Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Krika Jan 09, 2010 7:39:32	Hi. I'm going to purchase SoAC (useful acronym) and I wondered if there were any good advice from the community in terms of how to run it well, any possible pit-falls, as well as where things could get too easy or too hard. This would also include any reading information necessary to DM it well. Also, any good adventures to bridge this one and Heart of the Forbidden Forge? Thanks in advance to everyone.
#2 Madfox11 Jan 10, 2010 10:52:33	In the adventure there is the possibility of a ritual fight between a group of Dhakaani goblins and the PCs. As written the adventure requires the PCs to succeed or else they are not able to befriend the goblins. It also is run as a straight normal combat. My DM just made it one part of the skill challenge, and through secondary skills making the "Six Kings" give us hidden clues on what was to come or about the goblins in the opposing group (besides the skill giving a smple +2 bonus, it also gave a mysterious clue). It made it a more fun scene. He still did run it as a straight fight, and the only reason that worked was because most fights lasted longer then 2 rounds and we decided to let each PC give a try. Strictly speaking it would have been better for my fighter to do all the fights since he could not loose (reaping strike for the win). Also, one of the fights took over 9 rounds and it became incredibly boring by the end of the 2nd. My advice: do NOT run the ritual combat as a normal fight. Make a skill challenge out of it, and add the Six King advice part. It gave it a much more ritualistic feel.
#3 Magicstar1 Jan 10, 2010 12:39:38	As the DM of the above poster I agree with him. The module is great plotwise and has some good combats in it but it can definitely use some work. I don't have anything to add about the first part since I didn't run that one. But here goes: - The skill DCs are generally very low in the adventure. Wizards is still not sure about how to deal with them, I suggest adding at least 5 to all of them.  - The first wilderness travel SC only works by not giving the PCs an extended rest in between, do watch since a number of combats follow that and things might get rough for your PCs. - The ritual with the goblins as mentioned above - The whole ordeal under six kings could use some more flavour, I added a sort of maddening whispers skill challenge during the whole exploration and made the last combat more drawn out. - The roleplay part in Graywall is where the adventure really shines, use information from the insider article by Keith Baker and make it really RP focussed. Also work on the SC here, lot more potential then the adventure uses. There is not much more coming into my mind but hope this helps you a bit.
#4 Madfox11 Jan 12, 2010 3:45:06	In regards to the insanity skill challenge, the new book The Plane Below* contain an excellent example of such a challenge including how to acquire actual permanent insanities such as paranoia, attacks of hysteria and the like (they can be removed with the Remove Affliction ritual). While the challenge supposedly represents PCs battling the maddening effects of some parts of the Abyss, it fits dealing with the effects of the Seals perfectly. I concur with my DM that adding that challenge added greatly to the mood of the dungeon below the Six Kings. * Besides this skill challenge it also includes some superb terrain which woudl work well when designing encounters in manifestion zones.
