A melee/ defensive build is different for an artificer (as it appeared in the playtest), but there's nothing wrong with being tough as nails. I do wonder how a robotic arm protects against death, fire and poison, though... It's not like your blood is replaced with motor oil...
From a CharOp perspective the following jump out at me:
-Small characters get weapons on par with rapiers. +3 proficiency, one-handed 1d8 weapons are rare for halflings and gnomes.
-Components mean heavy shields as light shields.
-Seems like an interesting paragon path for defenders to MC into. Especially small defenders. Non WF barbarians may consider it, too.
Overall AWESOME flavour but I wonder if the mechanics aren't a little too distant from the role of an artificer as a leader. It seems a bit like a cheap way to get Warforged benefits to a class with different abilities bonuses (hello Dwarf Defender Self-Forged). Really can't complain, though. One of my players will be rolling a gnome self-forged artificer for our next campaign.
I do wonder how a robotic arm protects against death, fire and poison, though... It's not like your blood is replaced with motor oil...
The Self-Forged self-improvement doesn't end with the battlefist, that's just the beginning. Look at the name of the ability "More Metal than Flesh". A Self-Forged has been routinely replacing parts of himself with sturdier construction and construct parts. He might indeed actually replace his blood with the same alchemical admixture that courses through a Warforged's body.
My player is wanting to replace his entire body except his heart and brain. Seems like a cool concept.
True enough. I guess I can't get the awesome dwarf picture out of my head.
My player is wanting to replace his entire body except his heart and brain. Seems like a cool concept.
Funny, I was thinking of the artificer inserting a clockwork heart to pump this new alchemical blood.
It looks awesome. Not only does it give you a great weapon but some pretty cool flavor for your character. I certainly would take it if I was an artificer. However, I'm not really one for the artificer class so I was a bit disappointed when I saw one of the prerequisites was "must be an artificer." It kind of takes away from the possibility of a veteran of the lat war who lost an arm and then decided to replace it with a Warfoged arm.
In the ways of fluff it doesn't really give you that much. I can imagine artificers loosing limbs in the war and then medics forcing them into this. Perhaps that's even how it developed.
On the note of replacing everything except your brain and heart, Why not be a Warforged in the first place. I can see replacing your own heart with a clockwork one as more possible. However, it would be cool for someone to find a Cryan noble who is still alive but about to die and they put his brain into a Warforged body.
It looks awesome. Not only does it give you a great weapon but some pretty cool flavor for your character. I certainly would take it if I was an artificer. However, I'm not really one for the artificer class so I was a bit disappointed when I saw one of the prerequisites was "must be an artificer." It kind of takes away from the possibility of a veteran of the lat war who lost an arm and then decided to replace it with a Warfoged arm.
In the ways of fluff it doesn't really give you that much. I can imagine artificers loosing limbs in the war and then medics forcing them into this. Perhaps that's even how it developed.
I get the impression it's sort of the opposite, actually - no medic would recommend it, and it's such a strange, complex, intensive, and personalized process that you pretty much have to go mad and study how to do it yourself. The last war veteran who lost an arm and decided to replace it with a 'forged arm? He can still exist, he just has an extra "mad scientist" bent because he began fervently teaching himself to be an artificer.
Also, remember that you can qualify for paragon paths by multiclassing. It's not an optimal solution for, say, fighters, due to the Intelligence attack stat, but you could certainly build a character to pull it off.
So, correct me if I'm mistaken.. once a self-forged hits 16th level, it cannot be killed except by continuing to do HP damage down to the bloodied value, because you'll never ever fail a death save (unless you run into one with an inherent negative modifier)?
Correct. Warforged characters are like this from the start.
It looks awesome. Not only does it give you a great weapon but some pretty cool flavor for your character. I certainly would take it if I was an artificer. However, I'm not really one for the artificer class so I was a bit disappointed when I saw one of the prerequisites was "must be an artificer." It kind of takes away from the possibility of a veteran of the lat war who lost an arm and then decided to replace it with a Warfoged arm..
I could see some classes MC-ing into Artificier and doing pretty well with this. A Taclord and Valorous Bard (w/the right feats) , or Swordmage could dovetail pretty nicely with this. Even a Rogue might get some mileage out this path (rattling, indeed!).
Or, you could MC into Artificier as a Shaman and create a very, very mixed-up character. ;)
Also, remember that you can qualify for paragon paths by multiclassing. It's not an optimal solution for, say, fighters, due to the Intelligence attack stat, but you could certainly build a character to pull it off.
It's the same situation as when a fighter multiclasses to wizard. A race with an intelligence bonus would have it easier of course. Some time ago I was considering a tiefling fighter-the self-forged would be a good choice for his PP. Ambiguous already mentioned the advantages for gnomes(one of the races that tend to experiment a lot ).
