For a grittier game I'd suggest Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, although you'd probably want to houserule some parts (especially magic) to better capture Eberron's flavour.
Anyone here familiar with Exalted?
Savage Worlds is loads of fun, though I admit I have only played one-shots. It's very rules-light, so I'm not sure it has enough meat to sustain a campaign. Keith Baker reportedly uses it for his, though I'd wager it is heavily house-ruled. I think it would depend on how much you roleplay vs. combat. A heavy roleplay campaign would rock with SW.
This is exactly what I was looking for - a more roleplay oriented campaign compared to the combat heavy one.
Don't get me wrong, I'd still like the occasional epic battle, but not 4 times every session.
So, you're saying Keith uses Savage Worlds to run an Eberron campaign? Seems like Savage Worlds is getting a lot of praise.
He did mention that he likes Over the Edge and the HERO system, although he didn't specify running Eberron with either of them...Given that Hellcow just posted in another thread that he's never played Savage Worlds, I'd take such reports with a suitable amount of salt.
Indeed. I'm pretty certain he's only ever claimed to be using 4E for his Eberron games. He did essentially say that 4E is not his absolutely favorite system, merely the one he likes to use for Eberron, at present.
As NthDegree said, Keith likes different systems for different purposes, just like any other gamer.
I don't know where I am remembering that from, then. Perhaps a dream. Mea culpa.
Or, even more likely, someone posted it here. You were probably victimized by the passage of time, thousands of posts running through your mind and that ever-lurking threat-- internet disinformation. ;)
It's a beautiful system, blending rules with cinematic flavour seamlessly and rules are clearly behind the scenes.
There's already a fan-made conversion here.
Personally, I don't really agree with this particular conversion, though it's one of the better ones out there.
If you're going to invest in Savage Worlds (80DKR or around 10US$) you'll have all you need, though SW encourages you to add Hindrances, Races and Edges (in that order of importance) to suit the specific setting as it is a generic system.
If you're feeling interested in picking up other things that can help a conversion, I'm scavenging things from the RunePunk and Shaintar setting in my own effort to convert the setting.
Also, you should remember that in SW the standard DC is 4 (the skill roll may have modifiers somewhere between +2 and -8, though). A +1 bonus, being worth little in D&D is makes a task a LOT easier in SW.
Something to remember.
The Warforged and Changelings are the hardest to convert properly, as with everything in SW you convert flavour rather than mechanics, and these races are very closely tied to their mechanics in many aspects.
I also encourage the use of 4E-style ritual casting (more on that in the Shaintar SW book) for certain tasks [binding elementals etc.]
Okay, this post became a bit longer than I'd intended.
I'll re-iterate my points.
- Savage Worlds is a great system.
- It takes a lot of getting used to when coming from D&D
- Convert flavour, not mechanics.
- Make sure both you and your players enjoy the system (no system is for everyone)
I created a few house rules to keep the Eberron feel (after all, I do NOT want super heroes running around): http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=32104
If you want a big change from D&D, it might not be your thing. But it's a cool fun system.
The players have gone from the bottom of the Seasoned rank (which is where I converted their 3rd or 4th level characters from), and are now about halfway through Heroic. In terms of raw power, yeah, they're probably about 10th-level equivalent, if only because there's not the same kind of "you win" high-level spells (Wish, disintegrate, etc). Sure, you can have something /like/ Disintegrate (the Bolt spell, with appropriate trappings), but it's not a Save-or-Die.
We've got a shifter artificer, kalashtar psion, human paladin of the Silver Flame, and a warforged "force recon" type.
I'm pretty pleased with how it plays out - we have a fair amount of combat, but I do rather a lot more intrigue, politics, schemes and conspiracies.
I really love Eberron but I'm growing weary of the D&D systems (4th, 3rd and older...). Are there any other systems out there that do fantasy and intrigue well that aren't D&D?
I agree. I had thought I might pick up the new Eberron products, but, honestly, I'm not real fond of how 4E Eberron turned out.
