The thing is that both the Self-Forged’s attacks are described as you infusing your battlefist with magic before using it to do unpleasant things to your foes. However, by RAW you don’t seem to need to use the battlefist at all. The only requirement is that you’re not holding anything in the battlefist rather than that you use it to make the attack.
Did this strike anyone else as odd?
It may be intentional.
Except that the daily talks about firing your fist at the enemy and then you gain reach with it for the encounter. Just seems odd if you make the attack with another weapon, then gain reach with your fist which you didn't use.
Where is this Self-Forged paragon path? I can't find it in D&D Compendium.
Eberon Players Guide, Yesterday's preview
A paragon path for turning yourself into a magical cyborg and you're worried about logic and realism?
This question is fallacious. It's perfectly reasonable to complain that a power's mechanics do not match its flavor text in such an obviously unintended way.
It's perfectly reasonable to complain that a power's mechanics do not match its flavor text in such an obviously unintended way.
It seems perfectly clear that when the power stat block says "Melee: Weapon" the weapon being referred to is the battlefist, not the sword in your other hand. I really doubt that anyone who plays D&D would actually misunderstand that.
Is it really necessary to spell out every little detail to you folks? Even the most obvious garbage? Nothing here needs "fixing".
It seems perfectly clear that when the power stat block says "Melee: Weapon" the weapon being referred to is the battlefist, not the sword in your other hand. I really doubt that anyone who plays D&D would actually misunderstand that.
Is it really necessary to spell out every little detail to you folks? Even the most obvious garbage? Nothing here needs "fixing".
If I say that I use one of my self-forged spells with a weapon other than my battlefist, I'm completely within the rules. No misunderstanding.
I am perfectly aware that this propably wasn't intended. However, it is how it was written.
It seems perfectly clear that when the power stat block says "Melee: Weapon" the weapon being referred to is the battlefist, not the sword in your other hand. I really doubt that anyone who plays D&D would actually misunderstand that.
Is it really necessary to spell out every little detail to you folks? Even the most obvious garbage? Nothing here needs "fixing".
The problem is that the intent is completely clear but that the mechanics don't match it at all, even though the power could extremely easily have been written for the mechanics to match it. Seriously, you see this line of the power?
Requirement: Your battlefist hand must be free.
How easy would it have been to just make that say this instead?
Requirement: You must be wielding your battlefist.
Similar to how Rogue powers are worded. It takes next to no effort to make the power do exactly what it was intended to do instead of something else really weird that's obviously not the idea. That's what perplexes us.
If I say that I use one of my self-forged spells with a weapon other than my battlefist, I'm completely within the rules. No misunderstanding.
I am perfectly aware that this propably wasn't intended. However, it is how it was written.
That is very clear example of a Rules Lawyer.
Everyone who reads this power can understand what it means and how it's supposed to work. Since it accomplishes the goal of explaining how the power is supposed to work, no fix is necessary. I swear, a little common sense goes a long way, folks.
That is very clear example of a Rules Lawyer.
Everyone who reads this power can understand what it means and how it's supposed to work. Since it accomplishes the goal of explaining how the power is supposed to work, no fix is necessary. I swear, a little common sense goes a long way, folks.
You're making the assumption that there are no Rules Lawyers the crop up when you're running any game of D&D anywhere. Perhaps you have no problem with such people, but for those of us who do for one reason or another a clarification on the exact intent of the power would be nice.
Here's an example of how I'd Rules Lawyer this to my advantage.
Dwarven Artificer w/ Dwarven weapon proficiency. Empty Battle Fist and wielding Craghammer. Power says that I just need free battlefist. Attack for 4 times weapon damage with Craghammer at melee 2.
Logical explanation...I use my battle fist in a Spiderman/Batman style fashion to grab a convenient tree / stalactite / passing Dragon Foot then I swing to my enemy, smash his face in with my hammer, then swing back to my origin square.
Only saving grace is that I'm usually the DM.
Since it accomplishes the goal of explaining how the power is supposed to work...
But it doesn't. That's exactly why we're complaining. :P
It's clear how it's intended to work, but it doesn't work that way. It works another, really weird way. And it's completely unnecessary for it to work that way because it would take next to zero effort to make it work that way it's clearly intended.
I swear, a little common sense goes a long way, folks.
That goes both ways though. A little common sense goes a long way if you're the person designing one of these powers. If you want it to work a specific way, then make it work that way.
That goes both ways though. A little common sense goes a long way if you're the person designing one of these powers. If you want it to work a specific way, then make it work that way.
Point. Set. Match. :D
Nha. I can clearly see the battlefist's arcane engine power run trough the self-forged body and infusing his weapon whit magical clockwork might!
It may be intentional.
Warforged aren't clockwork. They're sentient golems with a wooden 'endo skeleton' with fiberous rootlike muscles, with stone and metal plates covering large portions of their exterior. Look at the joints, you can see the fiberous musculature. Warforged are mostly organic.
They have blood, they even have 'organs' (which is why they were still subject to criticals in 3.5, however they are significantly less vital thus the 25% chance to negate it). Wargorged have been stated to have greasy sap-like 'blood', and were subject to blood draining effects like those from sturges, they were even able to have their brains (or something near enough in that armor plated noggin) consumed by mind flayers.
Living constructs, not friggin robots.
Sorry, that's my geeky berserk button. Continue to argue about whether a self-forged battle fist attacks are actually supposed to use the battlefist
But it doesn't. That's exactly why we're complaining. :P
It's clear how it's intended to work
Voila. You agree that the power, as it stands, is clear how it's intended to work.
but it doesn't work that way. It works another, really weird way.
No. It COULD work in another, really weird way. Since the power says "Melee: Weapon" you COULD interpret that to mean it can work with any weapon. However, from context it's clear that they mean "This specific weapon, the one we've been talking about all over the friggin page, yeah, that one right there."
Only someone being willfully obtuse would read it that it could be used with any weapon.
And it's completely unnecessary for it to work that way because it would take next to zero effort to make it work that way it's clearly intended.
It takes less effort than THAT to simply read it the way it was intended. I have no sympathy for rules lawyers.
It takes less effort than THAT to simply read it the way it was intended. I have no sympathy for rules lawyers.
No one cares if you play in an awesome group without rules lawyers. I do play in a group with rules lawyers, sucks but my rules need to be airtight. Sorry boss, not everyone gets to play in a perfect world. Without air-tight rules I get Pun-Pun in my game.
Rules Lawyers exist, some of us must deal with them, we'd rather deal with them by presenting RAW, not by arguing a non quantifiable RAI.
If you want to stick with the flavour of the power and use only your fist, then go ahead. But if you have a better alternative (like a superior weapon) and don't really care much about violating the flavour of the power, then use it.
Granted, this causes some inconsistencies (like how you get to apply reach intended for your fist to your weapon), but hey, that is what reflavouring is for. :D