Spellscars as a template for Dragonmarks

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Talae

Sep 23, 2008 16:57:43
So what do you guys think about using the Spellscar format to make the Dragonmarks?

For instance:

Dragonmarked [Multiclassed Dragonmarked]
Prerequisite: Appropriate Dragonmark race.
Beneift: Gain the appropriate feature listed below. You also qualify for the Novice Power, Acolyte Power, and Adept Power feats (PH 209), treating Dragonmarked as the class into which you have multiclassed.
[INDENT]Mark of Shadow (Elf) Once per encounter gain concealment until the end of your next turn.[/INDENT]
[INDENT][insert continued list of races and their powers][/INDENT]

Dragonmarked Powers
[INDENT][insert list of powers that are able to be swapped.][/INDENT]
#2

tiwaztyrsfist

Sep 23, 2008 18:49:22
Yeah, I'm seeing this as the way to go.

The hardest part, of coarse, is going to be translating the mostly non-combat effects of the 3.X dragonmarks into 4e powers.

House Orien, for example, is pretty easy. Teleport movement effects are pretty bog standard in 4e, and can easily be implimented.

House Vadalis however is going to be hard to translate.

We'll see...
#3

nerdicus

Sep 23, 2008 20:17:48
HOuse Vadalis should be all about minions.
#4

Gilo

Sep 23, 2008 21:42:12
I'm just wondering how will the PC ability to retrain this multiclass-feat be handled - does the Dragonmark (/Spellscar) disappear from his body (only to come back at a higher level when he retrain and take it back),
or does it stays on and he only loses the ability to tap its power (but then what if he retrain and pick up a different Dragonmark/multiclass-feat) ?!
#5

mystrich

Sep 23, 2008 22:43:57
I'm just wondering how will the PC ability to retrain this multiclass-feat be handled - does the Dragonmark (/Spellscar) disappear from his body (only to come back at a higher level when he retrain and take it back),
or does it stays on and he only loses the ability to tap its power (but then what if he retrain and pick up a different Dragonmark/multiclass-feat) ?!

Well, Spellscars appear before multi-classing. You grab the multiclass feat as a way to show you've gained the ability to control yours. Going this route, you've forgotten or aren't able to use the full power of your dragonmark for some reason.
#6

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Sep 23, 2008 22:47:32
Or, it could just be that you've accomplished your part of the draconic prophecy. Upon the completed part (the player retraining) the mark disappears. Perhaps the prophecy changes, and the mark resurfaces later (PC retraining again). Of course I find this kind of silly, perhaps they should put the caveat that dragonmarks can not be retrained once taken.
#7

Gilo

Sep 24, 2008 0:56:53
Or, it could just be that you've accomplished your part of the draconic prophecy. Upon the completed part (the player retraining) the mark disappears. Perhaps the prophecy changes, and the mark resurfaces later (PC retraining again). Of course I find this kind of silly, perhaps they should put the caveat that dragonmarks can not be retrained once taken.

yep, if retrained is not prevented the PC will might just change marks every level - making Dragonmarks just a magical effect and negating the all concept of PC belonging to a specific Dragonmarked House.

There is also the issue of trading class powers which are combat-encounter useful for Dragonmark powers which are not necessarily combat-encounter (not like in the Spellscar powers) but more Ritual/Skill type powers in nature (e.g. locate object, message) which I think is unbalancing since other multi-class feats do not weaken the PC combat abilities.
#8

Talae

Sep 24, 2008 1:16:39
Suggestion as to the power level of the ability mentioned? Also what about the first couple of levels of powers for the swaps?

Distracting Strike (or similar name) Dragonmarked (Mark of Shadow) Attack 1
Encounter ✦ Martial,Weapon
Standard Action
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target grants you combat advantage until the end of your next turn.
#9

ninjaarthiddenjutsu_dup

Sep 27, 2008 17:59:22
Mark of Scribing is going to be pretty hard to fit into 4E. Scribing does not lend itself to cinematic gameplay very easily.
#10

Talae

Sep 28, 2008 0:47:27
Has anyone created variant Spellscar traits yet? I looked around and can't seem to find them (even specific to Forgotten Realms).
#11

snarky_monkey

Sep 28, 2008 1:18:58
I'm not a fan of this approach, unless the dragonmarked multi-class does not count against your 1 multiclass limit. I understand the idea of swapping powers being a more balanced approached, ie novice feat and such, just can't imagine not being able to dabble in another class just because you bear a mark.
#12

That_Blasted_Somoflange

Sep 28, 2008 19:57:40
I'm not a fan of this approach, unless the dragonmarked multi-class does not count against your 1 multiclass limit. I understand the idea of swapping powers being a more balanced approached, ie novice feat and such, just can't imagine not being able to dabble in another class just because you bear a mark.

