| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ScrinoverlordSep 24, 2008 13:12:42 | Psionics ftw. I bet 3/4 of the forum will go with Khorvaire, but w/e. I'm planning on a Riedran vs. Khorvaire war, with the Riedrans moving into each Khorvarian capital via teleportation and killing off most leadership. Once that's done, they move across the countryside and sweep aside any resistance. But I dunno---anyone have any wagers? |
| #2orion_polarisSep 24, 2008 13:20:29 | Have it so that all warforged have some long encoded strand in them that the quori can use to activate them as sleeper agents. Their placement on Xen'Drik all those years a go was all a set up so that they could eventually invade Khorvaire. That or Dal Quor gets smacked out of orbit again. |
| #3oorlofSep 24, 2008 13:39:26 | I think Riedra would win and the Inspired/Quori would lose. In my mind, Riedra has the economic and military superiority - they haven't waged a 100 year war. So after they manage to get massive amounts of troops on Khorvaire, that certainly points in their favor. Shortly afterwards, the turmoil of yet another huge war upsets the cycle of light and dark in Dal Quor, the Age Turns, and all the widdle Quori get recycled into shiny happy bunny-dreams of love. That, or some kobold booby-traps the exit point of Riedra's dropzone, a circle of teleportation, and wipes out half the invading army with a piece of string and a flask of alchemist's fire. |
| #4eehamburgSep 24, 2008 13:42:04 | Have them enact special code 66 and see if anything happens. |
| #5wymarcSep 24, 2008 14:33:50 | Has very little to do with Psionics: Riedra is united and has been stable for the last 100 years. Khorvaire has not. Additionally, iirc, Riedra has a ridiculous population, leading to a ridiculous army. On another note, I doubt the Inspired would attack Khorvaire. They are much more worried about those monks to the south... |
| #6elrodianSep 25, 2008 9:30:43 | i would like to see that. Riedra attack the leader but some make it and lead a counter attack |
| #7mystrichSep 25, 2008 14:05:56 | I don't see why anyone would go with Khorvaire. 1. Riedra has an entire plane on it's side. 2. Even Dragon and Giant magic at it's strongest points could barely fight them off. Invading what is still basically barbaric magically in comparison would let them win. Besides, especially on Khorvaire, Eberron's low level philosophy prevails because of the Last War. Riedra on the other hand has as many resources, more people, and higher levels in PC classes due to the fact that they weren't half wiped out by each other. |
| #8need_a_lifeSep 26, 2008 14:55:20 | Riedra would likely win. Only things that would stop them are: 1) If the turn of the age comes and the Quori are destroyed mid-way, leaving the Riedran foot-men stranded and leaderless. 2) The Chamber, the Lords of Dust or similar organisation objects to people destroying their carefully woven plots and crushes the foot-soldiers and weaken the high-level psions enough to tip the scales of the war. 3) The dragonmarked houses receive prior warning (possibly from the Kalashtar?) allowing strategic placement of troops (Orien + Deneith + Tharask) armed with superior weapons (Cannith), using brilliantly coordinated strategies (Sivis), assassination of enemy leaders (Phirlain + Thuranni) and sending rampaging monsters into the enemy ranks (Vadalis). Possibly tempered with a bit of Medani cunning. 4) The Adarians see their chance when the Riedran army is occupied and initiate their plan of destroying hundreds of monoliths at the same time, weakening the Quori connection with Eberron enough to make it an even fight. |
| #9elrodianSep 26, 2008 16:11:41 | Riedra would likely win. love it!!! but i have to say i am a little said you forgot Lyrandar. which can make a storm to distory there ships |
| #10misterfido_dupSep 26, 2008 16:18:15 | Nobody wins. Every nation in Khorvaire is currently on-edge, ****** off, with thousands or millions of soldiers who are technically at peace with each other and all of which are expert soldiers and combat veterans. Imagine you walk into a room with a group of criminals who are standing up, pointing guns at each other's heads, their fingers squeezing their triggers tighter and tighter... soon to turn into a mega bloodbath with no criminal left alive... And you walk in and say "Hey guys, I'm a cop. Here to arrest you." Beyond THOSE reasons... the strength of the Dreaming Dark depends entirely on them being able to communicate with their troops, and possess their leaders. That strength is earned through monoliths around Sarlona. And the Kalashtar have been waiting and training and planning for thousands of years for the opportunity to fight against the Dreaming Dark's presence once and for all. The Inspired could attack Khorvaire, but they'll face a mean opposition: House Sivis informs all nations that a foreign continent is invading, and every criminal in that room points their gun at you, and fires. Every high-level mage teleports to Riedra and starts blasting them apart. Even people like Vol and that Flamist pope kid join together, because they have strong reasons to work together: Vol can't exactly find her lost bloodline if everyone on