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The Classic Dragon

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
malcaor
Mar 31, 2008 15:42:38 I really like the way Eberron has set the dragons as being an ancient race with arcane knowledge, but I'm not sure how the classic dragon fits into this. I like the whole studying the prophecy thing, but how to you use the good old classic dragon?
#2
Syltorian
Mar 31, 2008 18:27:06 Dragons of Eberron devotes some pages to describing rogue dragons, that is, dragons who have no interest in the Prophecy. Some are simply power-hungry or greedy, others have been born outside of Argonessen and don't know more of the Prophecy than most people do. The book also does a great job describing why the dragons of Argonessen have certain draconic traits, such as the tendency to hoard things.

But beyond that, with dragons, as with everything else, remember that there are exceptions. If you want a dragon who simply hoards coins and terrorises the countryside, go with it. He does not need more reason than a human tyrant, bully, criminal or whatever you can think of. He's simply smarter and tougher: greed, power, cruelty, low self-esteem, hatred of the lesser races, old grudges, or even the desire to protect something (and scare people away) are but a few reasons for a classic, hoarding, virgin-eating dragon. He could also have been cursed or possessed, or he could have lost his mind (under Tiamat's influence, perhaps), and been turned into a rampaging monster; perhaps he believes virgin sacrifices can turn him into a god (a bit like that dragon in Q'Barra does, although he does not seem to require princesses). Alternatively, maybe he is a test for adventurers; maybe the Prophecy requires it.

Overall, I would strongly recommend getting Dragons of Eberron. The above is merely my own brainstorming, but this book has some very interesting rogue dragons as well as information on the Prophecy-studying dragons, for all the continents.
#3
malcaor
Mar 31, 2008 18:50:37 Thank you that is helpful. I would definetly get that book, but I have no money =)

A rogue dragon is a pretty simple answer, should have thought of that.
#4
Nived
Apr 01, 2008 2:15:08 I think it was Player's Guide to Eberron that described rogue dragons as "Sometimes dragons just get that hungry."
#5
Arcane_Guyver
Apr 01, 2008 2:54:47 Heh, this topic kinda makes me want to try a "Dragon swoops in and kidnaps the princess - go forth and rescue her!" sort of plot. Of course, things won't be exactly the way they seem. Could use Kaius' niece who's slumming in Breland...
#6
Edymnion
Apr 01, 2008 8:07:35
I really like the way Eberron has set the dragons as being an ancient race with arcane knowledge, but I'm not sure how the classic dragon fits into this. I like the whole studying the prophecy thing, but how to you use the good old classic dragon?

Honestly, I don't.
I don't like the idea of rogue dragons just eating people for the hell of it in Eberron at all. You ever see a dragon in one of my Eberron games, and its going to be a big deal. You will *NEVER* find a dragon to fight just because "it was hungry".
#7
rauric
Apr 01, 2008 8:42:10 It can happen that way though, even if it is not the best story option. Dragons do live outside the hiearchy of the Conclave and the continent of dragons. Some have their own ideas about conquest, some just don't wish to be bothered and move to eat. If you want a random dragon fight you still can but you could also have the encounter mean something. The Cult of Tiamat is a good enemy for players plus no other dragon will confront the Cults dragons because it may bring Tiamat that much closer to being freed from her prison.
#8
Syltorian
Apr 01, 2008 9:56:02 I agree with Edy to a certain point; namely, that the dragon should not be a 'classic' dragon just "because it is hungry". That's just not fitting for something with draconic intelligence. I do believe it can act like a classic dragon, however, but its needs a good story - and a twist. The link to Tiamat and corruption by other Rajahs is a good possibility; here may be some others:

Perhaps a dragon seeking to emulate the Devourer and ascent to godhood believes in the Sahuagin idea that you can gain power by eating your opponents. This can be pure beings (the virgins of classical stories) or strong ones (the knights of the same stories), and in the latter case, it destroys the farming communities only to get its sacrifices to come to it. Also, the fear of the community may feed its power and help its eventual apotheosis (or so it believes); this should actually tie in with draconic religion.

Perhaps it was cursed, as I suggested above. It may have delved too deep into forbidden lore, it may have been in Cyre in 994. By now, it is not intelligent. It has lost its mind, reducing its Intelligence to something like 6 or even below, and it is no more than a powerful predator. It is still a dragon, biologically spoken, but mentally it's a beast. This could be developed into a tragic character, who has to be put down - or who can be helped if the curse is somehow lifted. Perhaps it still has family back in Argonessen who want the PCs to attempt a rescue; so you can still make this a unique creature with a tie to draconic culture.

Perhaps the dragon is guarding something important, and pesky humanoids keep coming back to colonise the area, not understanding the catastrophes they can bring about. So, the dragon is not eating them because it is hungry, it is simply getting rid of pests. It burns villages like humans burn nests of wasps that have established themselves on their property. And the PCs who manage to get rid of this 'classic' dragon will have to face the consequences... they've just helped to get a Rajah come so much closer to its release.

