The insulting nature of the current WotC books. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The insulting nature of the current WotC books.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Bruize
Mar 13, 2008 15:43:16 What are they thinking?

I took a look at the new Adventurer's Guide to Eberron sneak peak on the D&D site. I'm trully amazed that someone put this book together, thinking it would sell well. From what I've seen in the preview, there doesn't appear to be any new art to speak of, just lots of old art gathered together and layered. It's like they're planning a coffee table book. Even the fluff in the preview felt dilluted and intentionally vague. I realize we're on the verge of 4E here, but that's no excuse to skimp on content.

Yet another book I won't be buying. Add it to the list along with Races & Classes, as well as Worlds & Monsters. I'm as excited by the possibilities of 4E as the next rabid fan but come on, most of what I've seen lately is content that should have been in Dragon Magezine or posted as free web content. Instead they're trying to milk us for more money?

How insulting.
#2
the_ubbergeek
Mar 13, 2008 15:57:29 Collectors, anyone?
#3
Magicstar1
Mar 13, 2008 16:44:12 *puts up hand, collector? Reporting in.

Still I didn't buy but read both the 4th edition preview books and quite liked what they did with them, if I find them cheap I will definitely buy World and Monsters. Just for the art from it.

Same goes for the Adventurers guide, I worked my ass off to complete my collection of Eberron books because I'm a great fan of the setting. I see it as support for Wizards to continue publishing something I really like and giving me a ready tool to show others and get them warm for Eberron.
#4
Bruize
Mar 13, 2008 16:54:37 Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting the Eberron campaign. I have 95% of the books (never got around to picking up Dragons of Eberron, but have been looking for it at my local store). I just feel that if they're not going to put the effort into producing something with quality content, even if it's just fluff...I can't be bothered with buying it.
#5
Magicstar1
Mar 13, 2008 18:55:22 My guess is you and I weren't the main target for this book, we won't use it as a resource sine we have far superior ones. Instead Wizards tried to use the book and the great although for us old art to get more people enthusiastic for the game world known as Eberron. New people will just see all those shiny art and nice juicy albeit vague information.

So despite the lack of new fluff I will buy the book, even if I'm just going to use it to tell my parents what I'm doing.
#6
ieattrollsforbreakfast
Mar 13, 2008 19:34:45
It's like they're planning a coffee table book.

It is a coffee table book, that's been the story all along as far as I'm aware.

The key is that the book isn't targeted at current Eberron fans (like anyone posting on this board), it's targeted at people new to the setting who just want a quick overview. It's the sort of book I can imagine handing out to players who haven't played in an Eberron game before to skim while creating characters, or to take home to flick through in their spare time.

I won't be buying the book, I don't need it, but I don't begrudge WotC producing it. Yes, I'd prefer to have a release that was useful to me, but I can't blame WotC for targeting other players.
#7
toloran
Mar 13, 2008 19:38:36
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting the Eberron campaign. I have 95% of the books (never got around to picking up Dragons of Eberron, but have been looking for it at my local store). I just feel that if they're not going to put the effort into producing something with quality content, even if it's just fluff...I can't be bothered with buying it.

Here is a totally hypothetical situation that is in fact not all that hypothetical:

You are running a game in a Q'barran ruin of some sort. You are describing what it looks like but your players can't picture it (either because you aren't good at describing things or because your players have trouble picturing things they can't see). Then you pull out your artbook, flip to a page and say "It looks kind of like that."

Its a lot easier then flipping through a dozen odd some books to find the picture of what you need (this happens a lot when I am describing a lightning rail to a new eberron player). It is also good for people like me who likes to do custom artwork of scenery and airships and like to have a good idea of what something looks like.

So yeah, it isn't useful for everyone but there are quite a few people who would want to buy it anyway.
#8
Amaril
Mar 13, 2008 21:32:11 *ahem*
If you’re a fan of fantasy artwork and literature, the An Adventurer's Guide to Eberron makes an excellent addition to your library or coffee table. It brings the world of Eberron to life visually and gives non-Eberron players a glimpse into a rich world of magic and mystery.

#9
Arcane_Guyver
Mar 13, 2008 22:38:36 There's no reason to get angry over this release. It's a pretty good idea, as WotC is sort of putting Eberron on the backburner during the initial run of 4e releases.
#10
Nived
Mar 14, 2008 0:21:34 You know for a long long time people have complained that the Eberron Campaign Setting and the Players Guide to Eberron aren't "For players" because they spell out and talk about the 'big secrets' of the setting in detail.