I've seen a few good GURPS versions of Eberron. GURPS is pretty rules heavy compared to 4E, but I feel that the mentality behind the system's design better suits the more gritty style of Eberron.
I agree. I had thought I might pick up the new Eberron products, but, honestly, I'm not real fond of how 4E Eberron turned out.
Why not?
Because he's not happy with how 4e turned out would be the standard guess.
Well, yes and no...
I do play 4E, and I enjoy it, but I honestly feel that there are certain styles of gameplay and certain campaign styles which 4E isn't suited for as well as certain other systems are.
As for 4E Eberron, I feel that Eberron's atmosphere (in my opinion, and in regards to what attracted me personally to Eberron in the past) tends to be better suited to the design mentality behind a few other systems as opposed to the mentality and ideals which 4E is built around. I feel that -for me personally- I expect a style of gameplay from Eberron which can be done by 4E, but not done with enough proficiency for me to have the experience that I want from the setting.
That really isn't the main issue for me though. My main issue is that the setting was changed so as to better fit the new 4E cosmology. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; however, I feel that there was no need to do this because that's the whole idea behind having a different setting - having a setting in which things are different. Many of the changes are small changes, but, as I've said elsewhere, sometimes the small details can be what define something.
In contrast to that statement, I actually like the new version of Forgotten Realms. I find the changes to the setting to be well done even if they haven't been well recieved. I also feel that the way in which the new version of the setting was done was done in a way which created something new, but still found a way to maintain some semblence of continuity. Beyond that, I also feel that FR tends to advocate a style of play which is more in line with 4E's ideals.
I could see running the setting with other rules, if that's your thing. But for me, Eberron was the setting that got me to pick up D&D again after BECM/Mystara was canceled.
Oh, well, that's a fair response then. I can see your point. I had actually held onto my v3.5 D&D books and Eberron Campaign Guide until I got the 4e Eberron Player's Guide. When I saw it and saw that (in my style of play) it made it easier to run it the way I wanted (high action, high magic, and the plot never having to bow to the rules) it made me happy enough to put my old v3.5 stuff up for sale at last.
I could see running the setting with other rules, if that's your thing. But for me, Eberron was the setting that got me to pick up D&D again after BECM/Mystara was canceled.
Eberron is a great setting, but, for me, I was drawn to the darkness and the grit of the setting. Eberron is virtually the perfect 'Points of Light' setting. As such, when I'm involved in an Eberron game, I want to explore the grit and the darkness.
I'm not saying it's impossible to do this with 4E; it's very possible to do this. Whether or not it's possible to do it to the extent I want without modifying the system to work in different ways in a different question.
I don't feel that 4E is wrong, bad; whatever... I only recognize that it doesn't have the same ideals about gaming that I do.
I happen to be helping with an Exalted conversion...
Anyone here familiar with Exalted?
Using the rules for heroic mortals, I assume? While a Demigods of Eberron chronicle might be interesting, I don't think the Exalted themselves are good for a baseline Eberron game.
That said, noir doesn't really need much of a system in my book. Dirty and gritty intrigue and suspense are easier to do with storytelling systems like WoD or Dread. With 4e, you can do that with skill challenges or just go free-form narrative for those elements. However, one significant element of noir is lethality, and that 4e certainly does not have.
However, one significant element of noir is lethality, and that 4e certainly does not have.
Dramatic death. The murder(s), loss of a loved one, bad guys killing innocents, and the like are common, but when a protagonist dies, it's an ironic event that happens happens towards the end of the story. If the guy has a girl, she either dies at the beginning, thus providing the impetus of the story, or dies towards the end, thus rendering all the protagonist's efforts futile. How it works in most stories actually.
Having any system that would encourage protagonist death, yet also continues the narrative with new protagonists tends to suck all the drama and sense of loss out of it.
The only genre I can think of where where significant protagonists are generally expected to get bumped half-way through the story in less-dramatic fashion is horror and maybe some action-thrillers.
Using the rules for heroic mortals, I assume?
Uh... Sort of?