Speculation - Dragon's Mourning - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Speculation - Dragon's Mourning

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
moonsword
Jul 16, 2010 22:34:49 Just a thought that occurred to me. What if the Mourning was the result of the dragons of Argonnessen reaching for the nuclear option as a brute force answer to avert an even worse disaster? The obvious answer is that they foresaw a near-term high probability of an Overlord getting loose due to the ongoing chaos of the Last War, and for whatever reason, simply dropping a hammer that big was the best solution they could come up with.

It can be worse, though. What if doing that sort of damage wasn't a panic response, but a calculated, long-term move to accomplish some greater good? What, to the dragons, would be worth it? I realize that they don't necessarily give a thimble of spit over human life, but the Day of Mourning's damage goes far beyond the people killed. The Mournland is a horrific magical scar on the face of Eberron and that doesn't even consider the drastic alterations to the available "branches" of the Prophecy from that sort of brutal pruning. This is the sort of thing they've spent millennia not doing after the fallout from their actions against the giants.

I'm really just fishing for ideas and responses here. It's an interesting idea for me, since the dragons are at least ostensibly the sympathetic side of that particular divide. They're not nice and calling them "good" is definitely a stretch in a lot of cases, but they're ultimately the ones who stand for keeping Eberron basically intact and without rampaging eldritch abominations. I understand that ultimately, they'd do something like this because it seems to lead to exactly that - an Eberron where the Overlords stay in their cells - but the step between "massive magical conflagration" and "profit" seems like an interesting one to explore.
#2
Ogiwan
Jul 17, 2010 17:38:41 That's actually an interesting thought. Conceptually, the Queen of Cyre could have been reaching for new ways to not lose, and one of her projects was tapping into the Overlord's prison or whatever. The Dragon's counter, then, was just like shooting at a muzzle flash; by establishing Cyre as the target, they destroyed exactly what needed to be destroyed, or some such.
#3
AvonRekaes
Jul 19, 2010 9:32:25 What's interesting about the Prophecy is that you can mold it however you need to.

For instance, the consequence of not Mourning Cyre may have nothing to do with Galifar at all. The Prophecy could read something like "When the crown jewel of a human kingdom falls to elves and holy men, Tiamat, the Daughter of Khyber, shall be freed". So then, the dragons have two choices, make sure Thrane and Valenar don't defeat Cyre, or defeat Cyre themselves so Thrane and Valenar can't.

Why would Thrane and Valenar splitting Cyre's territories lead to Tiamat's release? Who knows? Maybe Prince Oragev would have begun adventuring for a way to take revenge on clearly defined enemies and become a Talon of Tiamat, eventually finding the secret to releasing her. Maybe it's just some metaphysical mystic connection with Cyre being greedily consumed by other nations that somehow stengthens Tiamat.
#4
connortheconman93
Jul 19, 2010 20:51:08 An interesting theory AvonRekaes. I think that Tiamat is strengthened by the power of dragons, because last time they expanded they almost let her slip, but she could also be strengthened by any number of things. Perhaps Cyre made a deal or was about to make a deal with the Talons of Tiamat, to help them free Tiamat. The power of a reunited Gailfar would go a long way towards helping free her.
#5
skrapsan
Jul 28, 2010 7:36:14 A few years ago (during the 3.5 days... man that made me somehow feel old), there was a poster who presented the following theory.

Dragons are the ultimate magic users, divine, arcane and all others, name and blood magic for example. (there had just been released a book about name magic in DnD).
So when the dragons decided to wipe out the dragons they unnamed xen'drik.
same thing with Cyre, they realised that the queen was up to no good and woosh no more Cyre.

My personal one is that the qeen started a ritual that ripped the entire country out of the material plane and made it into a domain of dread (Ravenloft) and that each time you pass through the mist there is a chance that you will end up in "old Cyre"
#6
jtrowell
Aug 05, 2010 6:56:06 Dragons nuked Cyre because an Overlord was about to get free.

The Mournland is not the direct consequence of the magic used to "destroy" the overlord, it *is* the Overlord itself, as their essence cannot be destroyed and corrupted the land.

This is only one theory of course, inspired by a chapter in "Dragons of Eberron" where there were talks about a big group of Dragons having finally "killed" one overlord (at terrible cost for thermselves) during the War only to found the land corrupted by it. And if someone were to find a way to clean/heal the land, it would only result in releasing the Overlord essence, allowing the Overlord to be reborn in Khyber.

With this theory you can have your group working to clean the Mournland (maybe with a character taking the Mournland savior Epic Destiny) only to found that their success ha released something *bad*.

^_^
#7
PJammaGod
Aug 08, 2010 22:27:42 Heh Bittersweet endings, the best way to conclude any Eberron adventure. Perhaps to a certain extent (and going with J's reasoning behind the Mourning), this is why the remaining Four nations are not exploring the restoration of Cyre seriously.

