect a changeling, too. My lil changeling will swallow an active magic focus to mask her aura, to counter that.

"History Revealed" could also tell you interesting facts about someone. If your players come up with a creative way to use rituals you could allow it! They are the stepchild of 4E anyways... :-(

If the impersonated humanoid is marked, it's pretty easy to figure it out, of course. Just ask her to perform a Dragonmark ritual or unleash the powers!

Unbeknowst to my player she will develop a true Mark of Shadows during the process :-)

Of course you can always come up with a 4E Version of that potion that reverts any being to it's natural form. Just because it's not available to players in the RAW, you don't have to deny them the option! Fashion it into a small adventure - there you go. You made them work for it and everyone had fun :-)
#5
koesherbacon
Sep 19, 2010 15:46:19 I wonder if Dominating a Changeling will allow the person doing the Dominating to break the Changeling's disguise. That is, if you say breaking the disguise is a basic attack
#6
salla
Sep 19, 2010 15:48:25
I wonder if Dominating a Changeling will allow the person doing the Dominating to break the Changeling's disguise. That is, if you say breaking the disguise is a basic attack

Well, IIRC, when you dominate someone you can make them use at-will powers, and Change Shape is an at-will power, so it seems like it would work.
#7
Madfox11
Sep 20, 2010 4:44:40 The easiest method would be to cut the changeling's hair, it would revert back to its natural state, although to be honest, that does seem to be a rather big weakness. In 4E there are also weapons that can force a shapechanger into its true form, and while cutting a random stranger might not be done under normal circumstances, it might very well be part of a regular investigation when a prominent member, presumed dead, shows up. There are simply too many ways she can be somebody or something else...

One thing to remember is that changelings cannot simulate the powers of a dragonmark. Keeping up the disguise of such a prominent dragonmarked heir would be virtually impossible, especially since many minor magical items operate on the presence of a dragonmark. For example, there are signet rings that only work for dragonmarked heirs, and which are actively used to bypass seals.

Personally, I would be very leery of taking over the role of any prominent members. There is simply too big a chance of discovery. The best bet of a changeling to remain unnoticed, is to avoid drawing attention to it.
#8
hanzo187
Sep 20, 2010 13:40:17 There are some role-playing methods of discovering a changeling.

- They are known for dabbling in luxury, so if you notice an ally going for a more expensive item or inn when the circumstances force them to be more frugal, that's something to be aware of.
- If a changeling is imitating another race, you might want to quiz them on some of the more obscure details of the race's culture. If they hesitate or have it wrong, that could be a tip-off.
- There's the matter of skills, as well. Certain races have certain skills. Valaes Tairn are experts on horses, Darguul hobgoblins are rife with traditions, and so on.

It's a matter of trying to force a potential changeling's hand. They can't know everything. It's a matter of noticing a slip.
#9
ChrisTheS
Sep 20, 2010 15:48:40 Also note that NPCs attempting to reveal a PC changeling have access to a wide variety of tools that PCs don't, such as narrative necessity and GM fiat

PCs trying to track down an NPC changeling have to do things the challenging way, but then they get XP for it...
#10
PJammaGod
Sep 21, 2010 6:36:55 A very easy way for a Dragonmarked House to determine con-artist from the real thing is a Signet ring. It only reacts to someone with a True Dragonmark. A Changeling can imitate the Dragonmark on their skin, but there is no true power behind it. If the Siberys shard in the ring doesn't react... we have a phoney!