#5 grandpa Jan 12, 2010 15:12:14	I also agree that the dungeon under Six Kings needs some variety. I believe two or three of the encounters have accompanying illustrations, but otherwise the dungeon is kind of a grind. There is one encounter with some goblins deep inside (Encounter 21: Lost Clan), and the adventure suggests that the goblins will flee if their leader is killed (if I remember correctly.) I replaced the entire encounter with a social skill challenge, with the penalty for failure beind the fight as printed. My PCs seemed to enjoy it (they succeeded), and I was able to slip in some Dhakaani history too. But even if you don't replace that particular encounter with that particular skill challenge, at least do something to relieve the grind beneath Six Kings. Another problem (IMHO) is Encounter 27: Sky Robbery. This fight will likely take place right after your PCs hit Lvl. 5 (if they've been levelling at the module's pace.) However, the monster is a Lvl. 4 Solo Blue Dragon. When I ran SoAC, my PCs blew right through this poor sap. Since the fight is (probably) one level below the PCs as well as between extended rests, it is probably going to be pretty easy for your PCs. Of course an easy encounter every now and then is good for a campaign's pace, and this encoutner is probably supposed to be very fun instead of terrifying. However, I'd recomend at least levelling this guy up one or two levels. Give the poor guy a fighting chance, maybe nerf another encounter to give your PCs their "easy" fix. Try as much as you can to attach certain NPCs to your players on an emotional level. Gydd Nephret is a good candidate (as the resident damsel in distress.) Yeraa and the other Wordbearers are also good for establishing an emotional link with the PCs, which of course requires the PCs to win/not have to go through the "ritual fight." The module starts with the PCs clearing Kruthiks out of a Dhakaani tomb. I suggest that you try and play up the "Dhakaani" element, because that will set the tone for the adventure. My PCs kind of blew over the whole "this is a goblin tomb" thing, and as such the dungeon felt disconnected with the adventure as a whole. So yeah, I'd recomend playing up goblinoid element of the dugneon (both the remains of the Wordbearers as well as Ashurta's personality.) I hope that all makes sense, I did enjoy running this module and hope you can do so even better!
#6 Madfox11 Jan 13, 2010 4:07:10	A yes, our DM also turned the encounter with the lost tribe into a skill challenge. He had the leader being corrupted by the local aberrations, and once we killed him we managed to convince the rest of our good intentions. It was indeed fun to talk with these ancient guardians of the place and their somewhat twisted ideas on Dhakaani history. Note that the encounter with the dragon makes little sense in Eberron, and my DM removed it. What young dragons in Eberron randomly attack skyships? I know there are "wild" dragons, but it still would have felt wrong.
#7 fedorapirate Jan 13, 2010 7:22:25	I just started running Seekers for my players, so far they're still in Ashurta's Tomb and it's going fairly well so far. I actualy made a sixth part of the Crown (I've got 6 players) which I gave as loot after my level 1 quest and used as the main plot hook to Seekers which worked very well as it was they who actually sought out this ancient goblin tomb. My biggest mistake was I dropped the other hooks as well, when I should have let them find it on their own.   I am however interested in these two skill challenges you guys have made (the ritual combat, and the lost goblin tribe) How did you structure them?
#8 Magicstar1 Jan 13, 2010 16:32:15	The SC beneath the mountain was actually quite simple. I picked certain encounters and points in the exploration where I asked for a Endurance check. People who made it stayed at the same easy DC, people who failed it would lose a healing surge while blood flowed from their ears and eyes. Depeding on the number of failures those PCs had a drawback at the final combat, dazed in the first round, a -2 to hit (save ends). I flavored it with maddening whispers wailing and tied it to certain leaderlike monsters in encounters. I also reflavored some encounters with more terrain and I added a hidden shrine the players resanctified gaining them an automatic succes against the whispers. The ritual combat was not my best forte and doing it again I would go with a modified skill challenge system. Focussing on the more physical skills or the more esoteric depending on the party members. There is a lot of mysticism hanging around Six Kings so you could use that to your advantage. My PCs met the six kings or some modern representation of those who gave them hints about what to come after they had proven their worth and ideals. I would go with some dream like test in which PCs could use both skills and powers. Be sure to make them feel memorable and not make it about proving themselves to the goblins. I also shuffled around a bit with encounters before and after to make things more logical for my PCs. If you need any more specifics just post your ideas here and I might be able to help.
#9 fedorapirate Jan 13, 2010 16:53:19	For the ritual combat I really have no idea, my initial plan was to run it as written; 1v1 combat as I thought my players would appreciate such a change in pace (as well as enjoy finding ways to cheat and help their friend in battle). But the more I think about it the more I realise how boring that will be for everyone not fighting at that time as well as quickly grow to be uninteresting for the combatant. So far all I can think of to replace it (because I do want something there) is a basic skill challenge with Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Arcana, History, Diplomacy and Bluff as the key skills, and while that would work well enough I doubt it would feel in anyway interesting or important. Perhaps a hallucination dream sequence induced by some form of smoke or whatever where my 6 PCs have to do battle with the six kings or the six warlords who held the pieces of the crown (clearly very stolen from your idea), in this cool dream like environment; which is kinda changing and blurred. I actually really like that idea, I'd just have to build up some rules for the dream because I want it to feel very different.