Funny, I was thinking of the artificer inserting a clockwork heart to pump this new alchemical blood.
Like Kroenen from Hellboy, who became a clockwork assassin. All he had for blood was sand, which boggled my mind. Maybe they were nanites? Idk, lol.
I think an alchemical substance with nanites would make excellent faux-blood for self forged. 4E Borg!!! :evillaugh
I'm pretty sure the Dust-Stuffed template was specifically created due to Kroenen in the Hellboy movie.
It'd be cool to make up some 4e monsters that are Dust-Stuffed.... hmmm...
Actually, Kroenen is best represented by the Dust-Stuffed template from the Explorer's Handbook chapter about Ashtalaka, the City of Demons.
I'm pretty sure the Dust-Stuffed template was specifically created due to Kroenen in the Hellboy movie.
It'd be cool to make up some 4e monsters that are Dust-Stuffed.... hmmm...
Well, Kroenen was a masochist who sought perfection through replacing flesh with mechanical parts, like his clockwork heart, etc. He is likely a self-forged with the dust-stuffed template added on. :D
They are (mostly) organic constructs... not flippin robots.
Sorry, pet peeve.
They can even wind themselves up to cause a haste effect!
In regards to the Last War Vet with the Forged Arm...I don't see why Self-Forged would be considered the only way to get Warforged components. It'd be fairly easy to have a Magical Item that accomplishes the need for a Character with prosthetic limbs. Maybe not even necessary depending on what kind of DM you have.
Would those be golimbs?
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Pun shamelessly stolen from one of the GURPS Magic Items discussions about prosthetic golem limbs
Would those be golimbs?
Only if you think that a Warforged is a Golem. Dare you to tell one that to it's face. ;)
I kinda see Warforged Prosthetic limbs to be similar to the Robotic parts that they use in Full Metal Alchemist.
In regards to the Last War Vet with the Forged Arm...I don't see why Self-Forged would be considered the only way to get Warforged components. It'd be fairly easy to have a Magical Item that accomplishes the need for a Character with prosthetic limbs. Maybe not even necessary depending on what kind of DM you have.
True. The problem with this is that it makes the players not take the PP just because they want to have a cool prosthetic and they can get this through a magic item. Not that wouldn't be a bad thing it's just kind of a cheat. I think I would just stick to paragon multiclassing on this. Unfortunately it wouldn't really work with a ranger. *sigh*
Nice overall, looks fairly interesting.
It's interesting to see another "natural" weapon being a 1d8, +3 proficiency weapon that can be enchanted (and at least it gets a weapon group of mace).
But why can't my &^$%ing gnoll rogue gladiator do it to his claws?
But why can't my &^$%ing gnoll rogue gladiator do it to his claws?
Personally if I was your DM I would allow you to do so.
I'd also make it a +3 prof weapon, 1d8 damage and make it so it counted as a light blade.
But that's just me and I'm basing that on the fact these rules exist these days.
Personally if I was your DM I would allow you to do so.
Unfortunately I'm playing LFR so while a DM might want to let me, he really can't.
I'm just griping because I'm sure WotC doesn't actually have a problem with giving my gnoll enchantable claws now. Its just forgotten about him ;)
Unfortunately I'm playing LFR so while a DM might want to let me, he really can't.
I'm just griping because I'm sure WotC doesn't actually have a problem with giving my gnoll enchantable claws now. Its just forgotten about him ;)
It would be nice if WotC would make gnoll claws enchantable - especially since they said you can effectively enchant your entire body with unarmed strike now.
True. The problem with this is that it makes the players not take the PP just because they want to have a cool prosthetic and they can get this through a magic item. Not that wouldn't be a bad thing it's just kind of a cheat. I think I would just stick to paragon multiclassing on this. Unfortunately it wouldn't really work with a ranger. *sigh*
Well, I really see the PP as being only for those who are playing characters who want to embody the warforged ideal. I think it's rather unnecessary to force players into the PP just to get the robotic arm, especially as it does Other things to you.
I'd be ok letting the players take a level 4 or so magic item that allows them to use Warforged components on the replaced arm, or something like that...
Actually...I had an idea for a story in which several Warforged went missing just as a fashion trend of "Forge-Punk" started to affect the mid-spires of Sharn...people were willingly replacing their limbs with Warforged components ala Shadowrun/Cyberpunk...
To have a graft say a warforged's arm, you first need a warforged's arm... you know, from a freaking warforged.
Well here's the thing, if I remember grafts under 3.5 required you to procure the graft from a living creature. You weren't just making a warforged arm to plug in, because WARFORGED DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! Worforged to not have plug and play limbs, they can plug a sword over thier arm, but not take off their arm and throw on another.
To have a graft say a warforged's arm, you first need a warforged's arm... you know, from a freaking warforged.
Exactly! :D