Khorvaire is wiped out, and the Flamists are certainly willing to destroy the Inspired evil. In the end, neither side wins: both nations collapse, the monoliths are destroyed with the kalashtar and human combined might. Khorvaire is left a desolate wasteland, with no government--the Inspired have dissipated with the loss of the monoliths and there are only almost-soulless Empty Vessels in command, who have no idea how to do anything besides sit blankly and wait for a Quori to come back and possess them. If Khorvaire manages to repel the invaders, the opportunity to invade each other's weakened territory will be a huge draw, and they may start the Last War up again. This part about the Last War depends largely on if Boranel or another charismatic leader survives, who can stop a renewed civil war before it can begin again. |
| #11HellcowSep 26, 2008 16:36:38 | The dragonmarked houses receive prior warning (possibly from the Kalashtar?) allowing strategic placement of troops (Orien + Deneith + Tharask) armed with superior weapons (Cannith), using brilliantly coordinated strategies (Sivis), assassination of enemy leaders (Phirlain + Thuranni) and sending rampaging monsters into the enemy ranks (Vadalis). Possibly tempered with a bit of Medani cunning. While I understand this whole thread is hypothetical and predicated on the idea that Riedra DOES launch a military invasion, the fact of the matter is that a Riedran conquest would likely be more subtle and complicated. The thing to remember is that the Dreaming Dark has been placing agents in prominent positions in Khorvaire for the last century. Look to Sharn: City of Towers and you'll see an example where they've heavily infiltrated a dragonmarked house - admittedly just one branch of it, but still, it's the sort of thing that gives them opportunity to sow confusion or discord within the house. The Dreaming Dark is one of the prime suspects behind the outbreak of the Last War itself; they could easily have stirred up Jarot's fears and paranoia, while giving his children dreams of glory or destiny. In the current age, they are undoubtedly fueling many of the disruptive organizations that contribute to the ongoing tensions. Before they fight you, the Inspired will do their best to get you fighting yourself. They'll use the Lyrandar-Orien rivalry, the Phiarlan-Thuranni split, and the tensions in House Cannith to counter the potential threat of the Twelve. They'll encourage Aurala to think the time is right to make a play for the throne of Galifar, crippling the resources fo Aundair and Thrane for whatever struggle may lie ahead. And so on. Why fight you with their soldiers when they can fight you with yours? But there are other excellent points here. The Dreaming Dark needs to tread lightly lest it get locked into battle with the Lords of Dust or similar lurking powers. And any one of their little schemes could be stopped by PCs. Now, again, I understand this isn't the scenario you're looking for; you want the Red Dawn campaign, and that's fine. Just consider that the Dreaming Dark has much more at its disposal than soldiers. And conversely, as Misterfido points out, that once those soldiers are out of Riedra and away from the hanbalani network, the Inspired can't fully control their dreams any more, or have such strict control over their lives. Even if they could militarily conquer Khorvaire, they run the risk of losing the absolute control theyhave over their own troops - of having Riedran soldiers begin dreaming about a different sort of life. And that could be more dangerous to them than Khorvaire itself. |
| #12superdeadsmurfSep 26, 2008 16:39:10 | riedra would 100% smack the crap out of khorvaire. They know this. But Guess what? They won't. It's not how they do things. If they attack they have to move a ton of resources away from keeping sarlona stable and building monoliths constantly. They would be mired for 100s of years putting down revolts and rebellions. Why are they SO powerful in their own country? Because the populous WANTS them there. They became the leaders that ENDED wars, brought peace, united the continent (happily ignoring adar and that area near the frostfell & the Oni/Ogre mage country) They don't want to invade Khorvaire, they want Khorvaire to invite them in, naturally take more and more initiative in helping out the countries. You can see this in Q'barra especially, but everywhere else too, including Stormreach. If they are in total control they have a lot less work to do. A good 'riedra invades' storyline could be like a previous poster said, activate ghulra controls over the warforged (any PC warforged would be mysteriously unaffected) and have them begin sweeping across Khorvaire. The Governments would then NEED aid, and the Inspired would happily offer it. Taking out the 'forged quickly and easily. They'd be hailed as heroes, they would become intrinsic in the economies of the failing nations. The Inspired win in the long term, they are unconcerned with the short. |
