Shifters and 4e... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shifters and 4e...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Cyber-Dave
Jun 18, 2008 1:40:55 Ok, I am a little bothered by the 4e MM Shifters. Its not that I don't think the mechanics work well, its that I don't feel that the names "longtooth" or "razorclaw" fit. What made the razorclaw a razorclaw was its claws. Likewise, what made the longtooth a longtooth was its teeth. The razorclaw as written is more like a beasthide/longstride mix, and the longtooth is more like a... well, while it certainly feels like a shifter, its not really like any 3.5 shifter varient (and certainly not the longtooth). Its more like wolverine to be honest!

Anybody have some thoughts on 4e shifter incarnations that might put me at ease with the names given to them, or should I just not make a bit deal out of the names? After all... they do still feel very much like the spirit of "shifters" as a whole (if not so much the spirit of longtooh or razorclaw shifters).
#2
Marcus_Majarra
Jun 19, 2008 17:58:04 Perhaps we can expect racial shifter feats to change this perspective?
#3
nephallim
Jun 19, 2008 18:33:58 The mechanics seem to fit 4E, as is.

No playable race as an at-will natural attack (aside from their unarmed).

We might see this fixed with a feat... or if you really want a tooth-and-claw shifter, you might have to wait for the 4E druid.
#4
ieattrollsforbreakfast
Jun 19, 2008 18:42:21 I have to agree with Cyber-Dave. I mechanics for shifting are great, they look fun to play, but the abilities are oddly named.
I think Marcus may have hit the nail on the head, though. The names might be as they are because the racial feats tie into those themes more closely.
#5
fodigg
Jun 25, 2008 16:47:18 I prefer the new mechanics honestly. Claw and bite attacks could certainly be added back in though.
#6
nymrohd
Jun 26, 2008 10:42:36 Or you could have multi-class like feats that allow you to replace one of your at-wills (or even add a third at will, which really is not that gamebreaking). And the current shifters may as well be placeholders compared to what we may get in a future dragon article and the EPG.
#7
merrikcale
Jun 26, 2008 15:42:59 well, the cover of the second Players Handbook shows a goliath and what some believe is a shifter, so you might get more in March
#8
Cyber-Dave
Jun 26, 2008 16:32:25 Where do I click to see this picture?
#9
merrikcale
Jun 26, 2008 16:59:15
Where do I click to see this picture?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164
#10
bholdr_mage
Jun 29, 2008 18:06:58 Nah, that looks like a druid with fake horns like in 3.5.
#11
salla
Jun 29, 2008 22:48:23
Nah, that looks like a druid with fake horns like in 3.5.

I agree.

(I was really hoping druids would stay gone. Ah well, that's what the DM banhammer is for.)
#12
nymrohd
Jun 30, 2008 14:30:59 Maybe this time druids will not end up being completely and utterly overpowered;)

If shifters get natural weapons, I very much hope they get permanent natural weapons and not the kind they can only use while shifting. Otherwise they are pretty useless mechanically.
#13
igotsmeakabob
Jun 30, 2008 14:48:59 Nymrohd, druids HAD to be overpowered. How else were the Gatekeepers going to beat back the forces of Khyber and keep them there? Goblins? Hah!

If 4th edition druids start tending the seals, I'm sure Khorvaire will be in trouble soon.
#14
Cyber-Dave
Jul 01, 2008 13:00:47
Nymrohd, druids HAD to be overpowered. How else were the Gatekeepers going to beat back the forces of Khyber and keep them there? Goblins? Hah!

If 4th edition druids start tending the seals, I'm sure Khorvaire will be in trouble soon.