I'm also quite certain that the Dragonmarked Houses would also employ Medani Inquisitives to keep tabs on high-level functions. And even the best Changeling is going to have trouble sneaking past the watchful eyes of a Medani .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 koesherbacon Sep 16, 2010 19:12:17	I know that you have to make a successful Insight check vs a Changeling's Bluff check whenever you want to see through their shapeshifting abilities, but I'm wondering about a few things. Hopefully some of you can help me out Are there any rituals, powers, items or whatnot that can automatically see through their disguise? Say Trusight for instance? If a Changeling is knocked unconscious, do they revert to their Changeling form? Or do they stay disguised? Ditto for death? If a Changeling is killed, do they continue to look like their disguise or do they revert back to their natural Changeling self? Is there any ritual, power, item, etc, that can force a Changeling to reveal their true identity? Thank you!!
#2 weenog42 Sep 17, 2010 18:07:34	1. Not that I'm aware of - it's a physical alteration and not an illusion, so you can't really "see through it." Some magic items or utility powers may give bonuses to Insight checks, which would help you detect the deception. 2. No. The only written stipulation on duration is "The new form lasts until you change form again." 3. Same as above. 4. Not that I'm aware of. You might be able to convince them to do so with some charm effects, or bonuses to Diplomacy or the like.
#3 superdeadsmurf Sep 18, 2010 9:24:06	Doppelgangers/Changelings do revert to their greyness when they perish. Often that is only way to find out that they were an imposter, knocking them out does not work. I remember in 3.5 there were many ways to figure out they were changelings. True Seeing for example. There are likely a couple wizard utility spells in the high levels, or at least rituals that let you see through illusions and polymorph effects. I just looked up how true seeing works in 4E for the first time, and it only deals with invisibility I guess. Too bad. It seems by RAW that the remove affliction ritual could in theory force a changeling back to natural form if you have them captured.
#4 ReasonForTreason Sep 18, 2010 19:16:43	As one of my changeling players is currently attempting to sneak her way into House Phiarlan in disguise of Lady Ayamis Elorrenthi d'Phiarlan (a dragonmark heir who perished before the mourning), I'm trying to figure out ways for the elves to blow her cover. Here's what I came up with: Divination: Might work. If your players want to de-face a changeling in diguise, they could use "Consult Mythic Sages", "Consult Oracle", "Discern Lies" or somesuch. In my case, they will use "Discern Lies" on her to find out her name, place of birth, but she's been raised for this job so her name, birthplace and pretty much everything they will come up with, can be answered in truth by my player. To counter other kinds of magical tracing, I came up with a number of precautions she has to counter. To fake elven blood, she'll undergo a nasty Blood of Vol Ritual to mix her blood with that of an elf. "Eyes of Alarm (detect non-elves)" might be a cheap and easy way to detect a changeling, too. My lil changeling will swallow an active magic focus to mask her aura, to counter that. "History Revealed" could also tell you interesting facts about someone. If your players come up with a creative way to use rituals you could allow it! They are the stepchild of 4E anyways... :-( If the impersonated humanoid is marked, it's pretty easy to figure it out, of course. Just ask her to perform a Dragonmark ritual or unleash the powers! Unbeknowst to my player she will develop a true Mark of Shadows during the process :-) Of course you can always come up with a 4E Version of that potion that reverts any being to it's natural form. Just because it's not available to players in the RAW, you don't have to deny them the option! Fashion it into a small adventure - there you go. You made them work for it and everyone had fun :-)
#5 koesherbacon Sep 19, 2010 15:46:19	I wonder if Dominating a Changeling will allow the person doing the Dominating to break the Changeling's disguise. That is, if you say breaking the disguise is a basic attack
#6 salla Sep 19, 2010 15:48:25	I wonder if Dominating a Changeling will allow the person doing the Dominating to break the Changeling's disguise. That is, if you say breaking the disguise is a basic attack Well, IIRC, when you dominate someone you can make them use at-will powers, and Change Shape is an at-will power, so it seems like it would work.
#7 Madfox11 Sep 20, 2010 4:44:40	The easiest method would be to cut the changeling's hair, it would revert back to its natural state, although to be honest, that does seem to be a rather big weakness. In 4E there are also weapons that can force a shapechanger into its true form, and while cutting a random stranger might not be done under normal circumstances, it might very well be part of a regular investigation when a prominent member, presumed dead, shows up. There are simply too many ways she can be somebody or something else... One thing to remember is that changelings cannot simulate the powers of a dragonmark. Keeping up the disguise of such a prominent dragonmarked heir would be virtually impossible, especially since many minor magical items operate on the presence of a dragonmark. For example, there are signet rings that only work for dragonmarked heirs, and which are actively used to bypass seals. Personally, I would be very leery of taking over the role of any prominent members. There is simply too big a chance of discovery. The best bet of a changeling to remain unnoticed, is to avoid drawing attention to it.
#8 hanzo187 Sep 20, 2010 13:40:17	There are some role-playing methods of discovering a changeling. - They are known for dabbling in luxury, so if you notice an ally going for a more expensive item or inn when the circumstances force them to be more frugal, that's something to be aware of. - If a changeling is imitating another race, you might want to quiz them on some of the more obscure details of the race's culture. If they hesitate or have it wrong, that could be a tip-off. - There's the matter of skills, as well. Certain races have certain skills. Valaes Tairn are experts on horses, Darguul hobgoblins are rife with traditions, and so on. It's a matter of trying to force a potential changeling's hand. They can't know everything. It's a matter of noticing a slip.
#9 ChrisTheS Sep 20, 2010 15:48:40	Also note that NPCs attempting to reveal a PC changeling have access to a wide variety of tools that PCs don't, such as narrative necessity and GM fiat PCs trying to track down an NPC changeling have to do things the challenging way, but then they get XP for it...
#10 PJammaGod Sep 21, 2010 6:36:55	A very easy way for a Dragonmarked House to determine con-artist from the real thing is a Signet ring. It only reacts to someone with a True Dragonmark. A Changeling can imitate the Dragonmark on their skin, but there is no true power behind it. If the Siberys shard in the ring doesn't react... we have a phoney! I'm also quite certain that the Dragonmarked Houses would also employ Medani Inquisitives to keep tabs on high-level functions. And even the best Changeling is going to have trouble sneaking past the watchful eyes of a Medani .