What the hell was the point of this thread?
Lets see... 4e Eberron makes you sad? Lets examine possible reasons why. Maybe its because 4e actually fits the pulp noir feel of Eberron better than 3e did? Hmmm, that's not really a reason to be sad about 4e Eberron. I know, its because Kieth, Eberron's creator, the mind behind this great setting, actually prefers 4e to 3e (by all visible accounts) and has been re-invigorated by the new edition? No, wait, that's not really a reason to be sad either.
What the hell was the point of this thread?
Why are you angry at him? You like 4E, he perhaps doesn't. Your feeling that 4E fits the pulp noir better is very personal, others may feel it in different way.
It's fine that Kieth prefers 4E ... on the other hand it's very hard to imagine him saying he doesn't like 4E. With full respact to KB, I have to judge these words by the whole environment he lives in. In the end, it could be that he prefers 4E to 3.5E ... but Beavisfett likes different style of the game, as many others.
So, fine ... from you post we know that you like 4E and from that point you prefer it for Eberron ... again: what's wrong on opinion of many players disliking 4E? Races, classes, powers ... all of that change so many things and even I cannot say that all changes are for better for me ... so, do you have some specfic arguments?
4E eberron makes me sad.
Thats nice....maybe we should persuade Keith to add a touch of Goth to Eberron and bingo we can all be angst depressed beings and pretend were playing World of Darkness:Eberron. :D
Lets all share in the sadness.
OK sarcasm mode off now.
How the %$^^ can you be sad about something not yet released ????
4th edition Eberron makes me happy, very happy. Therefor it follows that someone, or multiple someones, must become unhappy to balance the equation. My sincerest apologies to the OP for contributing to his current depression.
Awwe.
How? It's not even out yet.
the changes in dragonmarks and warforged mainly I mean really why play a WF now?
Obviously the OP is suffering from the affects of the law of emotional conservation, "for every emotion there is an equal and opposite emotion."
4th edition Eberron makes me happy, very happy. Therefor it follows that someone, or multiple someones, must become unhappy to balance the equation. My sincerest apologies to the OP for contributing to his current depression.
Well it doenst really matter as you couldnt pay me to play 4E after play testing it. I will never buy another WOTC product due to that fiasaco in my mind.
Lets see... 4e Eberron makes you sad? Lets examine possible reasons why. Maybe its because 4e actually fits the pulp noir feel of Eberron better than 3e did? Hmmm, that's not really a reason to be sad about 4e Eberron. I know, its because Kieth, Eberron's creator, the mind behind this great setting, actually prefers 4e to 3e (by all visible accounts) and has been re-invigorated by the new edition? No, wait, that's not really a reason to be sad either.
What the hell was the point of this thread?
If you dont like it dont read it or dont at least post and I wont say I what I really think about 4E as I made my feelings on that blankety blank elsewhere.
Thats nice....maybe we should persuade Keith to add a touch of Goth to Eberron and bingo we can all be angst depressed beings and pretend were playing World of Darkness:Eberron. :D
Lets all share in the sadness.
OK sarcasm mode off now.
How the %$^^ can you be sad about something not yet released ????
simple they killed it with 4E
I think that the OP is just sad that they have to wait for 4E Eberron. That's all. Kind of simple. But fear not. It shall be here soon enough.
Wrong I am sad I might have to wait for a proper editon of the game which wont most likely ever happen
Perhaps the OP has found out 4Eberron will be full of one-legged puppies, one-eyed teddies and orphan kittens.
Awwe.
no its full of changed rules on dragonmarks and broken warforged
simple they killed it with 4E
Sorry but I have to say that is complete tosh.
1) Eberron 4e isnt out yet - in fact they havnt even finished writing the book so we are in no way able to judge it at all as a stand alone product.
2) The WF Dragon article was well written and gave us a great WF that I for one am already seeing played in Eberron games i run.
3) 4ed has actually taken away the shackles of 3.5 and allowed me now to run games that are completely over the top and far more aligned with the Eberron philosophy of pulp adventures.
To simply say 4e killed it is simply untrue.
Wrong I am sad I might have to wait for a proper editon of the game which wont most likely ever happen
I think you will find if you look really closely at the covers of 4ed books they are labelled "Dungeons & Dragons". I also think you'll find they are all published by WOTC the company that owns the rights to D&D.