If the 'classic' dragon is out for sacrifices, rather than food and destruction, what does it do with them? Eat them, or gather specimens for magical experimentation? Perhaps it wants only aberrant marked characters handed over. Perhaps the victim is required for some later purpose in the Prophecy, and the dragon intends to teach it. Perhaps it tries to create a new race with arcane modifications.

So overall, the dragon acts like a 'classic dragon', though it actually is not such a creature. The PCs just need to find out why it acts in this manner. But I also agree that a dragon like this should be an important part of the campaign, not just an encounter to pass the time as you are travelling between Fairhaven and Passage or because it happens to be Wirday.
#9
Edymnion
Apr 02, 2008 20:21:53 Actually, let me amend that.
If you are ever playing in one of my games, and you see a "rogue dragon" thats just terrorizing the countryside, run. Run like your lives depended on it, because they do. I'm real big on Argonessa keeping fairly tight reigns on any dragon in Khovair. Long as they're laying low and staying out of sight, they're fairly safe. If they are rampaging and drawing attention to themselves, they're going to have a flight of draconic assassins coming after their asses.

And heaven help any squishy little humanoids that are still in the area when the dragon police show up to kick their ass...

So, even if there is a rogue dragon causing havok, the civilized dragons aren't far away, hope you don't get swept up in the matter (unless you just like the idea of playing a dragon slave campaign).
#10
mystrich
Apr 02, 2008 20:41:06 As said, rogue dragons (though I don't like them) work. A better way is through the Chamber. Sure they won't just appear and start attacking, but they would be more willing to get someone to help them. Have your adventurers find out that the goal they've been hired to do (maybe a dragon disguised as an employer needs to PCs to kill a wealthy noble, telling them that the man is corrupt and slaughtering the town he is in charge of. The PCs arrive and find him benevolent, and confront said employer, who admits she wanted to kill the man only to fulfill part of the prophesy she found. The PCs might attack, or she has to cover her tracks, and transforms to full dragon form during the fight. Or if they somehow found out she was a dragon, then she has to make sure they can't tell anyone and attacks).