| #13HellcowSep 26, 2008 16:48:52 | They would be mired for 100s of years putting down revolts and rebellions. Why are they SO powerful in their own country? Because the populous WANTS them there. They became the leaders that ENDED wars, brought peace, united the continent... This is indeed their modus operandi... and if you accept the idea that they Started the Last War, it's the reason that they did it and the reason they're frustrated it's come to a temporary pause. Rather than conquer by force and have to deal with insurgency and outrage, they want you to tear up your own lands and then trick you into welcoming them as your saviors. A key factor here is that if they do this in Khorvaire, odds are good that they won't do it as the Inspired. The original Inspired were leaders WITHIN Sarlona - people who rose up within the troubled nations and forged the strong alliance. As opposed to trying to convince the people of Khorvaire to accept the rule of outsiders, it's more likely that they will create new hosts in Khorvaire itself. And that's the question to you as a DM: who is the Dreaming Dark grooming for this role? It could be anyone. Aurala could actually be sharing her body with a Quori spirit. It could be the most charismatic leaders of the Dragonmarked Houses, advocating a break with feudalism. In the long term, the Inspired want to do to Khorvaire what they've done to Riedra - to create a stable society under their control, anchored by a hanbalani network. But that society doesn't have to LOOK like Riedra or be ruled by Riedran agents. Again, none of this should stop you from running the Red Dawn campaign if that's what you want; all you need is to manufacture a reason that the Inspired feel that they have no choice and MUST act with immediate force or the age will turn. But their current plot is more likely to destroy from within than without. |
| #14oidSep 26, 2008 17:22:05 | the most revered infernal bovine is, guess what... right. they ( the Dreaming Dark) could be usin' the political turmoil in Breland, tryin' to ge a democracy started so that the could easily elect a sleeper or thrall. but in the end i just don't see them winning. between PC's and other faction, possibly even supporin' them (the silver flame, the undying court,kalashatar and so forth.) it just can't happen. |
| #15leowulfSep 26, 2008 21:23:45 | If I was the Dreaming Dark, one thing would make me want to physically go to Korvaire with military forces: the Mournland. The Dreaming Dark are, as the great Hellcow has said, nothing if not subtle. The most unsubtle and most unsettling event in the history of Korvaire was the Mourning. It could be good news - find a way to push the Mournland out to cover the rest of the 5 Kingdoms and then the survivors will hail you as saviors. Or it could be very, very bad news. Nobody knows what caused the Mourning - and therefore nobody knows how to control such a thing or prevent it from happening elsewhere, like in Riedra. That could make people - even evil people from another dimension - nervous, and nervous people behave in unsubtle ways. This thread also provides a good opportunity to ask about PoL in Eberron. What is the most likely way that the very civilized Korvairan setting could be reduced to a dark land dotted with Points of Light? |
| #16HellcowSep 26, 2008 21:37:27 | This thread also provides a good opportunity to ask about PoL in Eberron. What is the most likely way that the very civilized Korvairan setting could be reduced to a dark land dotted with Points of Light? It depends how you define "A dark land dotted with Points of Light". If you mean there's no significant centers of civilization anywhere to be found, then that's going to take a significant shift. But if you simply want to be able to HAVE points of light - isolated areas in need of aid with no-one to turn to - then I think that Khorvaire already has lots to offer. The first is to really consider damage done during the war, both physically and psychologically. Next, combine that with the vast size of Khorvaire. What's been said before is that while it's a little over the top, it has always been intentional that there's a lot more space in the Five Nations than the population requires - that what you have are clumps of civilization separated by stretches of wilderness, where you might yet find a Dhakaani ruin untouched for centuries or the like. Putting the two together, take the border community whose lightning rail has been destroyed during the war, and which, due to the relative unimportance of the community, has yet to be established. Look to something like Rose Quarry in Shadows of the Last War - something that was once an important center of commerce but has since been mined out, so the airships don't run there any more. The closest village is the one across the border - the one whose militia fought you for the last century, and who don't give a damn about the Treaty of Thronehold - you cross the border and they'll try to kill you. Not enough? Then consider the places on the edges of civilization. Try setting your story in the Tharashk outpost in the Demon Wastes, an Eldeen community on the edge of the Gloaming, a Brelish settlement that refused to leave when Boranel ordered them to back off from Droaam, a village deep in the Shadow Marches tormented by loathsome horrors, or a Q'barran community struggling to survive while caught between bandits and lizardfolk. Consider a human village left largely autonomous in Darguun, provided it can manage to raise tribute for the Ghaal'dar every month. or even something like Dolurrh's Dawn in Dragon. We're not going to reduce Eberron to a setting comprised of nothing BUT points of light. But I think there's lots of places where you can find isolated points of light, if the story calls for it. |
