Talanta halflings really need some love... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Talanta halflings really need some love...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Cyber-Dave
Jul 22, 2009 21:09:23 I'm trying to build a viable talanta halfling. What I want from this halfling is the ability to ride a clawfoot/carver and be viable through all levels of play. Right now, its impossible.

Lets say I play a barbarian and take mounted combat. After level six you out-level your dinosaur. If you continue to ride it the chances of it dying every fight are very high. Its AC will be an easy hit. It wont have very many hit points to survive hits.

Lets say you play a beast master ranger, and you manage to convince your DM to let you ride your lizard beast. Well, thats a lot nicer. Except, beast master rangers use strength and wisdom. Your bonus to dex/cha is totally wasted.

Some sort of options that make playing a talanta halfling option that actually focuses on making the flavor of the talanta halfling (riding a dinosaur) viable REALLY needs to be released in DDi right now.
#2
Nived
Jul 23, 2009 5:14:37 I don't have the Eberron Campaign Guide (yet should be arriving later today), but the solution I worked out with my DM was that I'd just trade up for more powerful reptile based mounts, so the stats would improve, I'd still spend the money for the mount, but it would still essentially be my same dinosaur.

Draft lizard to start, eventually a rage drake, but those are just the stats, its still the same clawfoot my character raised on the plains.

As for where the money goes, hand wave it or spend it on some sort of 'ritual'.
#3
polt
Jul 23, 2009 5:51:02 If that's the character you want to play, and you don't abuse the fact that you got a mount, the DM should just let you have it and not kill it every combat.
#4
JohnLynch
Jul 23, 2009 5:52:23
If that's the character you want to play, and you don't abuse the fact that you got a mount, the DM should just let you have it and not kill it every combat.

Area affect attacks can be an issue though.
#5
AvonRekaes
Jul 23, 2009 9:21:49 Maybe you can work out some Bonded Mount feat.

Your mount gets a bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and all defenses equal to your highest ability modifier. When you mount it, it gains Temp HP equal to your... healing surge value? bloodied value? 4 x your level? that resets every short rest you spend with your mount.
#6
rekko
Jul 23, 2009 9:30:16 One possibility is to MC into Ranger and switch Hunter's Quarry for a Beast Companion. If you take the Power-swap feats, you can also take Beast master ranger powers. Take the lizard beast, increase its size to large, damage to 1d10, but remove the opportunity attack +2 bonus.

Maybe, when reaching certain levels (7, 12, 17, 22, 27) your mount can gain a special mount ability that can replace previous mount abilities it had. Mount abilities could include giving more AC to rider, more movement, make a special attack when charging, maybe knocking a target prone or even jumping, etc. Look at some drakes' abilities around those levels to inspire you and your DM.

Second option would be to hybrid into Ranger.

Another possibility would be to buy a drake of appropriate level and ride it. When a say buy, it doesn't necessary says you need to find your clawfoot at some marketplace, but you could have find it in the wilds and tame it, the money spent could represent paying some trainer, food, saddle, caretaker, etc.
#7
JohnLynch
Jul 23, 2009 9:49:49 How was this handled in 3.5? Could rangers mount their animal companions (thus letting the mount to grow in power under the animal companion rules)?

An alternative would be to use the DMG rules to periodically increase the mounts level. Although you'd need to be careful and ensure the latest version is comparable to mounts of a similar level.
#8
AvonRekaes
Jul 23, 2009 9:54:41 3.5 was much less restrictive about mounts. Basically, any creature that was one size larger than you, if physically capable and willing, could be a mount.

You could mount a Gray Render, for instance.

It was very easy for small characters to get a mount as their animal companion.
#9
rekko
Jul 23, 2009 10:36:35 We could create a Mount Template.

The template could be given to beasts and magical beasts.

The template would provide some HP per level, bonuses to Defenses, Saving Throws. The beast would keep its basic attacks, and its special attack would gain the Mount keyword, which means it needs to be mounted, and the PC need the Mounted Combat feat to use the ability.