I mean let's be realistic. Cyre is of key strategic importance If you want to move goods or people across Eberron you have the option of Boat or Airship. And with the destruction of White Arch Bridge nations and the Dragonmarked houses cannot rely on using the Lightning Rail to move trade between Thaliost and Rekkenmark. So it's floating stuff across Scions Sound or shipping it via the Bitter Sea to the North or the Thunder Sea to the south.

So finanically it would be brilliant to rebuild Cyre, restore the nation just to allow an easier flow of trade (the lifeblood of any nation). But they still dither and dally, shuffle around and do nothing. Heck The Twelve (arcane research branch of the Dragonmarked Houses) hasn't bothered lifting a finger in regards to researching the calamity.

So why? Mayhap the Dragon's are pulling the strings in the background. They don't want the Overlord free and will do anything to ensure it. So when the players go on a major quest to restore the Mournland, their enemies may be the goodly dragons and their allies the evil Lords of Dust...
#8
jastermereel
Sep 04, 2010 23:16:48 The way I was planning to explain the Mourning was very similar to this.

I've had a long running conversation with some of my players about warfare in a magical world like Eberron, and we had concluded that the most "technologically" advanced civilizations (the Dragons, the Overlords, etc...) no longer had the need for armies or even proxy armies (pure constructs), but that they resort directly to rituals that cause physical destruction remotely, as well as something similar to the mythals of FR used to protect against such magic, and that the wars of the past took place almost entirely virtually (meaning remotely, and mostly unseen), but that the results were drastic alterations in the landscape (i.e., the Mournland).

Anyway, the concept I envisioned was that House Cannith (which was mostly based in Cyre) had kind of stumbled upon this sort of mighty ritual magic but obviously could never find any spellcasters powerful enough to enact it even in groups working together, so they were beginning to construct eldritch machines based on designs from the Giants (these sorts of weapons were what the Giants used against the Quori to seal Dal Quor from Eberron, because the Dragons gave it to them, and that was why the Dragons intervened when the Giants were going to use it against their elven slaves).