I really hope you are being sarcastic. Because, if you are actually anti 4e, and actually taking issue with the idea of a balanced game based on the above logic, my brain just exploded due to the nexus of ridiculousness you just created.
#15
igotsmeakabob
Jul 01, 2008 14:59:55 Yes, it was sarcasm , I'm happy to have potentially destroyed a section of your brain.
#16
merrikcale
Jul 01, 2008 15:28:11
Maybe this time druids will not end up being completely and utterly overpowered;)

It appears that druids will be less focused on spell casting and more of a shapeshifter character. The nature priest type will be the Shaman

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyber-Dave Jun 18, 2008 1:40:55	Ok, I am a little bothered by the 4e MM Shifters. Its not that I don't think the mechanics work well, its that I don't feel that the names "longtooth" or "razorclaw" fit. What made the razorclaw a razorclaw was its claws. Likewise, what made the longtooth a longtooth was its teeth. The razorclaw as written is more like a beasthide/longstride mix, and the longtooth is more like a... well, while it certainly feels like a shifter, its not really like any 3.5 shifter varient (and certainly not the longtooth). Its more like wolverine to be honest! Anybody have some thoughts on 4e shifter incarnations that might put me at ease with the names given to them, or should I just not make a bit deal out of the names? After all... they do still feel very much like the spirit of "shifters" as a whole (if not so much the spirit of longtooh or razorclaw shifters).
#2 Marcus_Majarra Jun 19, 2008 17:58:04	Perhaps we can expect racial shifter feats to change this perspective?
#3 nephallim Jun 19, 2008 18:33:58	The mechanics seem to fit 4E, as is. No playable race as an at-will natural attack (aside from their unarmed). We might see this fixed with a feat... or if you really want a tooth-and-claw shifter, you might have to wait for the 4E druid.
#4 ieattrollsforbreakfast Jun 19, 2008 18:42:21	I have to agree with Cyber-Dave. I mechanics for shifting are great, they look fun to play, but the abilities are oddly named. I think Marcus may have hit the nail on the head, though. The names might be as they are because the racial feats tie into those themes more closely.
#5 fodigg Jun 25, 2008 16:47:18	I prefer the new mechanics honestly. Claw and bite attacks could certainly be added back in though.
#6 nymrohd Jun 26, 2008 10:42:36	Or you could have multi-class like feats that allow you to replace one of your at-wills (or even add a third at will, which really is not that gamebreaking). And the current shifters may as well be placeholders compared to what we may get in a future dragon article and the EPG.
#7 merrikcale Jun 26, 2008 15:42:59	well, the cover of the second Players Handbook shows a goliath and what some believe is a shifter, so you might get more in March
#8 Cyber-Dave Jun 26, 2008 16:32:25	Where do I click to see this picture?
#9 merrikcale Jun 26, 2008 16:59:15	Where do I click to see this picture? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164
#10 bholdr_mage Jun 29, 2008 18:06:58	Nah, that looks like a druid with fake horns like in 3.5.
#11 salla Jun 29, 2008 22:48:23	Nah, that looks like a druid with fake horns like in 3.5. I agree. (I was really hoping druids would stay gone. Ah well, that's what the DM banhammer is for.)
#12 nymrohd Jun 30, 2008 14:30:59	Maybe this time druids will not end up being completely and utterly overpowered;) If shifters get natural weapons, I very much hope they get permanent natural weapons and not the kind they can only use while shifting. Otherwise they are pretty useless mechanically.
#13 igotsmeakabob Jun 30, 2008 14:48:59	Nymrohd, druids HAD to be overpowered. How else were the Gatekeepers going to beat back the forces of Khyber and keep them there? Goblins? Hah! If 4th edition druids start tending the seals, I'm sure Khorvaire will be in trouble soon.
#14 Cyber-Dave Jul 01, 2008 13:00:47	Nymrohd, druids HAD to be overpowered. How else were the Gatekeepers going to beat back the forces of Khyber and keep them there? Goblins? Hah! If 4th edition druids start tending the seals, I'm sure Khorvaire will be in trouble soon. I really hope you are being sarcastic. Because, if you are actually anti 4e, and actually taking issue with the idea of a balanced game based on the above logic, my brain just exploded due to the nexus of ridiculousness you just created.
#15 igotsmeakabob Jul 01, 2008 14:59:55	Yes, it was sarcasm , I'm happy to have potentially destroyed a section of your brain.
#16 merrikcale Jul 01, 2008 15:28:11	Maybe this time druids will not end up being completely and utterly overpowered;) It appears that druids will be less focused on spell casting and more of a shapeshifter character. The nature priest type will be the Shaman