#10 Krika Jan 31, 2010 11:00:26	Been awhile, but I just wanted to thank everybody for the advice.
#11 Magicstar1 Jan 31, 2010 15:13:28	Please do tell how it panned out for your group. Happy to help out and good luck running it!
#12 Krika Feb 01, 2010 7:09:28	I'm not sure when exactly I will run it, it might wait until the summer, but I probably will post an ongoing "diary" for the communities pleasure.
#13 pgmason Feb 06, 2010 12:48:16	I've just finished Ashurta's Tomb in my game, and I'm looking forward to the Six Kings section now. I must say I love the idea of the ritual combat involving the PC's fighting the spirits of the bearers of the Ashen Crown, or the Six Kings, not necessarily the Hobgoblins themselves.  I'd probably use the former as I have 5 players. I might actually use a sort of 'mirror party' idea, where each of the opponents has some of the characteristics of one of the PCs. Thanks for the ideas.
#14 hellgrammite00 Feb 07, 2010 7:40:06	The campaign I was in just finished it. Looking back, this is a fairly standard quest.  It has alot of interesting pieces in it, but doesnt always play out as good as it sounds. I would suggest if you run it you look at some of the encounters.  Alot of the fights in it are fairly Vanilla, and dont involve alot of thinking.  As mentioned above you can get into a bit of a grind going room after room smashing undead and such. The dragon encounter above I totally agree with.  My party consisted of 6 people, and we went through that level 4 dragon in under 2 rounds! If you use the dragon, I would suggest bumping it up at least 2 levels to make it an interesting fight.
#15 Vestras May 31, 2011 11:46:35	Zombie bumping this thread (as it's been useful thus far!) I'm gearing up to start Ashen Crown this week or next, and this is my first full module I will be DMing after Red Box (which I reflavored to feel more like Eberron), but I have discovered how woefully sad the included map is. I was expecting at the very least for it to cover the floor puzzle in the Tomb, but no such luck.  My artistic skills are not up to doing some the adventure justice, and I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions on closing the map-gap without purchasing a mountain of tiles. Any similar maps I could use, or perhaps a way to scan the mini-maps from my book to make a full 1 inch scale version?
#16 night_falcon_02 Jun 02, 2011 12:14:26	I'll join in on the zombification of this thread. I'm going to be starting this adventure this weekend.  I've sort of run through it before in a game I play in.  I say sort of as after being run through it and getting ready to run it I now realize exactly how far off the rails we went.  As in the end we rebuilt the crown and then started a bidding war between the Kech Volar, the Library of Koranberg and the Sisters from Droaam.  The 1v1 fight was something that was pretty well left alone as we did the ritual combat.  It needs to be understood that we are playing an incredibly agressive party, at the time of this module we had 2 minotuars from Droaam and 2 goblin from Darguun, we seldom negotiate and anytime a fight is "offered" we take it.  It worked out well but with the builds we had only 1 of the fights went past the 2nd round. I'm thinking I'll be turning it into a modified skill challenge where they each face their opposite, I"m thinking mirrorverse style doubles as well as doing something interesting with the terrain to add a touch of 'spirituality' to the entire ordeal. I"m also debating on the dragon encounter and considering moving it around some so that he is after the crown itself, otherwise it simply doesn't fit Eberron at all.
#17 darkwarlock Jun 04, 2011 14:50:59	I too am interested in with what, if anything, people replaced the blue dragon encounter, which seems incongruous for Eberronian dragons. There are precious few non-dragon solo monsters in 4E. I would love to maintain the nature of the encounter (powerful flying monster) but am stymied to find something of a similar power level to the official encounter with the blue dragon. Thanks for any suggestions!
