I've read FR for 4 years now, but got bored.
I picked up The Storm Dragon, and nearly exploded with awesome.
Magic robots!
Fantastic landscapes!
CHANGELINGSAHSAHDHSHDFKLJKSSOMGWIN!
What else should I read, and how long until the Rulebooks come out?
Keith Baker's The Dreaming Dark is also excellent and lets you get to see the creator's view, but I'd say that his first book of the Thorn trilogy (as its the only one out now) is where he really hits his stride as a novelist. Really, Queen of Stone if friggin awesome.
For one off books I like Bound by Iron, The Darkwood Mask, and The Orb of Xor'iat.
Of course if you'd tell us your tastes in Eberron, what excites you, we could probably stear you towards what you should read novel wise. If you like changlings you've probably already picked the best series (find the second book for even more changling awesomeness) also pick up James Wyatt's "Claws of the Tiger" which is a sort of prelude to Storm Dragon (there are some characters that cross over) but if you do that you'd want to pick up Tales of the Last War which has a stort story by James Wyatt that's a straight up prelude to Claws of the Tiger (and has a lot of other awesome short stories in it that tie into many of the novels).
Anyway the Eberron Campaign Setting, the Eberron Player's Guide, and the adventure module for Eberron are supposed to drop in June/July.
I'll check those out!
I had the same question as the OP. My first exposure to eberron was the dreaming dark trilogy I just finished. In terms of a quality read what should I get. THe storm dragon series seems interesting. As does the thorn one.
I'm interested in reading about shifters, and getting a feel for them too.
lol yeah, don't call WF robots around eberron reader/players, I learned about that recently.... they don't respondly nicely :P I blacked out and only vaguely remember fire, and pitchforks!
It's mostly because people like to reference "robots" in a pejorative manner, to suggest that Eberron is an OMFGBBQ ANIME setting, and that's annoying. Usually, it's either robots or the halflings riding dinosaurs.
That said, the reaction is rather unreasonable, though, particularly if you're familiar with Golden-Age science fiction, in which robots really do often inhabit the exact same thematic space. I mean, the word 'robot' even came from the czech word for serf labor. It's a little disingenuous to suggest that Warforged aren't at all like pulp-era robots, in the thematic sense; it's just that they have a somewhat different power source (Magic, as opposed to Science!. Though, we should all be familiar enough with Clarke's third law to know exactly how much that distinction really matters in any non-semantic way.)
Sorry, it's just a bit of a pet-peeve of mine that both the eberron haters and the defensive eberron fans always talk as though there's something fundamentally wrong about having a robot in a fantasy work and calling it a robot. It hardly makes the setting 'anime', or anything, particularly as it actually fits in very well with the pulp and golden-age treatments of sentient automata.
And by the way, Warforged are not robots. They are closely related to golems.
I know, it was just my initial reaction.
Anyone know why Borders and B&N have 20 FR to 1 Eberron book?
I literally had 4 Ebrron books to choose from at Barnes and Noble, and 2 at Brders.
Wait, is Xoriat that place with Abberations and Illithids and stuff?
I love Abberations.
Also, any books about Khyber?
I'm interested in reading about shifters, and getting a feel for them too.
Don Bassingthwaite's books all star a shifter named Geth, so I recomend his Dragon Below trilogy.
I know, it was just my initial reaction.
Anyone know why Borders and B&N have 20 FR to 1 Eberron book?
I literally had 4 Ebrron books to choose from at Barnes and Noble, and 2 at Brders.
I noticed this as well. This is something new I noticed. My local store used to have several EB books and now have none. I have to special order them.
Anyway Queen of Stone is awesome as is Doom of Kings.
It's mostly because people like to reference "robots" in a pejorative manner, to suggest that Eberron is an OMFGBBQ ANIME setting, and that's annoying. Usually, it's either robots or the halflings riding dinosaurs.
That said, the reaction is rather unreasonable, though, particularly if you're familiar with Golden-Age science fiction, in which robots really do often inhabit the exact same thematic space. I mean, the word 'robot' even came from the czech word for serf labor. It's a little disingenuous to suggest that Warforged aren't at all like pulp-era robots, in the thematic sense; it's just that they have a somewhat different power source (Magic, as opposed to Science!. Though, we should all be familiar enough with Clarke's third law to know exactly how much that distinction really matters in any non-semantic way.)
