Sovereign Host Name Change - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Sovereign Host Name Change

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
drwenski
Jun 04, 2008 3:07:18 I enjoy Eberron's take on gods/religion. However, the one problem I keep running into is that my players (and I) often forget the roles/names of the Sovereign Host. The idea that most people worship a pantheon works very well, but when all the other gods/religion are named The Keeper, the Mockery, Silver Flame, the Undying Court, etc. no one can remember the difference between Kol Korran and Dol Dorn or between Balinor or Boldrei.

When my PCs meet a paladin of the Silver Flame, confront a necromancer of the Blood of Vol, or find a shrine to the Devourer, I get appropriate in character reactions. However, when they travel to the Temple of Aureon or talk to a shifter wearing a symbol of Arawai, I get blank stares and "Was Onatar the name of the inn-keeper back in Regalport?" Is the point of the confusing names (two "B" names, two "O" names, and Dol, Dol, and Kol) so that players are more inclined to treat the Host as a whole, ignoring the individual deities? Why don't the eight of the Sovereign Host have easy (and exciting) names like the Dark Six? George R. R. Martin (The Father, The Soldier, The Smith, The Crone, The Mother, The Maiden, the Stranger) and Lois McMaster Bujold (The Mother, The Father, The Son, The Daughter, The Bastard) have good/neutral pantheons that are functional and memorable, if a little unoriginal.

My solution (which could have been done on these boards already) is to change the names of the SH to Dark Sixish style titles. It seems more likely that gods which have several depictions/races and could merely be representations of cosmic forces would have titles instead of personal names. However, I'm having trouble a coming up with the exact titles so far, but if I could I feel it would fix the only flaw in what is otherwise the most interesting "faith system" of any setting.

Here's what I've got so far:

Arawai - Sovereign of Life and Love
The Lifegiver

Aureon - Sovereign of Law and Lore
The Loremaster

Balinor - Sovereign of Horn and Hunt
The Hunter

Boldrei - Sovereign of Hearth and Home
The Hearthwarder
The Protector

Dol Arrah - Sovereign of Sun and Sacrifice
The Crusader
The Defender

Dol Dorn - Sovereign of Strength and Steel
The Warrior
The Champion

Kol Korran - Sovereign of World and Wealth
The Merchant
The Trader

Olladra - Sovereign of Feast and Fortune
The Fatemaker
The Luckbringer

Onatar - Sovereign of Forge and Fire
The Smith
The Forger
The Artificer

These are not nearly as good as the names the Dark Six have...anyone have some better suggestions?
#2
octaviusiii
Jun 04, 2008 3:16:37 Hmm... a shame none of your characters are clerics of the Sovereign Host! I had to memorize them all - what their backgrounds were and the like.

Personally, I like the names as they are, so I'd argue that you should stick with their Sovereign of... titles. That way, it's a shrine to Onatar, Sovereign of Forge and Fire, rather than simply 'Onatar.'

The funny thing is, the Dark Six don't always match themselves. The Mockery is the god of the dark side of war, not a trickster (which would be the Traveller); the Devourer is a god of storms and destruction, not of gluttony (which is more Kol Korran's gig).

If you want Dark Six-style names, I think what you have is pretty good: it gives the players an easy access to the roles of the gods.
#3
starkiller_
Jun 04, 2008 9:43:25 I like your idea, actual names might be more of a cultural issue but using the role as a name becomes more universal. And, as you said, more intuitive. I think it might make PC exclamations a little more flavorful: "The Luckbringer has forsaken me!" will actually make sense to a player who doesn't remember who Olladra is.

Some other name ideas:
Arawai - The Soulmaker (life & love are keys to a soul)
Aureon - The Binder
Balinor - The Marksman, The Stalker, The Provider
Boldrei - The Homemaker (sorry, couldn't resist!), The Embracer
Dol Arrah - The Martyr, The Bloodshield
Dol Dorn - The Berserker, The Bladestorm
#4
starkiller_
Jun 04, 2008 9:50:38 Kol Korran - The Dealer, The Dealmaker, The Monger, The Peddler
#5
drwenski
Jun 04, 2008 14:34:38 I've had clerics of the Sovereign Host, but they've never been able to keep all the gods straight.

I really like "The Soulmaker"!