#18 skeptical_clown Jun 06, 2011 18:29:49	I ran this adventure pretty successfully over the last six months or so.  I did some pretty hefty chopping of early portions of the adventure though--no kruthiks, cut about half the encounters from each dungeon. I used the Large Blue Dragon (CR 6) from the Monster Vault in place of the one that it in the written adventure.  It's very similar but much punchier, and it ended up being a fun fight.  I don't have an issue with the dragon's place in Eberron--from what I recall, most dragons in Khorvaire are criminals or outcasts from Argonessan society.  The main issue is that the fight doesn't really tie into the greater story.  I think this was nicely countered by two things though.  For one, it gives the party a way to recover from the beating they took immediately before that.  And for another it's a dragon fight.  Dragon fights are awesome--it's right there in the title of the game.
#19 robohobbit Jun 17, 2011 14:57:57	I just finished SoAC with my group last weekend, and I think it was a blast.  It was my first time DMing, so there were some bumps along the way.  Story-wise, I thought it was great.  There were lots of tie-ins to other aspects of Eberron that easily lead themselves to a larger adventure.  Sharn, Darguun, Droaam, the Emerald Claw, Kyber, aberrant monsters; it's going to be fun finishing the story that started with this module.  Actually, I started with the short adventure in the ECG so the Mourning is tied in to the story too. Nearly all of the players in my group are fairly experienced and didn't have many problems with the combat.  They were able to finish all bouts of the ritual combat fairly quickly.  The two boss fights in Ashurta's tomb nearly wiped out the party though. Definitely come up with a side-quest for the characters in Graywall.  It's a great location that's very dangerous for the players at that level.  The "Backdrop: Graywall" Dungeon article has a lot of wonderful details for DDI subscribers.  There's nothing like having the players perform a quest for a (possibly not completely evil) mind flayer. In an unexpected turn of events, Govaan (one of the wordbearer goblins) finished the quest with the players.  He's become kind of a side-kick character at this point and is very interested in getting revenge for what happened to his friends. My advise: add your own touches to the encounters printed in the material.  I like the idea of insanity attacking the party under Six Kings.  The dungeons can be a little dry if you don't add details or story-related flavor to them.
#20 kare Jun 18, 2011 5:10:45	I just finished SoAC with my group last weekend, and I think it was a blast.  It was my first time DMing, so there were some bumps along the way.  Story-wise, I thought it was great.  There were lots of tie-ins to other aspects of Eberron that easily lead themselves to a larger adventure.  Sharn, Darguun, Droaam, the Emerald Claw, Kyber, aberrant monsters; it's going to be fun finishing the story that started with this module.  Actually, I started with the short adventure in the ECG so the Mourning is tied in to the story too. Good to know, since I'm just starting out in the same position, having completed the first two encounters of 'Mark of Prophecy' with my group (although I had DM'd a few 3.5 ed sessions as well, that was some years ago at university and with different people). What story-elements were you thinking to pursue? Definitely come up with a side-quest for the characters in Graywall.  It's a great location that's very dangerous for the players at that level.  The "Backdrop: Graywall" Dungeon article has a lot of wonderful details for DDI subscribers.  There's nothing like having the players perform a quest for a (possibly not completely evil) mind flayer. Do you have some thoughts or recommendations? In an unexpected turn of events, Govaan (one of the wordbearer goblins) finished the quest with the players.  He's become kind of a side-kick character at this point and is very interested in getting revenge for what happened to his friends. How in the heck did he avoid getting zombiefied beneath the Roar? My advise: add your own touches to the encounters printed in the material.  I like the idea of insanity attacking the party under Six Kings.  The dungeons can be a little dry if you don't add details or story-related flavor to them. I'm definately intending to do the insanity under Six Kings, and to make the encounter with the deep goblins more of a negotiation-skill challenge. At present, I don't have a solid idea for something similar for the first 'dungeon crawl' into the tomb, so I'm going to have to give that some thought, although I'm certainly open to suggestions. One of my players is a naturalistic ranger, so perhaps some option in the direction of 'saving' (by relocation?) the poor Kruthik's; or another is a Warforged, so perhaps some connection to the Foundry's poor treatment of them (a group of runaways hiding out in the tomb?). Yours, JMH