Example, the Scytheclaw Drake in MM2 would keep its claw attack, but Overwhelming attacker and Springing Step could gain the Mount Keyword. The HP could be along the ways of 12+Con mod.+8/level. As for defenses, let's say something along the lines of AC=19+half-level, Fort=16+half-level, Ref=18+half-level Will=15+half-level. Being medium sized, it would enable small sized humanoids to ride it (Halfling, Gnomes, Goblins, Kobolds, etc) Maybe increase it's size to large to enable medium humanoids to ride clawfoot, or medium humanoids ride other types of Dinos.

Rekko
#10
Alex_
Jul 23, 2009 10:51:04
Lets say you play a beast master ranger, and you manage to convince your DM to let you ride your lizard beast. Well, thats a lot nicer. Except, beast master rangers use strength and wisdom. Your bonus to dex/cha is totally wasted.

Just because you took the Beast Master option to get an Animal Companion doesn't mean you have to only take powers from the Beastmaster path. You can continue down the Archery path and use your Animal Companion to harass enemies, shield you from guys trying to get into melee, supplement your damage, and/or be your mount.

As mentioned in another thread, the whole mount/animal companion thing could easily be solved by a heroic tier feat that makes your non-flying mount large sized.

And/Or a "Bonded Mount" feat where you designate a single creature to advance as you level up. Part of the larger overall mounted combat feat chain for those who aren't Beastmaster Rangers.
#11
soyim
Jul 23, 2009 15:47:52 I whipped up a Ranger/Barbarian Hybrid that i liked quite a bit. Talenta Warrior at 1st level, Hybrid Talent for the Dinosaur at Second. The Clawfoot (Lizard) is excellent at sticking into the thick of things, and you can charge in with your Talenta Polearm/Howling Strike, and then retreat rather consistantly. Twin Strike with the boomerang, run back in- all the while the Dinosaur makes attacks of Op.

You can also make one as a Thaneborn Barbarian- your charimsa will come in handy there.

Or you can make one as a Beast Master ranger and focus on Ranged powers, or swallow your pride and buy the 18 strength and use your points to buy an ok dexterity. You'll be fragile- but halflings usually are.

Talenta Halflings are fine right now- they aren't optimal like a Half Orc Tracker or Valenar- but they are available in multiple delicious flavors of fun.
#12
josephkell
Jul 23, 2009 15:58:40 Impenetrable Barding?

Resist Damage equal to your level helps a lot I imagine.

Level 1 is upto 10. Level 11 is upto 20, level 21 is upto 30.
#13
bobiago
Jul 23, 2009 16:02:51 Offer your DM 10% of your XP to "level up" your mount
#14
w0nkothesane
Jul 23, 2009 16:13:46 Stats for the mounts in the ECG are laid out like monster stats. Next to the level, it gives you their monster type (skirmisher, brute, et cetera).

I would work out a system with your DM where you earn levels for your mount as you level. It would be unfair to the rest of your group to have their XP split up 6 ways to accommodate your mount instead of only 5 ways, so you might have to work out a system where either you earn slightly less XP, or else you make up for it some other way (gold comes to mind, to pay for training, grooming, and increased appetite for its growing dinosaur body).

Once you've worked out how you'll earn these levels, the leveling process is really simple. Just use the stats provided in the Dungeon Master Guide for modifying monsters to scale up its defenses, attack and damage bonuses, et cetera.

EDIT: Just looking at the stats for the carver, Clawfoot, and Fastieth. Just noticed that they're medium creatures and that only small characters can ride them. This, to me, says that they really need to be leveled up somehow with your character, rather than moving to higher level mounts with the "reptile" type and pretending it's the same creature.
#15
josephkell
Jul 23, 2009 16:41:39
Stats for the mounts in the ECG are laid out like monster stats. Next to the level, it gives you their monster type (skirmisher, brute, et cetera).

I would work out a system with your DM where you earn levels for your mount as you level. It would be unfair to the rest of your group to have their XP split up 6 ways to accommodate your mount instead of only 5 ways, so you might have to work out a system where either you earn slightly less XP, or else you make up for it some other way (gold comes to mind, to pay for training, grooming, and increased appetite for its growing dinosaur body).

Once you've worked out how you'll earn these levels, the leveling process is really simple. Just use the stats provided in the Dungeon Master Guide for modifying monsters to scale up its defenses, attack and damage bonuses, et cetera.

If I were to make a ruling, I would allow you to pay the difference in magic item cost each time you want to level it up.