| #17PJammaGodSep 28, 2008 7:50:09 | Such an extreme war-bent reality is as Hellcow pointed out unlikely, imagine what a bored Lord of Dust and infinite patience can produce. I mean think about it, a way of that magnitude would weaken both sides, give the Lords of Dust elbow room in both Khorvaire and Riedra. Now with a bit of time and planning they could start busting out some of the imprisoned Rajahs. It's a scary thought, but then again the Lords of Dust are rather scary people. |
| #18need_a_lifeSep 28, 2008 13:24:09 | I didn't mean to imply that the Infernal Bovines creation of Riedra would launch a military invasion. I was simply replying to how Khorvaire would respond to such brute force. Instead, the Dreaming Dark currently have mind-seeded pawns in a good deal of powerful positions, some of which are able to mind-seed other influential people. The Quori already have a powerful foothold in Khorvaire, but they aren't ready to drop the false pretences just yet. No, instead they'll slowly cause the tensions to heighten and heighten until another war breaks out and then a coalition of seemingly unrelated people will gather in the name of peace and bring Khorvaire into a time of stability and peace. While the Inspired probably wouldn't show up by that name, I could see people "Driven by the vision of Galifar" (even if magic detected that vision to be an actual spirit from Dal Quor) controlling a peaceful Khorvaire much easier than the communistic model of Sarlona. Xen'drik would be next on the list, obviously. Then Aernal. And then... do we dare? Argonessen. |
| #19julescarvSep 28, 2008 14:07:13 | I'm thinking that it's more likely that some Khorvese will attempt an invasion of Riedra than the other way around. I'm thinking that maybe Aurala would try to invade Riedra. Kaius is a big supporter of peace in Khorvaire -- effectively, the status quo of four nations with Galifar dead -- and Aurala knows about Riedran humanitarian aid to Karrnath, and somehow gets the idea -- maybe from a few dreams? -- that Riedra is supporting Kaius because they want to keep Khorvaire weak and divided, and preventing Aurala from assuming her rightful place as Queen of all Galifar is the way to do that. If Aundair can conquer Riedra, Aundair's magical might and wizardry able to compensate for its few numbers (after all, the Riedrans don't use much magic, and the fact that they use a whole mess of psionics isn't exactly publicized). The invasion is an utter fiasco. Why, one might almost suspect that the Riedrans themselves planned it themselves, or perhaps plucked the plans straight from the brains of Aundair's officers. The entire force is captured or killed, with the Riedrans suffering minimal casualties. The Aundairan nobility -- particularly those who aren't so enthusiastic about Aurala's ambitions in the first place -- chastise the utter incompetence of the Aundairan crown. Marchers on the streets of Fairhaven demand the resignation of Darro ir'Lain, and, more quietly, some speak of the abdication of Aurala herself. Meanwhile, the Riedrans condemn Aundair's unprovoked surprise attack, and demand various concessions. Yet given Aundair's atrocious behavior in the affair, the demands of Riedra seem quite forgiving -- a small indemnity, and the replacement of several ministers. The replacement ministers were from the more dovish side of Aundairan politics, but are all respected people who might well have attained their positions even without Riedran insistence. Exactly why Riedra insists on their appointment to those positions rather than simply the resignation of those it deems responsible is something of a mystery, but given that they all seem like respected and qualified choices anyway, Aundair has no reason to disagree given the generally forgiving peace offer Riedra is making... |
| #20HellcowSep 28, 2008 16:16:46 | If Aundair can conquer Riedra, Aundair's magical might and wizardry able to compensate for its few numbers (after all, the Riedrans don't use much magic, and the fact that they use a whole mess of psionics isn't exactly publicized). Now, I realize that you're presenting this as a hypothetical situation and one that would be unwise on Aurala's part (and based on incomplete information)... but just for any DMs who don't realize this, I'll point out that Riedra does have experience dealing with arcane magic. The Heirs of Ohr Kaluun and the Keepers of the Word have both been long-time enemies... and the Edgewalker corps of the Harmonious Shield actually has abjurers trained to counter the magic of fiends and horrors. The Edgewalkers in particular are going to be something known only to sages well-versed in Riedran culture... but they are a resource that could be called into play. Of course, if you REALLY want some chaos... perhaps it's not dreams that convince Aurala to act. Perhaps it's a pact with some fiendish force - or, say, the Horned Shadow or Heirs of Ohr Kaluun. Aurala strikes Riedra, the Inspired draw the Edgewalkers away from their standard positions to counter the arcane threat... and with the guardians away, something horrible forces its way through the wild zones of Riedra to threaten the entire world. |