#21 robohobbit Jun 18, 2011 14:21:15	What story-elements were you thinking to pursue? The Daelkyr and the Dhakaani goblins are big elements in my campaign.  One of my players wanted to play a Warforged Star Pact Warlock/Warlord (ha!) with the background of being discovered in an ancient tomb.  Another player wanted to be a goblin assassin and didn't have any particular background in mind.  I tied both of these together by making the goblin one of the Dhakaani Silent Folk who discovered the unconsious ancient warforged in an old Dhakaani tomb. When the players went to Droaam I had Xorchlyc (the mind-flayer mayor of Graywall) arrest the players for digging a hole in the market square and conspiring to steal ancient treasures from the city.  As punishment, the adventurers had to journey far beneath Graywall to the ancient Daelkyr stronghold and retrieve a suitable replacement treasure for the one that was taken.  During this side-quest the players discovered that the warforged character was a soldier built by the Daelkyr during the Daelkyr war to fight against the goblins. How in the heck did he avoid getting zombiefied beneath the Roar? The players were very suspicious of a trap being laid by the Emerald Claw in Graywall, so they sent Govaan and the goblin assassin player (since he was absent that week) on a hunt though the city streets for Demise while the rest of the wordbearers went down into the tunnel.  Govaan met up with the party right after his undead companions emerged from the tunnel and attacked the players.  He had to back-stab a few of his former friends, which I imagine was horribly  traumatic for him.  He swore a death oath against the one who betrayed him since that seemed like the kind of thing that a goblin obsessed with hero stories would do. I'm definately intending to do the insanity under Six Kings, and to make the encounter with the deep goblins more of a negotiation-skill challenge. At present, I don't have a solid idea for something similar for the first 'dungeon crawl' into the tomb, so I'm going to have to give that some thought, although I'm certainly open to suggestions. One of my players is a naturalistic ranger, so perhaps some option in the direction of 'saving' (by relocation?) the poor Kruthik's; or another is a Warforged, so perhaps some connection to the Foundry's poor treatment of them (a group of runaways hiding out in the tomb?). My party ended up saving all the Kruthik eggs.  They gave some to the professor at Morgrave, but kept the rest in their apartment in Sharn.  I think they want to train them as guard-beasts.  Ashurta's tomb is a pretty good dungeon.  I just added some details like carvings on the wall detailing the heroic deeds of Ashurta.
#22 kare Jun 18, 2011 15:03:34	And I thought my players were weird. Kruthik eggs in the apartment - priceless comedy gold. Sounds like it's a great group you're running. Yours, JMH
#23 AvonRekaes Jun 23, 2011 13:20:35	For those with purely story-related concerns for the blue dragon airship fight, I agree with you 100%. It doesn't really fit for Eberron. I have two suggestions. Change the appearance of the dragon fight to after the crown is united, or when the party has mor pieces of it, with the Dragon seeking the combined artifact for some greater purpose. The Dragon offers the PCs a chance to hand it over, so they actually get to parlay with it and it acts as an intelligent being rather than some random flying encounter. Two, re-skin the dragon as something else. Maybe an ogre mage riding a griffin, guarding the skys of Droaam. Or an errant storm-elemental that attacks all airships on sight cause it use to be bound to one. Don't bother changing the statistics (unless you want to up it in level like suggested above), just reflavor it's attacks. Bites and claws just become sheering wind blows and slams, etc.