And according to the DMG page 46, mounts just deduct their XP value from the encounter. So a Clawfoot for the PCs would take 150 xp from the rewards. However it also mentions relaxing that rule if the mount is more than 2 levels lower. Maybe only allow mounts to be leveled up if that leveling up doesn't bring the mount within 2 levels of the rider. So a level 7 Halfling could level up a Clawfoot to level 4.

Level 7 halfling has about 53 hp. a level 4 Clawfoot has 54?

Remember, monsters get awesome hp. Skirmishers get Con + 8*(Level +1) hp.
#16
polt
Jul 23, 2009 17:00:42 Just to elaborate on my perspective on this. The way I'd do this, as a GM, would be this.

Okay. You have a mount. You can ride, it's cool. If you don't abuse the fact that I've given you this mount, I'll let you use it and not have to worry about it dying all the time.

I wouldn't give it an AC or HP until I had a story purpose for it to be in danger, or die.

If they get in a fight, I'd have the creature getting hit. If the party is hit by a fireball, it'll get hurt.
And I'll describe it's wounds. Sometimes it might have to rest, not be able to carry the character. Describe the black wounds from the fireball, or the deep cut from the sword.
It needs healing. Go give it to it. And when it eats, and rests, and it gets treated. It heals.

I see no to come up with a bunch of rules.
#17
Ogiwan
Jul 25, 2009 20:55:16 I am also in support of this, as whatever could be applied to the dinosaur-riding Halfling can also be applied to the mounted Valenar warrior, or to the stereotypical knight-in-shining-armor.
#18
Aegeri
Jul 26, 2009 7:43:56
And according to the DMG page 46, mounts just deduct their XP value from the encounter. So a Clawfoot for the PCs would take 150 xp from the rewards. However it also mentions relaxing that rule if the mount is more than 2 levels lower. Maybe only allow mounts to be leveled up if that leveling up doesn't bring the mount within 2 levels of the rider. So a level 7 Halfling could level up a Clawfoot to level 4.