The idea was that a Rakshasa agent had been gently pushing this research along toward completion, as part of some nebulous plot to release an Overlord (this was just to be a single cog in the great machine of the Rakshasa's plot), and as Cannith got closer and closer to completing the weapon a dragon of the Chamber caught wind of it, and through intermediaries set the device off prematurely (with some modification so that it would target Cyre), causing the Day of Mourning and destroying the country, the device, and all of the researchers who had been working on it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 moonsword Jul 16, 2010 22:34:49	Just a thought that occurred to me. What if the Mourning was the result of the dragons of Argonnessen reaching for the nuclear option as a brute force answer to avert an even worse disaster? The obvious answer is that they foresaw a near-term high probability of an Overlord getting loose due to the ongoing chaos of the Last War, and for whatever reason, simply dropping a hammer that big was the best solution they could come up with. It can be worse, though. What if doing that sort of damage wasn't a panic response, but a calculated, long-term move to accomplish some greater good? What, to the dragons, would be worth it? I realize that they don't necessarily give a thimble of spit over human life, but the Day of Mourning's damage goes far beyond the people killed. The Mournland is a horrific magical scar on the face of Eberron and that doesn't even consider the drastic alterations to the available "branches" of the Prophecy from that sort of brutal pruning. This is the sort of thing they've spent millennia not doing after the fallout from their actions against the giants. I'm really just fishing for ideas and responses here. It's an interesting idea for me, since the dragons are at least ostensibly the sympathetic side of that particular divide. They're not nice and calling them "good" is definitely a stretch in a lot of cases, but they're ultimately the ones who stand for keeping Eberron basically intact and without rampaging eldritch abominations. I understand that ultimately, they'd do something like this because it seems to lead to exactly that - an Eberron where the Overlords stay in their cells - but the step between "massive magical conflagration" and "profit" seems like an interesting one to explore.
#2 Ogiwan Jul 17, 2010 17:38:41	That's actually an interesting thought. Conceptually, the Queen of Cyre could have been reaching for new ways to not lose, and one of her projects was tapping into the Overlord's prison or whatever. The Dragon's counter, then, was just like shooting at a muzzle flash; by establishing Cyre as the target, they destroyed exactly what needed to be destroyed, or some such.
#3 AvonRekaes Jul 19, 2010 9:32:25	What's interesting about the Prophecy is that you can mold it however you need to. For instance, the consequence of not Mourning Cyre may have nothing to do with Galifar at all. The Prophecy could read something like "When the crown jewel of a human kingdom falls to elves and holy men, Tiamat, the Daughter of Khyber, shall be freed". So then, the dragons have two choices, make sure Thrane and Valenar don't defeat Cyre, or defeat Cyre themselves so Thrane and Valenar can't. Why would Thrane and Valenar splitting Cyre's territories lead to Tiamat's release? Who knows? Maybe Prince Oragev would have begun adventuring for a way to take revenge on clearly defined enemies and become a Talon of Tiamat, eventually finding the secret to releasing her. Maybe it's just some metaphysical mystic connection with Cyre being greedily consumed by other nations that somehow stengthens Tiamat.
#4 connortheconman93 Jul 19, 2010 20:51:08	An interesting theory AvonRekaes. I think that Tiamat is strengthened by the power of dragons, because last time they expanded they almost let her slip, but she could also be strengthened by any number of things. Perhaps Cyre made a deal or was about to make a deal with the Talons of Tiamat, to help them free Tiamat. The power of a reunited Gailfar would go a long way towards helping free her.
#5 skrapsan Jul 28, 2010 7:36:14	A few years ago (during the 3.5 days... man that made me somehow feel old), there was a poster who presented the following theory. Dragons are the ultimate magic users, divine, arcane and all others, name and blood magic for example. (there had just been released a book about name magic in DnD). So when the dragons decided to wipe out the dragons they unnamed xen'drik. same thing with Cyre, they realised that the queen was up to no good and woosh no more Cyre. My personal one is that the qeen started a ritual that ripped the entire country out of the material plane and made it into a domain of dread (Ravenloft) and that each time you pass through the mist there is a chance that you will end up in "old Cyre"
#6 jtrowell Aug 05, 2010 6:56:06	Dragons nuked Cyre because an Overlord was about to get free. The Mournland is not the direct consequence of the magic used to "destroy" the overlord, it is the Overlord itself, as their essence cannot be destroyed and corrupted the land. This is only one theory of course, inspired by a chapter in "Dragons of Eberron" where there were talks about a big group of Dragons having finally "killed" one overlord (at terrible cost for thermselves) during the War only to found the land corrupted by it. And if someone were to find a way to clean/heal the land, it would only result in releasing the Overlord essence, allowing the Overlord to be reborn in Khyber. With this theory you can have your group working to clean the Mournland (maybe with a character taking the Mournland savior Epic Destiny) only to found that their success ha released something bad. ^_^
#7 PJammaGod Aug 08, 2010 22:27:42	Heh Bittersweet endings, the best way to conclude any Eberron adventure. Perhaps to a certain extent (and going with J's reasoning behind the Mourning), this is why the remaining Four nations are not exploring the restoration of Cyre seriously. I mean let's be realistic. Cyre is of key strategic importance If you want to move goods or people across Eberron you have the option of Boat or Airship. And with the destruction of White Arch Bridge nations and the Dragonmarked houses cannot rely on using the Lightning Rail to move trade between Thaliost and Rekkenmark. So it's floating stuff across Scions Sound or shipping it via the Bitter Sea to the North or the Thunder Sea to the south. So finanically it would be brilliant to rebuild Cyre, restore the nation just to allow an easier flow of trade (the lifeblood of any nation). But they still dither and dally, shuffle around and do nothing. Heck The Twelve (arcane research branch of the Dragonmarked Houses) hasn't bothered lifting a finger in regards to researching the calamity. So why? Mayhap the Dragon's are pulling the strings in the background. They don't want the Overlord free and will do anything to ensure it. So when the players go on a major quest to restore the Mournland, their enemies may be the goodly dragons and their allies the evil Lords of Dust...
#8 jastermereel Sep 04, 2010 23:16:48	The way I was planning to explain the Mourning was very similar to this. I've had a long running conversation with some of my players about warfare in a magical world like Eberron, and we had concluded that the most "technologically" advanced civilizations (the Dragons, the Overlords, etc...) no longer had the need for armies or even proxy armies (pure constructs), but that they resort directly to rituals that cause physical destruction remotely, as well as something similar to the mythals of FR used to protect against such magic, and that the wars of the past took place almost entirely virtually (meaning remotely, and mostly unseen), but that the results were drastic alterations in the landscape (i.e., the Mournland). Anyway, the concept I envisioned was that House Cannith (which was mostly based in Cyre) had kind of stumbled upon this sort of mighty ritual magic but obviously could never find any spellcasters powerful enough to enact it even in groups working together, so they were beginning to construct eldritch machines based on designs from the Giants (these sorts of weapons were what the Giants used against the Quori to seal Dal Quor from Eberron, because the Dragons gave it to them, and that was why the Dragons intervened when the Giants were going to use it against their elven slaves). The idea was that a Rakshasa agent had been gently pushing this research along toward completion, as part of some nebulous plot to release an Overlord (this was just to be a single cog in the great machine of the Rakshasa's plot), and as Cannith got closer and closer to completing the weapon a dragon of the Chamber caught wind of it, and through intermediaries set the device off prematurely (with some modification so that it would target Cyre), causing the Day of Mourning and destroying the country, the device, and all of the researchers who had been working on it.