Sorry, it's just a bit of a pet-peeve of mine that both the eberron haters and the defensive eberron fans always talk as though there's something fundamentally wrong about having a robot in a fantasy work and calling it a robot. It hardly makes the setting 'anime', or anything, particularly as it actually fits in very well with the pulp and golden-age treatments of sentient automata.
Actually, my problem comes more from people thinking they're mechanical or clockwork, are programmed/hard-wired to act certain ways and reprogrammed (without, say, charm or dominate effects), can catch 'computer viruses', their 4-hour rest is 'sleep mode' and other modern/sci-fi nonsense. I've even had one player ask if he was bound by the 'Laws of Robotics', whatever those are, and one who's said they can't be anything but martial characters because they're 'just machines'.
Yeah, it's a berserk button.
Is Xoriat that place with Abberations and Illithids and stuff?
I love Abberations.
First question, Yes, Xoriat is the plane of Aberrations and all thing madness.
Second question: Well the Iron Orphan fan fic have an character in it with an aberration symbiont (spelling?) that sends him mental images and is attached to his neck. Keep in mind though that its a fan fic and not even close to being cannon. But the author quite a good understanding of the setting.
i'm glad i've never run into any warforged problems with players. now we've had some fun discussions over warforged souls and thier existance. my brother was of the belief that they don't. (he likes warforged by the way) i believe they do, just not a traditional one. of course i won.lol. i think he wanted them to have souls anyway.
I've even had one player ask if he was bound by the 'Laws of Robotics'...
Burch the Shifter
Xalt the WF Artifacer
A changeling,
I really enjoyed it.
I forget who the author was, Matt F.
someone will correct me.
I think most people just didn't like that the Mark of Death was being addressed so directly when it was one of those things 'left in the hands of the DM' in the campaign setting. They were worried it would become canon.
Really The Lost Mark had some fantastic sequences. The warforged city i the Mournland, the various airship battles. Burch in particular was a facinating characer.
I think the only universally panned Eberron book was the Chrimson Talisman... not for lack of tallent on the author's part, as one of the first Eberron novels released I'm convinced the setting wasn't finished when it was written and as such it doesn't jive with the setting at all. Contradictions and thematic clashes all over the place.
Here be Spoilers
Like... the Deathless lich in the Mournland? Why? The wierdness with that half-dragon...
Yeah but they don't obey Zeroth's Law. Hence why the Lord of Blades is trying to "liberate" us from ourselves ;) . We created the Mourning, what else could we do to ourselves?
What else should I read
Any non-Eberron books with an Eberron aspect/theme (fantasy/sci-fi) recommendations?
Yeah but they don't obey Zeroth's Law. Hence why the Lord of Blades is trying to "liberate" us from ourselves ;) . We created the Mourning, what else could we do to ourselves?
Newton's Third Law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite *facepalm* ;)
Hey I could invoke Godwin's Law and make an analogy between the despotic Lord of Blades and Hitler :P .
But then you would loose, would you not?
...dangnabbit!!!
Hey I could invoke Godwin's Law and make an analogy between the despotic Lord of Blades and Hitler :P .
Does it count as invoking Godwin's if it actually fits?
Does it count as invoking Godwin's if it actually fits?
Well if you want to derail a topic then yes it does... But then again in reality the law only states that the longer a thread stays a live the more certain one can be that someone is going to drag inn either Hitler or the Nazies. It says nothing about the one doing so loosing. That was added later. (at least according to Wikipedida).
Then again on these boards we compare the emerald claw to nazies pretty often, so by default we are a bunch of losers.... I think I might want to work on that statement. Lets see, if the "and he who does so automatically looses" part counts then we are the losers. But if it doesn't then we are OK.
Well if you want to derail a topic then yes it does... But then again in reality the law only states that the longer a thread stays a live the more certain one can be that someone is going to drag inn either Hitler or the Nazies. It says nothing about the one doing so loosing. That was added later. (at least according to Wikipedida).