| #21ScrinoverlordOct 04, 2008 11:42:18 | Wait, Hellcow...are you Keith Baker...THE Keith Baker? ![]() |
| #22elrodianOct 04, 2008 13:18:17 | Yes he is. It is OK at less you did not use something that he wrote in order to say he is wrong like i did before i knew it was him. I do not think that Aurala would just attack, it is not like her. She would mostly help the Adar and ally with them. Then trade some stuff with the keepers of the word then slow build a force in adar. As that is going on she starts helping out Kalashtar in her nations to show that she is true to her word. I think that would be cool because the Kalashtar could become part of the government and hold noble titles and other thing of the kind. |
| #23HellcowOct 04, 2008 14:07:17 | Wait, Hellcow...are you Keith Baker...THE Keith Baker? I'd say "the one and only", but there's actually quite a few of us out there. But yes, I am the Eberron author Keith Baker. |
| #24joni-sanOct 04, 2008 16:02:51 | Word of God anyone? ![]() -Joni |
| #25Elton74Oct 04, 2008 17:51:10 | Oh, geeze. ![]() |
| #26ScrinoverlordOct 05, 2008 17:51:00 | Having now gotten over my initial shock, I have to ask you Keith... Meh, never-mind. I'll PM you or something (I'll post a particularly nice topic so my PM stands out from all the others I'm sure you receive daily O_o). But to get back on-topic, I've now begun to run the campaign (having done extensive conversions from 3.5 to 4.0), and the Inspired just swept through Sykarn and the Tashana Tundra, and a massive attack was ordered on Adar, but the Riedrans had massive casualties bestowed upon them and the fortress-cities of the Kalashatar were barely scratched. They're currently at Wroat, trying to alert Boranel that invasion is imminent from Riedra. I'm curious though. Khorvaire has been hardened by a century of war. Would Khorvaire had stood a better chance united as Galifar, where its armies would be united and strong, or would it fare better as it is now, with its people hardened by war? |
| #27HellcowOct 05, 2008 18:10:25 | I'm curious though. Khorvaire has been hardened by a century of war. Would Khorvaire had stood a better chance united as Galifar, where its armies would be united and strong, or would it fare better as it is now, with its people hardened by war? It's a good question. Khorvaire's troops have a level of active combat experience they'd have lacked a century ago, and having endured a century of war already, it's people may not be so quick to surrender... which is why the traditional practice of the DD is to raise a savior from within instead of conquer from without. A brute force conquest means dealing with insurgency and resistance and having to maintain rule through occupation and martial law. If they can actually convince the people that they WANT to be ruled by the Inspired, they avoid that. But again, since this is the invasion scenario, the factors I see are that on the one hand troops are more experienced... but on the other, resources have been stretched thin; tensions between the nations remain extremely high, which will make it difficult for, for example, a Thranish unit to cooperate with a Karrnathi unit; and you have the general malaise of the Mourning, with many fearing that it is a portent of the end of the world. Then consider how any of these factors could be expanded on by disturbing dreams - commanders constantly dreaming of the treachery of the other nations, the second Mourning that will happen if they continue to fight, etc. The individual soldier may be hardened, but the nations are weaker because they stand alone and have burned many resources. Personally, if the Riedrans were to physically invade, I'd at the very least expect them to ally with ONE of the existing nations, which they could then use as a figurehead. If they work with Aurala, they have a strong beachhead in the nation and eliminate the threat of Aundairian magic. If they ally with Oargev, they can claim to be supporting the ancestral claim of Mishann. Again, it's not like the Inspired to rely purely on physical warfare; psychological warfare is by far their greater strength. |
| #28DDiceRCOct 05, 2008 18:53:20 | Eberron n00b, so excuse me if this is an uninformed question. Is there anything that would prevent you from using one of the existing rulers/powers as a Riedran agent? For example, maybe the reason Boranel was so strong about seeking peace, thus becoming something of a "savior," is that he is possessed/controlled by the Quori? |
| #29drackthorOct 05, 2008 19:03:42 | Have it so that all warforged have some long encoded strand in them that the quori can use to activate them as sleeper agents. Their placement on Xen'Drik all those years a go was all a set up so that they could eventually invade Khorvaire. "Execute Order...66!" |