I think the "The Provider" might actually be the best name for Boldrei.
#6
mystrich
Jun 04, 2008 19:20:23 It's not a whole lot different than memorizing the DnD god names the first time, Hextor and Heironeous both start with H. The Dark Six have real names, but the were lost during the Schism.
#7
schala_zeal
Jun 04, 2008 21:02:31 I think the names come down to the impression that they want to make. The Dark Six want to sound grand and overawe people, while the Sovereign Host is generally more approachable/part of the common life. So I would think that the followers of the Sovereign Host would use the short name (Onatar, for example). But to be impressive, they would probably use a title such as "Sovereign of ". So I think it depends on the context you want.
#8
Hellcow
Jun 04, 2008 21:44:05 The Sovereign Host is exactly the sort of religion where you'd get different titles in different cultures; in some places Aureon is Aureon Lawbringer, in others he is the Lord of Law and Lore, etc. In the game I'm playing in, I'm playing a paladin of the Church of the Wyrm Ascendant, the Sovereign sect mentioned in Stormreach; as such, he refers to all of the Sovereigns by their draconic forms, calling on "the strength of the Silver Sovereign" instead of Dol Dorn, or cursing the name of the Wild Wyrm instead of the Fury.

So nothing wrong with giving them titles.

As for "the point of the confusing names", if you look again, what you have is four pairs of gods and goddesses with similar names - Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah, Onatar and Olladra, Aureon and Arawai, Balinor and Boldrei - which is actually based on the concept of relation between them. The Dols are brother and sister, supposedly (for all that their draconic forms don't seem to match up with this). Kol Korran stands alone, but is said to be related to the Keeper.

the Devourer is a god of storms and destruction, not of gluttony

He's seen as the wild force of nature - the angry ocean that devours the ship, the wildfire that consumes all in its path, the earthquake that swallows the city, and the hurricane that simply shatters and scatters. So it's true, he doesn't literally EAT things - but in many of his aspects (fire, ocean) he does consume them.
#9
drwenski
Jun 05, 2008 16:31:23 Damn! I have to get Stormreach now.