Then again on these boards we compare the emerald claw to nazies pretty often, so by default we are a bunch of losers.... I think I might want to work on that statement. Lets see, if the "and he who does so automatically looses" part counts then we are the losers. But if it doesn't then we are OK.
Wasn't trying to derail, just curious.
Also, "Nazis" no "e."
Back on Topic: how about Queen of Stone? How do most people regard that book? (seeing as it's the only other Eberron book I've read so far, I'm curious. [local bookstores have a crap selection of eberron. but I can find 80 copies of every RA Salvatore FR book... It's not that they're bad, it's just, when his work takes up an entire Bay at Border's, you can keep a few less copies.]
Yeah but they don't obey Zeroth's Law. Hence why the Lord of Blades is trying to "liberate" us from ourselves ;) . We created the Mourning, what else could we do to ourselves?
I made a warforged who changed his name from Stonewall (which his "makers" gave him) to Mourning Star (OMG yes I did). He used a morning star so his pc buddies thought that was his deal. In reality he wanted to acquire strength and power and to try and control the five nations since the humans could not be trusted with power. He wanted to head to Sarlona to see how they were able to keep their country so peaceful. He even tried learning about the different religions just so he can better understand mortal thinking. My guy still did not like the Lord of Blades though even though he may have shared his same point of view. My guy figured that if he became a hero he might better get influence and power so he could take over everything. Delusions of grandeur I guess. ;)
Queen of Stone was fun. It also had some good info on Droaam. If someone wanted to play a gnoll it might give them some fine info.
Hehe sorry about that OP, time to get back on track. Okies suggested reading for Eberron. Personally I'd go for anything Steampunk'ish to be honest. In terms of movies, Howl's Moving Castle is quite good. It's also got magic spun through it so bonus. Literature's a little more difficult. I'd recommend the Pax Britannianovels, by Jonathon Green. Nice mix of psuedo-history and steampunk. Not too hard to dig through and decent flow to them.
Actually, my problem comes more from people thinking they're mechanical or clockwork, are programmed/hard-wired to act certain ways and reprogrammed (without, say, charm or dominate effects), can catch 'computer viruses', their 4-hour rest is 'sleep mode' and other modern/sci-fi nonsense. I've even had one player ask if he was bound by the 'Laws of Robotics', whatever those are, and one who's said they can't be anything but martial characters because they're 'just machines'.
Yeah, it's a berserk button.
True, those are really annoying. And even golden age science fiction is hampered by the fact that Asimov's stories, and the according Three Laws, were tragically genre-defining. Still, if you understand 'robot' to mean something more like Philip K Dick's Replicants, or the robots in Metropolis (either the original Fritz Lang or the anime adaptation- both are relevant, albeit in different ways), then yeah, it can really fit. And, there are lots and lots more. But yes, when want to play up the mechanical-ness or computerishness too much, it can get a big aggravating. Properly done robots- Warforged or otherwise, should really feel alien, not mechanical. They still have psyches and personalities, but they're not like biologicals.
The main thing is that robots are often used in sci fi as an allegory for slavery and class warfare, for a metaphor about the dehumanizing face of war, as a message about man's scientific discoveries overtaking and dominating his own destiny, or as a theme of alienness and alienation of an element of society.
Within Eberron, Warforged fit with all these themes, and what's more, to riff off Clarke's Third Law, Eberron's the sort of setting that features sufficiently advanced (and well-placed) magic as to be indistinguishable from "Science!" (which is to say, the classic, hand-wavey, pulp-style version of science).
(also note that this is arguably on-topic, as I definitely mentioned good Eberron-related viewing, at least)
They're not bad...
On the contrary, they are bad. The first one is okay, and Burch is such a likeable character that I enjoyed reading about him. But the whole series is so full of bad writing, that it is quite ridiculous. And it deteriorates from book to book. The only thing worse is Storm Dragon.
But I don't want to rip on that book again.
In the end, we agree, Fabius.
I'm reading Queen of Stone right now.
Seems good. Gnolls are always good.
I really want to get into Eberron.
I've read FR for 4 years now, but got bored.
I picked up The Storm Dragon, and nearly exploded with awesome.
Magic robots!
Fantastic landscapes!
CHANGELINGSAHSAHDHSHDFKLJKSSOMGWIN!