Mounts don't deduct their XP from the encounter if they don't have their own actions in combat actually. If they have to share actions with their rider, then they don't count towards the EXP budget. If they can act on their own (EG they have their own actions) they do count towards the EXP budget.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyber-Dave Jul 22, 2009 21:09:23	I'm trying to build a viable talanta halfling. What I want from this halfling is the ability to ride a clawfoot/carver and be viable through all levels of play. Right now, its impossible. Lets say I play a barbarian and take mounted combat. After level six you out-level your dinosaur. If you continue to ride it the chances of it dying every fight are very high. Its AC will be an easy hit. It wont have very many hit points to survive hits. Lets say you play a beast master ranger, and you manage to convince your DM to let you ride your lizard beast. Well, thats a lot nicer. Except, beast master rangers use strength and wisdom. Your bonus to dex/cha is totally wasted. Some sort of options that make playing a talanta halfling option that actually focuses on making the flavor of the talanta halfling (riding a dinosaur) viable REALLY needs to be released in DDi right now.
#2 Nived Jul 23, 2009 5:14:37	I don't have the Eberron Campaign Guide (yet should be arriving later today), but the solution I worked out with my DM was that I'd just trade up for more powerful reptile based mounts, so the stats would improve, I'd still spend the money for the mount, but it would still essentially be my same dinosaur. Draft lizard to start, eventually a rage drake, but those are just the stats, its still the same clawfoot my character raised on the plains. As for where the money goes, hand wave it or spend it on some sort of 'ritual'.
#3 polt Jul 23, 2009 5:51:02	If that's the character you want to play, and you don't abuse the fact that you got a mount, the DM should just let you have it and not kill it every combat.
#4 JohnLynch Jul 23, 2009 5:52:23	If that's the character you want to play, and you don't abuse the fact that you got a mount, the DM should just let you have it and not kill it every combat. Area affect attacks can be an issue though.
#5 AvonRekaes Jul 23, 2009 9:21:49	Maybe you can work out some Bonded Mount feat. Your mount gets a bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and all defenses equal to your highest ability modifier. When you mount it, it gains Temp HP equal to your... healing surge value? bloodied value? 4 x your level? that resets every short rest you spend with your mount.
#6 rekko Jul 23, 2009 9:30:16	One possibility is to MC into Ranger and switch Hunter's Quarry for a Beast Companion. If you take the Power-swap feats, you can also take Beast master ranger powers. Take the lizard beast, increase its size to large, damage to 1d10, but remove the opportunity attack +2 bonus. Maybe, when reaching certain levels (7, 12, 17, 22, 27) your mount can gain a special mount ability that can replace previous mount abilities it had. Mount abilities could include giving more AC to rider, more movement, make a special attack when charging, maybe knocking a target prone or even jumping, etc. Look at some drakes' abilities around those levels to inspire you and your DM. Second option would be to hybrid into Ranger. Another possibility would be to buy a drake of appropriate level and ride it. When a say buy, it doesn't necessary says you need to find your clawfoot at some marketplace, but you could have find it in the wilds and tame it, the money spent could represent paying some trainer, food, saddle, caretaker, etc.
#7 JohnLynch Jul 23, 2009 9:49:49	How was this handled in 3.5? Could rangers mount their animal companions (thus letting the mount to grow in power under the animal companion rules)? An alternative would be to use the DMG rules to periodically increase the mounts level. Although you'd need to be careful and ensure the latest version is comparable to mounts of a similar level.
#8 AvonRekaes Jul 23, 2009 9:54:41	3.5 was much less restrictive about mounts. Basically, any creature that was one size larger than you, if physically capable and willing, could be a mount. You could mount a Gray Render, for instance. It was very easy for small characters to get a mount as their animal companion.
#9 rekko Jul 23, 2009 10:36:35	We could create a Mount Template. The template could be given to beasts and magical beasts. The template would provide some HP per level, bonuses to Defenses, Saving Throws. The beast would keep its basic attacks, and its special attack would gain the Mount keyword, which means it needs to be mounted, and the PC need the Mounted Combat feat to use the ability. Example, the Scytheclaw Drake in MM2 would keep its claw attack, but Overwhelming attacker and Springing Step could gain the Mount Keyword. The HP could be along the ways of 12+Con mod.+8/level. As for defenses, let's say something along the lines of AC=19+half-level, Fort=16+half-level, Ref=18+half-level Will=15+half-level. Being medium sized, it would enable small sized humanoids to ride it (Halfling, Gnomes, Goblins, Kobolds, etc) Maybe increase it's size to large to enable medium humanoids to ride clawfoot, or medium humanoids ride other types of Dinos. Rekko
#10 Alex_ Jul 23, 2009 10:51:04	Lets say you play a beast master ranger, and you manage to convince your DM to let you ride your lizard beast. Well, thats a lot nicer. Except, beast master rangers use strength and wisdom. Your bonus to dex/cha is totally wasted. Just because you took the Beast Master option to get an Animal Companion doesn't mean you have to only take powers from the Beastmaster path. You can continue down the Archery path and use your Animal Companion to harass enemies, shield you from guys trying to get into melee, supplement your damage, and/or be your mount. As mentioned in another thread, the whole mount/animal companion thing could easily be solved by a heroic tier feat that makes your non-flying mount large sized. And/Or a "Bonded Mount" feat where you designate a single creature to advance as you level up. Part of the larger overall mounted combat feat chain for those who aren't Beastmaster Rangers.