Also, as stated in ECS, people who go farther than the shores of their continent, attract the attention of dragons, and may need to fight off a Dragon or two to proceed.
#11
dread_lord
Apr 06, 2008 15:10:23 I would suggest that if you want to use a dragon that way use a "dragon". If a small town is being harassed by what the people describe as a dragon, the beast is likely to be a wyvren, a hydra, or any number of dragon-like creatures.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 malcaor Mar 31, 2008 15:42:38	I really like the way Eberron has set the dragons as being an ancient race with arcane knowledge, but I'm not sure how the classic dragon fits into this. I like the whole studying the prophecy thing, but how to you use the good old classic dragon?
#2 Syltorian Mar 31, 2008 18:27:06	Dragons of Eberron devotes some pages to describing rogue dragons, that is, dragons who have no interest in the Prophecy. Some are simply power-hungry or greedy, others have been born outside of Argonessen and don't know more of the Prophecy than most people do. The book also does a great job describing why the dragons of Argonessen have certain draconic traits, such as the tendency to hoard things. But beyond that, with dragons, as with everything else, remember that there are exceptions. If you want a dragon who simply hoards coins and terrorises the countryside, go with it. He does not need more reason than a human tyrant, bully, criminal or whatever you can think of. He's simply smarter and tougher: greed, power, cruelty, low self-esteem, hatred of the lesser races, old grudges, or even the desire to protect something (and scare people away) are but a few reasons for a classic, hoarding, virgin-eating dragon. He could also have been cursed or possessed, or he could have lost his mind (under Tiamat's influence, perhaps), and been turned into a rampaging monster; perhaps he believes virgin sacrifices can turn him into a god (a bit like that dragon in Q'Barra does, although he does not seem to require princesses). Alternatively, maybe he is a test for adventurers; maybe the Prophecy requires it. Overall, I would strongly recommend getting Dragons of Eberron. The above is merely my own brainstorming, but this book has some very interesting rogue dragons as well as information on the Prophecy-studying dragons, for all the continents.
#3 malcaor Mar 31, 2008 18:50:37	Thank you that is helpful. I would definetly get that book, but I have no money =) A rogue dragon is a pretty simple answer, should have thought of that.
#4 Nived Apr 01, 2008 2:15:08	I think it was Player's Guide to Eberron that described rogue dragons as "Sometimes dragons just get that hungry."
#5 Arcane_Guyver Apr 01, 2008 2:54:47	Heh, this topic kinda makes me want to try a "Dragon swoops in and kidnaps the princess - go forth and rescue her!" sort of plot. Of course, things won't be exactly the way they seem. Could use Kaius' niece who's slumming in Breland...
#6 Edymnion Apr 01, 2008 8:07:35	I really like the way Eberron has set the dragons as being an ancient race with arcane knowledge, but I'm not sure how the classic dragon fits into this. I like the whole studying the prophecy thing, but how to you use the good old classic dragon? Honestly, I don't. I don't like the idea of rogue dragons just eating people for the hell of it in Eberron at all. You ever see a dragon in one of my Eberron games, and its going to be a big deal. You will NEVER find a dragon to fight just because "it was hungry".
#7 rauric Apr 01, 2008 8:42:10	It can happen that way though, even if it is not the best story option. Dragons do live outside the hiearchy of the Conclave and the continent of dragons. Some have their own ideas about conquest, some just don't wish to be bothered and move to eat. If you want a random dragon fight you still can but you could also have the encounter mean something. The Cult of Tiamat is a good enemy for players plus no other dragon will confront the Cults dragons because it may bring Tiamat that much closer to being freed from her prison.
#8 Syltorian Apr 01, 2008 9:56:02	I agree with Edy to a certain point; namely, that the dragon should not be a 'classic' dragon just "because it is hungry". That's just not fitting for something with draconic intelligence. I do believe it can act like a classic dragon, however, but its needs a good story - and a twist. The link to Tiamat and corruption by other Rajahs is a good possibility; here may be some others: Perhaps a dragon seeking to emulate the Devourer and ascent to godhood believes in the Sahuagin idea that you can gain power by eating your opponents. This can be pure beings (the virgins of classical stories) or strong ones (the knights of the same stories), and in the latter case, it destroys the farming communities only to get its sacrifices to come to it. Also, the fear of the community may feed its power and help its eventual apotheosis (or so it believes); this should actually tie in with draconic religion. Perhaps it was cursed, as I suggested above. It may have delved too deep into forbidden lore, it may have been in Cyre in 994. By now, it is not intelligent. It has lost its mind, reducing its Intelligence to something like 6 or even below, and it is no more than a powerful predator. It is still a dragon, biologically spoken, but mentally it's a beast. This could be developed into a tragic character, who has to be put down - or who can be helped if the curse is somehow lifted. Perhaps it still has family back in Argonessen who want the PCs to attempt a rescue; so you can still make this a unique creature with a tie to draconic culture. Perhaps the dragon is guarding something important, and pesky humanoids keep coming back to colonise the area, not understanding the catastrophes they can bring about. So, the dragon is not eating them because it is hungry, it is simply getting rid of pests. It burns villages like humans burn nests of wasps that have established themselves on their property. And the PCs who manage to get rid of this 'classic' dragon will have to face the consequences... they've just helped to get a Rajah come so much closer to its release. If the 'classic' dragon is out for sacrifices, rather than food and destruction, what does it do with them? Eat them, or gather specimens for magical experimentation? Perhaps it wants only aberrant marked characters handed over. Perhaps the victim is required for some later purpose in the Prophecy, and the dragon intends to teach it. Perhaps it tries to create a new race with arcane modifications. So overall, the dragon acts like a 'classic dragon', though it actually is not such a creature. The PCs just need to find out why it acts in this manner. But I also agree that a dragon like this should be an important part of the campaign, not just an encounter to pass the time as you are travelling between Fairhaven and Passage or because it happens to be Wirday.
#9 Edymnion Apr 02, 2008 20:21:53	Actually, let me amend that. If you are ever playing in one of my games, and you see a "rogue dragon" thats just terrorizing the countryside, run. Run like your lives depended on it, because they do. I'm real big on Argonessa keeping fairly tight reigns on any dragon in Khovair. Long as they're laying low and staying out of sight, they're fairly safe. If they are rampaging and drawing attention to themselves, they're going to have a flight of draconic assassins coming after their asses. And heaven help any squishy little humanoids that are still in the area when the dragon police show up to kick their ass... So, even if there is a rogue dragon causing havok, the civilized dragons aren't far away, hope you don't get swept up in the matter (unless you just like the idea of playing a dragon slave campaign).
#10 mystrich Apr 02, 2008 20:41:06	As said, rogue dragons (though I don't like them) work. A better way is through the Chamber. Sure they won't just appear and start attacking, but they would be more willing to get someone to help them. Have your adventurers find out that the goal they've been hired to do (maybe a dragon disguised as an employer needs to PCs to kill a wealthy noble, telling them that the man is corrupt and slaughtering the town he is in charge of. The PCs arrive and find him benevolent, and confront said employer, who admits she wanted to kill the man only to fulfill part of the prophesy she found. The PCs might attack, or she has to cover her tracks, and transforms to full dragon form during the fight. Or if they somehow found out she was a dragon, then she has to make sure they can't tell anyone and attacks). Also, as stated in ECS, people who go farther than the shores of their continent, attract the attention of dragons, and may need to fight off a Dragon or two to proceed.
#11 dread_lord Apr 06, 2008 15:10:23	I would suggest that if you want to use a dragon that way use a "dragon". If a small town is being harassed by what the people describe as a dragon, the beast is likely to be a wyvren, a hydra, or any number of dragon-like creatures.