Therefore for clarification sake - this means that 4ed is just as much a "proper edition" of the game as any of the previous incarnations.
The new rules on warforged rock. There are no currently existence new rules on dargonmarks printed anywhere, so your opinion is baseless.
Ok.... off to add another poster to my ignore list.
Yeah I made someone list and there has been statements made about dragonmarks not beng restricted by race so you dont know what your talking about.
Sorry but I have to say that is complete tosh.
1) Eberron 4e isnt out yet - in fact they havnt even finished writing the book so we are in no way able to judge it at all as a stand alone product.
2) The WF Dragon article was well written and gave us a great WF that I for one am already seeing played in Eberron games i run.
3) 4ed has actually taken away the shackles of 3.5 and allowed me now to run games that are completely over the top and far more aligned with the Eberron philosophy of pulp adventures.
To simply say 4e killed it is simply untrue.
So your a fan of 4E and thats fine but for me anything in 4E is dead I dont like it as for me its to much like a really bad mmo as far as I am concerned they killed clerics and arcanes which in games I ran werent really broken as we didnt use anything beyond the core 3 books and usually started over in all our games around lvl 10-12. I hate wotc for what they did to a game I love and thats fine as I can state here for a few who understand and many who dont and thats fine I guess most players my age have quit playing or at very least dont come here. But if KB likes 4E better then I have lost all desire to meet or play with him, but still respect him for his original idea.
I think you will find if you look really closely at the covers of 4ed books they are labelled "Dungeons & Dragons". I also think you'll find they are all published by WOTC the company that owns the rights to D&D.
Therefore for clarification sake - this means that 4ed is just as much a "proper edition" of the game as any of the previous incarnations.
WRONG if gary saw he most likely would cry out about what they did to his game. just because you slap a label on a orange and call ilt an apple makes it so. Hasbro owns it so they can call it they want but its still not dnd. if you look at original-3.5 they still the same game over all same spell mechanics same basic classes. In 4E they arent I just wish I had spent my money on something else but I was excited and thought maybe they had done some great but for me quite the other way. Not saying your wrong for liking the game but dont say I am wrong for hating it and spreading my opinion THANK VERY MUCH.
Why are you angry at him? You like 4E, he perhaps doesn't. Your feeling that 4E fits the pulp noir better is very personal, others may feel it in different way.
It's fine that Kieth prefers 4E ... on the other hand it's very hard to imagine him saying he doesn't like 4E. With full respact to KB, I have to judge these words by the whole environment he lives in. In the end, it could be that he prefers 4E to 3.5E ... but Beavisfett likes different style of the game, as many others.
So, fine ... from you post we know that you like 4E and from that point you prefer it for Eberron ... again: what's wrong on opinion of many players disliking 4E? Races, classes, powers ... all of that change so many things and even I cannot say that all changes are for better for me ... so, do you have some specfic arguments?
tHANK YOU
WRONG if gary saw he most likely would cry out about what they did to his game. just because you slap a label on a orange and call ilt an apple makes it so. Hasbro owns it so they can call it they want but its still not dnd. if you look at original-3.5 they still the same game over all same spell mechanics same basic classes. In 4E they arent I just wish I had spent my money on something else but I was excited and thought maybe they had done some great but for me quite the other way. Not saying your wrong for liking the game but dont say I am wrong for hating it and spreading my opinion THANK VERY MUCH.
Lets be clear on something no one can truly know what Gary thought about 4ed. I would hope he would see it as another incarnation of a game he originally created back when i was a small boy in the early 70's - on other hand he may not. It is rumoured he didnt think much of 2nd, 3rd or 3.5 ed but we will probably never know. (Ive not got time to looking round the internet for quotes).
Nobody has said 4ed isnt different but it is D&D. It still has the same stats, uses AC, HPS, Levels etc. It has a much reduced skill system which in terms of actual skills is more akin to 1ed. I agree it is very different in how it plays but you know what I find its actually slicker and faster than any of the older editions (each to their own though).