#11 soyim Jul 23, 2009 15:47:52	I whipped up a Ranger/Barbarian Hybrid that i liked quite a bit. Talenta Warrior at 1st level, Hybrid Talent for the Dinosaur at Second. The Clawfoot (Lizard) is excellent at sticking into the thick of things, and you can charge in with your Talenta Polearm/Howling Strike, and then retreat rather consistantly. Twin Strike with the boomerang, run back in- all the while the Dinosaur makes attacks of Op. You can also make one as a Thaneborn Barbarian- your charimsa will come in handy there. Or you can make one as a Beast Master ranger and focus on Ranged powers, or swallow your pride and buy the 18 strength and use your points to buy an ok dexterity. You'll be fragile- but halflings usually are. Talenta Halflings are fine right now- they aren't optimal like a Half Orc Tracker or Valenar- but they are available in multiple delicious flavors of fun.
#12 josephkell Jul 23, 2009 15:58:40	Impenetrable Barding? Resist Damage equal to your level helps a lot I imagine. Level 1 is upto 10. Level 11 is upto 20, level 21 is upto 30.
#13 bobiago Jul 23, 2009 16:02:51	Offer your DM 10% of your XP to "level up" your mount
#14 w0nkothesane Jul 23, 2009 16:13:46	Stats for the mounts in the ECG are laid out like monster stats. Next to the level, it gives you their monster type (skirmisher, brute, et cetera). I would work out a system with your DM where you earn levels for your mount as you level. It would be unfair to the rest of your group to have their XP split up 6 ways to accommodate your mount instead of only 5 ways, so you might have to work out a system where either you earn slightly less XP, or else you make up for it some other way (gold comes to mind, to pay for training, grooming, and increased appetite for its growing dinosaur body). Once you've worked out how you'll earn these levels, the leveling process is really simple. Just use the stats provided in the Dungeon Master Guide for modifying monsters to scale up its defenses, attack and damage bonuses, et cetera. EDIT: Just looking at the stats for the carver, Clawfoot, and Fastieth. Just noticed that they're medium creatures and that only small characters can ride them. This, to me, says that they really need to be leveled up somehow with your character, rather than moving to higher level mounts with the "reptile" type and pretending it's the same creature.
#15 josephkell Jul 23, 2009 16:41:39	Stats for the mounts in the ECG are laid out like monster stats. Next to the level, it gives you their monster type (skirmisher, brute, et cetera). I would work out a system with your DM where you earn levels for your mount as you level. It would be unfair to the rest of your group to have their XP split up 6 ways to accommodate your mount instead of only 5 ways, so you might have to work out a system where either you earn slightly less XP, or else you make up for it some other way (gold comes to mind, to pay for training, grooming, and increased appetite for its growing dinosaur body). Once you've worked out how you'll earn these levels, the leveling process is really simple. Just use the stats provided in the Dungeon Master Guide for modifying monsters to scale up its defenses, attack and damage bonuses, et cetera. If I were to make a ruling, I would allow you to pay the difference in magic item cost each time you want to level it up. And according to the DMG page 46, mounts just deduct their XP value from the encounter. So a Clawfoot for the PCs would take 150 xp from the rewards. However it also mentions relaxing that rule if the mount is more than 2 levels lower. Maybe only allow mounts to be leveled up if that leveling up doesn't bring the mount within 2 levels of the rider. So a level 7 Halfling could level up a Clawfoot to level 4. Level 7 halfling has about 53 hp. a level 4 Clawfoot has 54? Remember, monsters get awesome hp. Skirmishers get Con + 8*(Level +1) hp.
#16 polt Jul 23, 2009 17:00:42	Just to elaborate on my perspective on this. The way I'd do this, as a GM, would be this. Okay. You have a mount. You can ride, it's cool. If you don't abuse the fact that I've given you this mount, I'll let you use it and not have to worry about it dying all the time. I wouldn't give it an AC or HP until I had a story purpose for it to be in danger, or die. If they get in a fight, I'd have the creature getting hit. If the party is hit by a fireball, it'll get hurt. And I'll describe it's wounds. Sometimes it might have to rest, not be able to carry the character. Describe the black wounds from the fireball, or the deep cut from the sword. It needs healing. Go give it to it. And when it eats, and rests, and it gets treated. It heals. I see no to come up with a bunch of rules.
#17 Ogiwan Jul 25, 2009 20:55:16	I am also in support of this, as whatever could be applied to the dinosaur-riding Halfling can also be applied to the mounted Valenar warrior, or to the stereotypical knight-in-shining-armor.
#18 Aegeri Jul 26, 2009 7:43:56	And according to the DMG page 46, mounts just deduct their XP value from the encounter. So a Clawfoot for the PCs would take 150 xp from the rewards. However it also mentions relaxing that rule if the mount is more than 2 levels lower. Maybe only allow mounts to be leveled up if that leveling up doesn't bring the mount within 2 levels of the rider. So a level 7 Halfling could level up a Clawfoot to level 4. Mounts don't deduct their XP from the encounter if they don't have their own actions in combat actually. If they have to share actions with their rider, then they don't count towards the EXP budget. If they can act on their own (EG they have their own actions) they do count towards the EXP budget.