| #30HellcowOct 05, 2008 19:09:39 | Is there anything that would prevent you from using one of the existing rulers/powers as a Riedran agent? For example, maybe the reason Boranel was so strong about seeking peace, thus becoming something of a "savior," is that he is possessed/controlled by the Quori? Not only is there nothing preventing this, but it's exactly the sort of thing I suggest on my website. In my opinion, one of the most interesting elements of the Dreaming Dark is the fact that almost anyone could be a part of it - so my suggestion is to decide at the start of the campaign what forces in the world are their primary pawns in Khorvaire. We suggest a few in places like Sharn, but in my opinion, these are suggestions. Aurala, Boranel, Merrix d'Cannith, Oargev, Cardinal Krozen... any one of them could be interesting Quori agents, and produce a very different sort of campaign. This also prevents experienced Eberron DMs from knowing exactly what to expect; just because Boranel's a good guy in their campaign doesn't stop him from being a Quori agent in yours. |
| #31ScrinoverlordOct 05, 2008 20:06:18 | I'm almost certain King Jarot was influenced considerably by the Dreaming Dark, and his scions also heavily affected. The DD gave them visions of power over the continent-wide empire of Galifar, of its subjects bowing down to them. Personally, IMO, had it not been for the Day of Mourning, the denizens of Khorvaire might have been united under the Riedran banner after centuries of war, just as the old Sarlonan kingdoms were. My campaign just turned sour---one of my dragonborn characters (in my campaign, dragonborn are, you guessed it, from Argonnessen) abruptly tried to kill Boranel, and the entire adventuring party was tossed down into the sewers of Sharn. Several otyughs and a couple dozen carrion crawlers later, the adventuring group decides to go to Riedra to personally try to stop the invasion. ![]() To be honest, I didn't see any of this coming. Boranel was honestly going to arrange for a multinational meeting in Thronehold to discuss a possible Military Mutual Act, but now he's as ignorant as the rest of the leaders of Khorvaire. |
| #32HellcowOct 05, 2008 20:11:42 | I'm almost certain King Jarot was influenced considerably by the Dreaming Dark, and his scions also heavily affected. The DD gave them visions of power over the continent-wide empire of Galifar, of its subjects bowing down to them. I don't know about "bowing down to them", but it's certainly reasonable to think that Thalin had dreams of a nation united beneath the banner of the Silver Flame, that Wroaan saw a more democratic Galifar, that Kaius saw a powerful nation united under the strongest leader since Karrn himself... Everyone has different dreams, and it's just a matter of how the DD can make them serve their purposes. But yes, while it's not something we explicitly state, given the the precendent of the Sundering, it's certainly a reasonable assumption that the DD were involved in the start of the Last War. |
| #33RelicOct 05, 2008 22:59:38 | Not only is there nothing preventing this, but it's exactly the sort of thing I suggest on my website. In my opinion, one of the most interesting elements of the Dreaming Dark is the fact that almost anyone could be a part of it - so my suggestion is to decide at the start of the campaign what forces in the world are their primary pawns in Khorvaire. We suggest a few in places like Sharn, but in my opinion, these are suggestions. Aurala, Boranel, Merrix d'Cannith, Oargev, Cardinal Krozen... any one of them could be interesting Quori agents, and produce a very different sort of campaign. This also prevents experienced Eberron DMs from knowing exactly what to expect; just because Boranel's a good guy in their campaign doesn't stop him from being a Quori agent in yours. This is one of my favorite aspects of Eberron... the intrigue and mystery in the cults, organizations, and powers that be. Also the fact that those cults, organizations, and powers that be are so well designed that they can be as prominent or absent as you want, or they can be as intertwined or stand-alone as you want. |
| #34ScrinoverlordOct 06, 2008 20:26:22 | voided |
| #35ScrinoverlordNov 15, 2008 9:14:40 | You know Keith, I actually read Secrets of Sarlona again, and noticied something that could fit my excuse of the Dreaming Dark/Riedra not being so subtle in their conquest of Khorvaire. The commander of the Harminous Shield. Lord Zoratesh. Quote: "He has no paitence for the slow manipulation of the Dreaming Dark, and he wants to launch an invasion of Khorvaire. In such a scenario, psionic teleportation circles would be used to launch sudden and decisive strikes against hte capitals of Khorvaire, seeking to eliminate nobles, dragonmarked barons, and other threats." You know, for a while I was afraid I wouldn't have a good reason as to why the Riedrans just...attacked Khorvaire instead of slowly manipulating it. Maybe Lord Zoratesh got enouogh support to launch a strike? The Eberron campaigns currently are on hold (can't find anything to do with dragonmarks, and they're a crucial role in my campaign), but in 7 months (damn it, can't wait that long), when the Eberron 4E Guide comes out, that just might pass for an excuse. |