I mentioned this in another thread, I have a feeling that you can take a dragonmark which will be a feat, or series of feats. There may be a dragonmark multiclass, the dragonmark heir/heir of syberis. These would be for the characters that devote time and effort to learning how to use their dragonmarks to the full potential, and thus it should count against your multi-class.
#13

vanforge

Sep 28, 2008 21:47:29
I don't like the idea of changing true marks to attack powers.

I am using a mix of rituals and utitlies for marks and it's working well.

Now for the mixed marks or Syberian marks I like the idea of spellscars but normal marks shouldn't be attacks.
#14

Arcane_Guyver

Sep 28, 2008 22:44:43
From what I've seen:

Regular D-marks: Rituals & Utility powers
Aberrant D-marks: Spellscarred
Siberys D-marks: Paragon Path or Epic Destiny

I'd prefer Siberys marks be Paragon Paths (since that's about the level they were available in 3e), but they do seem like a natural fit for an Epic Destiny.

Edit: Actually, the authors of the Eberron Player's Guide could just direct players to the Spellscarred multiclass in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide for Aberrant Marks. Kinda like how they'll direct players to that book for Drow and possibly Genasi stats.
#15

tiwaztyrsfist

Sep 29, 2008 3:27:00
Mark of Scribing is going to be pretty hard to fit into 4E. Scribing does not lend itself to cinematic gameplay very easily.

Symbol Spells.
Glyph spells.
I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

Which is, basically, what it does in 3.X
#16

Tharag_Bocc

Sep 29, 2008 4:50:06
As I've said before in other posts it would imparactical to have Dragonmarks completly mimic Spellscars due to scale (it would simply take to many pages to list the required number of powers). I go into more detail in about it in a thread on the other Eberron board.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16947138#post16947138

I do however like the sudgestion of using Spellscars (either addapted or cloned) for aberant marks.

I can't say that I agree with using rituals as a basis for dragonmarks is a good idea. Though purhaps giving each dragon mark a list of rituals that you could use without the need for the Ritual Caster feat would be a good idea.

I'm mixed on Heir of Siberys. Paragon Path is closer to its orginal power level, but Epic Destiny works better for flavor. I'm leaning toward Epic, but am not comited.

Pargon level should however offer a path (or paths) based around the Dragonmarked Heir. 12 paths, one for each mark, might be to many for a single concept. It would seem sensible to me to pair them up, covering each of two marks, (such as detection/finding or healing/hospitality), as a single Paragon Path.
#17

ChrisTheS

Sep 29, 2008 12:04:10
I'm mixed on Heir of Siberys. Paragon Path is closer to its orginal power level, but Epic Destiny works better for flavor. I'm leaning toward Epic, but am not comited.

Given its appearance in the literature, Paragon would be more appropriate - although it would be slightly counterintuitive given that a requirement would be 'must NOT have a dragonmark already'. But I actually think a paragon tier feat is the more likely, since making 12 unique feat powers is a lot easier than making 12 full paragon paths.
#18

Talae

Sep 29, 2008 16:25:13
What do you think about this? I have a player using the Shadow Stride variation.
Dragonmark Heir
[Multiclass Dragonmark Heir]
Prerequisite: You have a Dragonmark
Benefit: You gain the ability to focus your
dragonmark to useful ends. You qualify for
the Novice Power, Acolyte Power, and Adept
Power feats (PH 209), treating Dragonmarked
as the class into which you have multiclassed.
You also choose one trait from the following
list. (Your DM might create other traits to add
to this list, or allow you to devise one of your own.)
✦ Sight of the Unseen: You have darkvision
extending 1 square in all directions that you can turn on
and off at will. When your darkvision is on, your
eyes are backlit with a dancing blue flame.
✦ Flamespeed: Once per encounter as a minor
action, you gain a +1 bonus to speed or a +2 bonus
to speed if you charge or run. The bonus lasts until
the end of your next turn. Blue flame momentarily
licks the ground where your feet touch it.
✦ Larger than Life: Once per day as a free action,
your hands flare with a blue glow and you add 1 to
the reach of an attack you make.