What else should I read, and how long until the Rulebooks come out?
Well Dragon Forge is second book in the Draconic Prophicies series, So I recomend it. The Dreaming Dark trilogy is good to.(Even though I have only read the first book.)
Keith Baker's books are a close second. The Dreaming Dark trilogy is great, including Dragonmarked politics, varying venues and opponents (including Xen'drik), planar goodies--and all this on top of some really good writing. I was surprised Keith was such a good author. Creativity does not guarantee skill with writing, but Keith has both. The Queen of Stone: Thorn of Breland is also very good. I look forward to future books in this series, though they aren't to be a true trilogy, if I remember Keith's words correctly.
The Heirs of Ash trilogy was also very good, though I liked it less than the above two series. It took a while to grow on me. I may need to read it again, actually.
The Lanternlight Files are good. The main character is an interesting guy. I'm curious to see how the last book in that series goes.
Of the stand-alones, I really liked The Darkwood Mask and Night of the Long Shadows. I would like to see these characters again.
Personally, I hated the Lost Mark series. I won't go into all the reasons. I also didn't like the Orb of Xoriat and Bound by Iron stand-alone novels, though I didn't hate them.
Of the stand-alones, I really liked The Darkwood Mask and Night of the Long Shadows. I would like to see these characters again.
Well, you'll at least hear more from Paul Crilley, the author of Night of the Long Shadows, with the upcoming Chronicles of Abraxis Wren.
It's mostly because people like to reference "robots" in a pejorative manner, to suggest that Eberron is an OMFGBBQ ANIME setting, and that's annoying. Usually, it's either robots or the halflings riding dinosaurs.
LFRers use it a lot because they feel Warforged are broken. Of course they're only broken in the hands of power gamers and the people doing the complaining are often the power gamers. But apparently that doesn't matter.
Also its exceedingly frustrating trying to tell them "Warforged = golem with consciousness. NOT ROBOTS" and have them basically just say I'm wrong. And because Forgotten Realms Warforged have no built in history, I can't really muster any further arguments.
Fortunately as a DM I am able to refer to all Warforged as golems and dismiss the golem as a servant to someone else in the party. Hopefully I'll eventually get at least one or two people to realise they're playing a golem.
Anyone know why Borders and B&N have 20 FR to 1 Eberron book?
I literally had 4 Ebrron books to choose from at Barnes and Noble, and 2 at Brders.
As much as we like the setting, I think any of us would be hardpressed to believe its as popular as Forgotten Realms. My local library (which consists of a network of 5 libraries) have tons of Forgotten Realms books. No Eberron books
Well, you'll at least hear more from Paul Crilley, the author of Night of the Long Shadows, with the upcoming Chronicles of Abraxis Wren.
Sweet! I really did enjoy Wren.
If I may ask though, Jeff (and you don't mind answering a question in "public"), are there any nibbles from Wizards for new stuff?
In any case. My favorite trilogy, hands down, is the Heirs of Ash trilogy. If I won the lotto and had millions of dollars to blow, I think I'd try to turn that trilogy into a movie.
The Binding Stone is also a very good trilogy, and the new trilogy by Bassingwaithe looks promising as well.
The Inquisitives series, though, is an anomoly. It is 4 books in a series, but each one of them is unrelated to the others in the series. However, they are all made of win and shiva, as my friend would say.
The War Torn series is like the Inquisitves in that it is a series of 4 books that are unrelated. However, only one of these books is good (Claws of the Tiger), and another (Orb of Xoriat) is decent. The other two aren't that good.
The Mark of Death trilogy is decent, but I have to say that I prefer it to either the Lanternlight Chronicles or Blade of the Flame. The former is very Eberron in feel, but far too nihilistic for my tastes. The latter is more akin to "generic fantasy" than actual Eberron.
Keith Baker's first trilogy, the Dreaming Dark trilogy, I initially thought was decent. However, as I read more Eberron stuff, and re-read the trilogy, I began to appreciate it more, as it is very subtle. His new series, though, Thorn of Breland is also made of win and shiva. Keith, if your infernal bovinity is reading this thread, any news updates for this series?