| #36scipion_emilienNov 15, 2008 13:40:07 | They are always warmongers in a faction. You could make your first adventure as having your PC stumble upon some dreaming dark master plan and foil it by sheer luck. This plan could be the key of all the Riedrans operations on Khorvaire. By losing this key, the DD establishement feel that others powers like the lord of dust or the dragon or even the plain ordinary state agency are undermining the remaining operations and that the DD is totally losing it s grip on Khorvaire. The warmongers in Riedran gain importance because of the failure of the more subtile faction, and then an invasion start rapidly because of the fear of Riedra to lose Khorvaire, they feel that a fast invasion is now the only answer possible. |
| #37Marcus_MajarraNov 16, 2008 14:17:32 | Under the premise that Riedra would indeed attempt to launch a military invasion of Khorvaire, I'd imagine they would do this gradually. Think about it. Why assault a large number of different nations, giving them the incentive to unite against a common foe, where they could just pick on them, one by one? Would any Thrane be willing to risk his or her life to defend Karrnath against a Riedran invasion, especially after the Last War has just ended and all those political tensions are still very high? This is the kind of military-based campaign you can give your PCs a lot to do in. Since the invasion is gradual, the PCs become witnesses to the slow downfall of Khorvaire, and can become involved in trying to unite the Five Nations against the Dreaming Dark. This said, I still think that it's more likely for the Dreaming Dark to subtly sow dischord within Khorvaire and present the Inspired as saviors and unifiers, much like they did for the Sarlonan nations of old. It's a safer investment for them, and they would wind up with a population that actually wants them around, as opposed to having an oppressed population that seeks rebellion. |
| #38skrapsanNov 16, 2008 23:37:08 | ...as opposed to having an oppressed population that seeks rebellion. But maybe that's the idea, maybe they first want to make an invasion. Then suddenly along comes a competent bunch of politicians/nobles in each nation that manages to beat back the Riedra armies. This makes them heroes, and people start giving them more and more power. Then they start "peace talks" and seek to unite Khorvaire once more under the same banner. This gives them the bonus of having an outer enemy too blame for all the bad things that happens. Just like they do in Sarlona. Think of star wars episode 1 2 and 3 here... |
| #39PJammaGodNov 16, 2008 23:45:41 | If we're looking for motivations as to why the Quori after 3000 years of successful divide, messiah and conquer tactics would suddenly rush towards open warfare, you need look no further than to the past. It's hinted at throughout Secrets of Xen'Drik and Secrets of Sarlona that the previous Quori invaded Eberron en-masse to escape the turning of the age (Quor Taratai). Of course who actually started the war between the Quori and the Giants is anybodies guess (and another forum topic altogether) Perhaps the Dreaming Dark realise that after all this time of prayer and doing Father Christmas deeds the Kalashtar may in fact be spurring on the turn of the age and are deathly afraid of being destroyed. Perhaps the turning is happening as such a fast rate they don't have another 5 centuries to slowly wrap Khorvaire around their fingers. They need to move now and get the Hanbalani in place in 5 years tops or else everything they've built goes to mush and all the Quori get recycled as spirits of light... Just my two cents worth. Oh to the OP, this topic's an awesome premise I might add. I'm tempted to start another Eberron campaign just to inflict this coolness upon my players. Thread Yoink! |
| #40GiloNov 17, 2008 2:16:32 | My campaign just turned sour---one of my dragonborn characters (in my campaign, dragonborn are, you guessed it, from Argonnessen) abruptly tried to kill Boranel, and the entire adventuring party was tossed down into the sewers of Sharn. He was clearly under some Quori influence at the time. The all thing was planned to get the PCs out of the way and keep the Citadel busy while the Inspired execute their real plan: For almost a year they have been working in the lower parts of Sharn influencing groups like the Boromar Clan to gather information about Kalashtar living in the city. Now that their distraction worked they are going to eliminate all the Kalashtar in Sharn in one sweeping blow. The next step: Establish a friendly foothold in one of the nations allow them to 'invite' Riedra forces and/or build a big monolith as a 'gesture of friendship' between the two nations. |
| #41ScrinoverlordNov 17, 2008 12:19:57 | Can I ask something? Would a Riedran consider himself, say, a Corvaguran secondly (first being Riedran)? I have a PC who wants to be a Riedran refugee and his character feels more proud to be Pyrinian than Riedran. It's like if a Texan, or New Yorker, or a Englishmen, or a Scotsman. |