What i find bizarre is a suggestion that continues to be made across many threads and that is that 4ed has killed D&D, or that 4ed isnt D&D - im sorry but it is. If you dont like that fine, play an earlier edition. Ive just got home from my weekly session - we played a game called Basic Fantasy RP. Its a mish mash of earlier editions of D&D - you know what it was fun. Yesterday i DM'd 4ed Eberron for my son and his friends - guess what it was also fun. I simply fail to see how any edition of this great game is killing anything off or making anyone sad. In simple terms of you dont like an edition then dont play/DM it - stick with what you like.
It has a much reduced skill system which in terms of actual skills is more akin to 1ed.
Hey Dargurd. I agree with almost everything you wrote, except for that. I don't really remember any skills in AD&D at all. There were non weapon proficiencies... but I don't remember them having nearly as many applications as the 4e skill system. To be honest, the 4e skill system (to me) looks more like the 3e skill system, but with an AD&D style of "skill training." IE: Its a 3e skill system without the skill points, and with consolidated skill groups. But, that is just me. Your millage may vary.
4E eberron makes me sad.
I'm really sad it isn't out yet too! :'(
WRONG if gary saw he most likely would cry out about what they did to his game. just because you slap a label on a orange and call ilt an apple makes it so. Hasbro owns it so they can call it they want but its still not dnd. if you look at original-3.5 they still the same game over all same spell mechanics same basic classes. In 4E they arent I just wish I had spent my money on something else but I was excited and thought maybe they had done some great but for me quite the other way. Not saying your wrong for liking the game but dont say I am wrong for hating it and spreading my opinion THANK VERY MUCH.
Actually, somewhere on the Troll Lord forums in (I think) June, there was a thread that a relative of Gary's posted on and said that he'd seen an early version of it and was looking forward to seeing a finished version, as opposed to 3.5 which he actively disliked. Apparently he saw a lot of elements that he thought brought it back past 3rd and 2nd to 1st, and he was interested to see if this edition could get it right.
And, with some fairly subjective data, I think he might have liked it. I know a few 1e holdouts, who didn't upgrade to 2nd, read 3rd when it came out and hated that too. But they saw 4th and, with the exception of one guy who is just stubborn, every grey-haired 1e holdout I know has switched to 4e, and have commented how easy it was to convert their campaign, and how they find the combat runs smoother, etc, etc. One of the things they mentioned (and something that Gary Gygax has said in interview is what he feels differentiated D&D from other RPGs) is that it reigned in the class/multiclass/PrC craziness of 3rd ed and brought it back to defined class roles like in 1e. One guy I know in person, not online, has a group of four, and all of them jokingly call it 1.5 D&D.
So, it's not an objective study, but that's some fairly substantial evidence that Gary Gygax might have actually liked 4e.
Actually, somewhere on the Troll Lord forums in (I think) June, there was a thread that a relative of Gary's posted on and said that he'd seen an early version of it and was looking forward to seeing a finished version, as opposed to 3.5 which he actively disliked. Apparently he saw a lot of elements that he thought brought it back past 3rd and 2nd to 1st, and he was interested to see if this edition could get it right.
And, with some fairly subjective data, I think he might have liked it. I know a few 1e holdouts, who didn't upgrade to 2nd, read 3rd when it came out and hated that too. But they saw 4th and, with the exception of one guy who is just stubborn, every grey-haired 1e holdout I know has switched to 4e, and have commented how easy it was to convert their campaign, and how they find the combat runs smoother, etc, etc. One of the things they mentioned (and something that Gary Gygax has said in interview is what he feels differentiated D&D from other RPGs) is that it reigned in the class/multiclass/PrC craziness of 3rd ed and brought it back to defined class roles like in 1e. One guy I know in person, not online, has a group of four, and all of them jokingly call it 1.5 D&D.
So, it's not an objective study, but that's some fairly substantial evidence that Gary Gygax might have actually liked 4e.
I am sure he woudl hated killing the vancian system since that was his, and I do know he did like hackmaster
WRONG if gary saw he most likely would cry out about what they did to his game.
I'm sure he would cry seeing this game being taken back to its roots of being a tactical miniatures game that he himself based off the original chainmail.
Wrong I am sad I might have to wait for a proper editon of the game which wont most likely ever happen
Dreadfully curious what, to you, is a "proper" edition of the game.