Also, me=owned on the names. It makes since now and while I'd still prefer titled SH gods, I can explain the names to my players. Thanks Keith and good luck on the 4th Ed. conversion stuff!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 drwenski Jun 04, 2008 3:07:18	I enjoy Eberron's take on gods/religion. However, the one problem I keep running into is that my players (and I) often forget the roles/names of the Sovereign Host. The idea that most people worship a pantheon works very well, but when all the other gods/religion are named The Keeper, the Mockery, Silver Flame, the Undying Court, etc. no one can remember the difference between Kol Korran and Dol Dorn or between Balinor or Boldrei. When my PCs meet a paladin of the Silver Flame, confront a necromancer of the Blood of Vol, or find a shrine to the Devourer, I get appropriate in character reactions. However, when they travel to the Temple of Aureon or talk to a shifter wearing a symbol of Arawai, I get blank stares and "Was Onatar the name of the inn-keeper back in Regalport?" Is the point of the confusing names (two "B" names, two "O" names, and Dol, Dol, and Kol) so that players are more inclined to treat the Host as a whole, ignoring the individual deities? Why don't the eight of the Sovereign Host have easy (and exciting) names like the Dark Six? George R. R. Martin (The Father, The Soldier, The Smith, The Crone, The Mother, The Maiden, the Stranger) and Lois McMaster Bujold (The Mother, The Father, The Son, The Daughter, The Bastard) have good/neutral pantheons that are functional and memorable, if a little unoriginal. My solution (which could have been done on these boards already) is to change the names of the SH to Dark Sixish style titles. It seems more likely that gods which have several depictions/races and could merely be representations of cosmic forces would have titles instead of personal names. However, I'm having trouble a coming up with the exact titles so far, but if I could I feel it would fix the only flaw in what is otherwise the most interesting "faith system" of any setting. Here's what I've got so far: Arawai - Sovereign of Life and Love The Lifegiver Aureon - Sovereign of Law and Lore The Loremaster Balinor - Sovereign of Horn and Hunt The Hunter Boldrei - Sovereign of Hearth and Home The Hearthwarder The Protector Dol Arrah - Sovereign of Sun and Sacrifice The Crusader The Defender Dol Dorn - Sovereign of Strength and Steel The Warrior The Champion Kol Korran - Sovereign of World and Wealth The Merchant The Trader Olladra - Sovereign of Feast and Fortune The Fatemaker The Luckbringer Onatar - Sovereign of Forge and Fire The Smith The Forger The Artificer These are not nearly as good as the names the Dark Six have...anyone have some better suggestions?
#2 octaviusiii Jun 04, 2008 3:16:37	Hmm... a shame none of your characters are clerics of the Sovereign Host! I had to memorize them all - what their backgrounds were and the like. Personally, I like the names as they are, so I'd argue that you should stick with their Sovereign of... titles. That way, it's a shrine to Onatar, Sovereign of Forge and Fire, rather than simply 'Onatar.' The funny thing is, the Dark Six don't always match themselves. The Mockery is the god of the dark side of war, not a trickster (which would be the Traveller); the Devourer is a god of storms and destruction, not of gluttony (which is more Kol Korran's gig). If you want Dark Six-style names, I think what you have is pretty good: it gives the players an easy access to the roles of the gods.
#3 starkiller_ Jun 04, 2008 9:43:25	I like your idea, actual names might be more of a cultural issue but using the role as a name becomes more universal. And, as you said, more intuitive. I think it might make PC exclamations a little more flavorful: "The Luckbringer has forsaken me!" will actually make sense to a player who doesn't remember who Olladra is. Some other name ideas: Arawai - The Soulmaker (life & love are keys to a soul) Aureon - The Binder Balinor - The Marksman, The Stalker, The Provider Boldrei - The Homemaker (sorry, couldn't resist!), The Embracer Dol Arrah - The Martyr, The Bloodshield Dol Dorn - The Berserker, The Bladestorm
#4 starkiller_ Jun 04, 2008 9:50:38	Kol Korran - The Dealer, The Dealmaker, The Monger, The Peddler
#5 drwenski Jun 04, 2008 14:34:38	I've had clerics of the Sovereign Host, but they've never been able to keep all the gods straight. I really like "The Soulmaker"! I think the "The Provider" might actually be the best name for Boldrei.
#6 mystrich Jun 04, 2008 19:20:23	It's not a whole lot different than memorizing the DnD god names the first time, Hextor and Heironeous both start with H. The Dark Six have real names, but the were lost during the Schism.
#7 schala_zeal Jun 04, 2008 21:02:31	I think the names come down to the impression that they want to make. The Dark Six want to sound grand and overawe people, while the Sovereign Host is generally more approachable/part of the common life. So I would think that the followers of the Sovereign Host would use the short name (Onatar, for example). But to be impressive, they would probably use a title such as "Sovereign of ". So I think it depends on the context you want.
#8 Hellcow Jun 04, 2008 21:44:05	The Sovereign Host is exactly the sort of religion where you'd get different titles in different cultures; in some places Aureon is Aureon Lawbringer, in others he is the Lord of Law and Lore, etc. In the game I'm playing in, I'm playing a paladin of the Church of the Wyrm Ascendant, the Sovereign sect mentioned in Stormreach; as such, he refers to all of the Sovereigns by their draconic forms, calling on "the strength of the Silver Sovereign" instead of Dol Dorn, or cursing the name of the Wild Wyrm instead of the Fury. So nothing wrong with giving them titles. As for "the point of the confusing names", if you look again, what you have is four pairs of gods and goddesses with similar names - Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah, Onatar and Olladra, Aureon and Arawai, Balinor and Boldrei - which is actually based on the concept of relation between them. The Dols are brother and sister, supposedly (for all that their draconic forms don't seem to match up with this). Kol Korran stands alone, but is said to be related to the Keeper. the Devourer is a god of storms and destruction, not of gluttony He's seen as the wild force of nature - the angry ocean that devours the ship, the wildfire that consumes all in its path, the earthquake that swallows the city, and the hurricane that simply shatters and scatters. So it's true, he doesn't literally EAT things - but in many of his aspects (fire, ocean) he does consume them.
#9 drwenski Jun 05, 2008 16:31:23	Damn! I have to get Stormreach now. Also, me=owned on the names. It makes since now and while I'd still prefer titled SH gods, I can explain the names to my players. Thanks Keith and good luck on the 4th Ed. conversion stuff!