| #42PJammaGodNov 17, 2008 20:37:41 | The Riedran would consider themselves a human first and foremost. Riedra has a racial caste system where humans are middle rung (changeling are up a bit, next is Chosen and finally Inspired). They need to work with the il-altas (Quori spirit with goodly connotations) towards being reincarnated in a more spiritually perfect form. Of course as a Reidran refugee it's certainly possible that they have rejected the teachings of the Inspired. After 1000 of control the Inspired have begun to wipe out most of the cultural background of the Riedrans, replacing it with their own crude mockery of society. So what does your character do upon realising that their so-called cultural identity is a sham? They go back to their roots and try to find their place and meaning in the wider world. Which of course can mean if they are Pyrinian taking up worship of the Sovereign Host with a fervor rarely seen in modern times. When you loose one cultual background you're very likely to seek out another and embrace it whole-heartidly. |
| #43Marcus_MajarraNov 17, 2008 23:45:24 | But maybe that's the idea, maybe they first want to make an invasion. Then suddenly along comes a competent bunch of politicians/nobles in each nation that manages to beat back the Riedra armies. This makes them heroes, and people start giving them more and more power. Then they start "peace talks" and seek to unite Khorvaire once more under the same banner. This gives them the bonus of having an outer enemy too blame for all the bad things that happens. Just like they do in Sarlona. I am, except that Palpatine set up for another force (i.e. the Trade Federation) to take the blame, rather than his own (the Republic/Galactic Empire). As such, if we were to translate this to Eberron, the Inspired would probably set it up so that another force launches an invasion on Khorvaire while they present themselves as saviors. Thus, when actually attempting an invasion, it would be through a proxy they could later dispose of with relative ease. Do not read the following if you're playing the Scales of War adventure path: Show This could actually be a good background plot for someone seeking to run the Scales of War in Eberron; which I plan to do sometime soon. The Inspired could very well be the force behind the resurgence of violence in that path. |
| #44julescarvNov 18, 2008 3:40:30 | What about a Riedra takes over Khorvaire scenario (by invasion or subversion) where it turns out that it's really the Inspired who are being played for chumps? I'm thinking that maybe the Lords of Dust want someone to disestablish the Church of the Silver Flame for them, and somehow fool the Riedrans into weakening the bindings keeping them in place. |
| #45durskutNov 18, 2008 8:19:43 | In an aborted game, I had Riedra "filling in the edges" of the map. The section my PCs encountered was an army in the Seawall mountains carving out the Dhakaani. Really any place where there is little or no contact with the main of Khorvaire could be a staging area for Riedra if the DM willed it. The primary cause for this is the logistical nightmare of invading a continent. Even with the leaders communicating via Dal Quor, the numbers and distances involved would likely stop any naval force. The main problem with teleportation circles is limited access. One could send a strike force through to target key figures of power, but trying to cram enough troops, food, weapons, and equipment to fight a war through a 10' wide circle is really not going to happen either. I think a Riedran invasion of Khorvaire would start something like this: Seawall Mountains --> Darguun --> Zilargo --> Breland __/--> Reaches Shadow Marches --> Droaam --/ \---> Breland Hit Zilargo to draw Breland into defending it's ally. Then hit Breland from the back while its troops are out of position. The reaches force moves up to prepare to invade Aundair. Breland has to be taken out first for a couple reasons. 1. They're the strongest/most equipped to fight a war. 2. After the Inspired make their intentions clear, the "we're taking out security threats for you" act they'll probably be playing won't work a 2nd time. 3. With some advance water soldier work, the lightning rail lines can be cut and there would be a significant land gap between Breland's larger population areas (the dagger river) and potential allied nations. Anyway, that's my 2cp for anyone thinking about doing the invasion thing. Happy Gaming! Edit: I fully support adding the extra layer JulesCARV mentioned if your player can handle it. Mixing in more confusing twists is always a good idea IMO. |
| #46balardNov 23, 2008 15:28:14 | I like the ideia of the Riedran invasion being in reality a ploy from another secret group. Maybe the Lord of the Dust, or even Vol herself, trying to weaken the misterious continent that the dragons don't go. She works with the kalashtar, and by learning a bit of the Prophecy about the second fall of Dal Quor, and undertanding that the Last War was caused by the Quori, she moves everyone so they in a desesperate gambit for more monoliths, they invade khorvaire. Than she goes to Sarlona to do the same thing the Quori did |
| #47ScrinoverlordNov 24, 2008 11:35:12 | And if Zoratesh got enough support to launch an actual invasion of Khorvaire? Say that he did, but the Dreaming Dark didn't approve. Riedra takes over Khorvaire, Zuratesh gets what he wants. What would the DD do next? |