DM Created:
✦ Shadow Alias: Once per encounter as a minor
action you may assume the form of a unique individual
that is of the same gender and race. During the
transformation, your body is veiled in a cloud of smoke.
✦ Blanket of Shade: Once per day as a minor action,
One adjacent creature grants you combat advantage.
During this action, the effected creature perceives you
as fading from sight with only a subtle thought.
✦ Shadow Stride: When shifting, once per encounter as
a minor you may shift one additional square. You become
a blur of shadow momentarily.

#19

Arcane_Guyver

Sep 29, 2008 17:33:51
Though purhaps giving each dragon mark a list of rituals that you could use without the need for the Ritual Caster feat would be a good idea.

Yeah, that's kinda where I was going with that. Basically, there'd be a list of rituals associated with each mark, and you can perform a few of them as a daily power (no cost, with the casting time shortened to a standard action). Then, for more combat-oriented marks (Healing, Sending, Shadow, Warding, etc) they'd get access to some daily Utility powers.
#20

tiwaztyrsfist

Sep 30, 2008 1:01:29
I predict that Each Dragonmark feat will replace a utility power with a special utility power.
#21

Tharag_Bocc

Sep 30, 2008 1:50:32
Given its appearance in the literature, Paragon would be more appropriate - although it would be slightly counterintuitive given that a requirement would be 'must NOT have a dragonmark already'. But I actually think a paragon tier feat is the more likely, since making 12 unique feat powers is a lot easier than making 12 full paragon paths.

I can't comment on the literature aspect, as I don't read D&D novels.

I'll agree that Heir to Siberys would be to much as 12 separate Paragon Paths. However, a single feat makes it not much more than an alternate Dragonmark rather than the aw inspiring thing of legend its fluff makes it out to be.

The reason I lean towards Epic is that Siberys marks are supposed to be exceptionally rare and things don't get much rarer then the Epic Destiny. Also while I doubt one could design a single Paragon Path that would function satisfactorily, I do believe that a single epic destiny could suffice. Base it around the example of the Forgotten Realms epic destiny The Chosen (unified set of features with a separate utility power for each mark).
#22

ChrisTheS

Sep 30, 2008 9:34:03
The problem then becomes, if you restrict it to Epic, that means that the House will have a harder time trying to manipulate the character - assuming the continuing trend of exclusively low-level NPCs, a Siberys-marked character could easily overpower/subvert/sidestep any attempt by her House to control her, which is a pervading theme about Siberys marks. Paragon level at least strikes a balance.
#23

Tharag_Bocc

Sep 30, 2008 15:01:04
The problem then becomes, if you restrict it to Epic, that means that the House will have a harder time trying to manipulate the character - assuming the continuing trend of exclusively low-level NPCs, a Siberys-marked character could easily overpower/subvert/sidestep any attempt by her House to control her, which is a pervading theme about Siberys marks. Paragon level at least strikes a balance.

Maybe, then again manipulation don't have to involve physical bullying. The house could just as easily go for psychological manipulation. Also the fact that the Heir to Siberys has a built in conflict is more like an epic destiny then a paragon path.

As for the level problem, I'm not sure I agree with that. Eberron was a place of low level NPC back in 3.5, but 3.5 was very much a world simulator. In 4e characters are always expected to be face challenges from comparable foes. Also in 3.5 an Heir to Siberys had to be at least level 13, that's the equivalent of 19 to 20 in 4th edition.
#24

PJammaGod

Oct 01, 2008 9:14:32
I'd go with the social/personal manipulation when it comes to how Siberys marked individuals are directed (blackmailed) in what they do by their resident houses. It would also go with the theme of the Dragonmark Houses, subtle political machinations, blunt economic action. More machiavelli for us DM's to play with.

For now methinks we'll have to wait and see what they (wizards) do with Dragonmarks. But I don't think it will disappoint.