Keith Baker's first trilogy, the Dreaming Dark trilogy, I initially thought was decent. However, as I read more Eberron stuff, and re-read the trilogy, I began to appreciate it more, as it is very subtle.
Glad to hear someone appreciates it, Ogiwan. ;)
His new series, though, Thorn of Breland is also made of win and shiva. Keith, if your infernal bovinity is reading this thread, any news updates for this series?
The Son of Khyber is coming out in November, best as I know. I'm working on the third book now. Unlike, say, The Shattered Land and The Gates of Night, the Thorn books are all stand-alone... though there are certainly ongoing character development threads.
So, Son of Kyber huh? That anything like an Heir of Siberys?
It just might be.
Glad to hear someone appreciates it, Ogiwan. ;)
The Son of Khyber is coming out in November, best as I know. I'm working on the third book now. Unlike, say, The Shattered Land and The Gates of Night, the Thorn books are all stand-alone... though there are certainly ongoing character development threads.
Just the name The Son of Khyber makes me want it baaad. Oh, side note: my group had Queen of Stone passed around, and as predicted, nearly beshat themselves at the little Prophecy piece I got you to pen on the inside cover. :D
Glad to hear someone appreciates it, Ogiwan. ;)
The Son of Khyber is coming out in November, best as I know. I'm working on the third book now. Unlike, say, The Shattered Land and The Gates of Night, the Thorn books are all stand-alone... though there are certainly ongoing character development threads.
Same here I really liked the dreaming dark series. (And still need to smack the sucker that lend it from me and forgot to return it on the head with a Talenta Tangath and then smack myself for forgetting who I lended it too :embarrass )
Thorn / Queen of Stone I went through in just three nights. I needed my sleep but just couldn't put the book down. The little character dev at the end startled me and felt a bit over the top but I'm more than curious where you will take it and sure as hell want to have that on one of my own characters :P
However I'm curious if there's anything specific you really like about the setting?
If you like warforged, House Cannith, The Dreaming Dark, Xen'drik (eventually) and Eberron's take on Drow go with The Dreaming Dark Tril.
If you like shifters, western Khorvaire, Eberron's orc druids, Eberron's goblins, and the Cults of the Dragon Below... go with the Dragon Below Tril.
Both are great reads.
The drow in Eberron are almost nothing like the drow in the Realms, trust me. And you get to see some of that in Keith's books.
As for warforged, if you want my opinion, The Darkwood Mask (of the Inquisitives series) works very hard to get on the inside of the warforged condition. But I'll stop the shameless plugging right...
NOW. ;)
On Eberron Drow... No Lloth, no spiders, no matriarchy. They're dark elves to be sure, xenophobic as all heck, but they live in the keep jungles of Xen'drik, some venerate Volkuur, a totemic scorpion spirit god, though there are others who've preserved the giant's secrets of elemental binding who want to burn down the world... still others who've bound their souls to the umbra and are battling for their very survival against the horrors of the daelkyr trapped under Xen'drik.
They'll still kill you good, but they've dropped the fetish gear.
Yes the Darkwood Mask is an excellent novel for the Warforged mindset... though personally I'd say its the most enlightening novel ever on the Kobold mindset.
Hah! Thanks. I'd like to think so, too.
I'd say that the Dreaming Dark Tril and the Dragon Below Tril are the easiest to jump into. Both are very much the 'first gen' of the world's fiction and have plenty of exposition about the world (glossories in the back yay!)
However I'm curious if there's anything specific you really like about the setting?
If you like warforged, House Cannith, The Dreaming Dark, Xen'drik (eventually) and Eberron's take on Drow go with The Dreaming Dark Tril.
If you like shifters, western Khorvaire, Eberron's orc druids, Eberron's goblins, and the Cults of the Dragon Below... go with the Dragon Below Tril.
Both are great reads.
Both sound good, but my local bookstores have NOTHING.
They have Storm Dragon, Dragon Forge, and that book on Dhakaani.
As for warforged, if you want my opinion, The Darkwood Mask (of the Inquisitives series) works very hard to get on the inside of the warforged condition.
While The Queen of Stone works very hard to get on the inside of the medusa and gnoll conditions. Just in case you're dying to know more about medusas... ;)