Well finally here's a book that doesn't, its just a short primer, and I'm not surprised to see people complain.

Reminds me of something a greek guy named Aesop said some 3,000 some odd years ago in a neat little fable called the Miller, his son, and their ass. "You can't please everyone."
#11
ekomega
Mar 14, 2008 3:16:54
...
Well finally here's a book that doesn't, its just a short primer, and I'm not surprised to see people complain.

From the Preview, it clearly does do this. In a section about the Inspired, it clearly goes into the relationship with Riedra and the Quori. I'm not sure what else they have spoiled.

Now, your friends who don't even play DnD with you can know the deepest, darkest, most important secret in the campaign setting by looking at a coffee table book. They don't even need to burrow through the ECS.

That is incredibly lame. They might as well make posters included in every book that say "Riedra is secretly ruled by the Quori, and they are evil!" and "Erandis d'Vol lives in the Lhazaar Principalities, and is a half-dragon lich with the dragonmark of Death!" so you can just show them to the players when they ask any questions.

Otherwise, they might find the secrets in a freakin' coffee table book.
#12
Nived
Mar 14, 2008 12:28:17 The nature of the Quori and their relationship with Riedra is known to every single Kalashtar and humn from Adar, it would be niegh impossible to write anything about one of the PC races of the world without bringing up that little 'secret'.
#13
eehamburg
Mar 14, 2008 15:29:35 Last that I checked, the book is written for those who are not familiar with Eberron. If you are familiar with Eberron then the book is not for you. It is to open new audiences and not to cater to the audience that exists. So ... chill out.
#14
skrap-san
Mar 15, 2008 3:36:27
The nature of the Quori and their relationship with Riedra is known to every single Kalashtar and humn from Adar, it would be niegh impossible to write anything about one of the PC races of the world without bringing up that little 'secret'.

My thoughts exactly. Besides, more often than not a sneak peak behind the curtains of the world helps people develop a great or at least a better story. besides I need a book for those of my friends that wants to know about eberron, but don't have the time to read 14 source books.
#15
Arcane_Guyver
Mar 15, 2008 6:12:08 It's pretty difficult to describe the kalashtar to somebody without bringing up the Inspired. That said, I still find it depressing that the kalashtar are always overshadowed by the Inspired in just about every book other than RoE.

OTOH, if this newbie guide even drops a hint at a certain king being somewhat vampiric, there will be call for shouting "WTF?"
#16
Ogiwan
Mar 17, 2008 10:00:45 Well, looking at the previews.....there's no new art, so I definitely understand where the OP is coming from.
#17
smacintush
Mar 17, 2008 13:14:17 I really don't understand having hostility toward a company for creating a book you don't like.

I could understand being disappointed if this were a core book or campaign setting that was full of filler and nonsense, but that's not the case here.

I could also understand if this were being sold somehow without letting you preview it at all, that is, if we were being told that it was one thing and it turned out to be another. That would be something to complain about, but that's not the case either.

Getting upset about it or disgusted by it is just utterly senseless. They aren't trying to railroad anyone, they are simply creating a product to sell. They aren't coming to your door pushing it on you. They aren't putting things in the book that are required to play. It's just another book.

Now, explain to me why one should be insulted over a book for sale. Really, I must be weird because I just don't get it. If you are insulted then that is on YOU. That is YOUR PROBLEM because there is nothing to be insulted by here.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really not anymore complicated than that.

Wasting forum space with senseless whining isn't helping anyone.
#18
Shiftkitty
Mar 17, 2008 15:02:54 I tend to see some people who have to buy every new book that comes out as walking to the bookstore, eyes rolled up into their heads, arms outstretched zombie-like, shuffling their feet as they walk, mouths drooling and moaning in monotone "mussssst buyyyyy newwwww booooooook, mussssst buyyyyy newwwww booooooook". Even if you don't buy it, if you don't like it, what's the need to come out guns-a-blazing? Just put it back, roll your eyes, and move on with your life. If some should ask, just tell them your opinion. Otherwise, let them discover and judge on their own.
#19
lonestranger
Mar 18, 2008 18:14:08 I thumbed through a copy of the book at the local game store to see what it was like and found what is essentially a quick and dirty guide to the world. And it looks fantastic in that respect, but no it's not a book for any of the long standing contributors to the Eberron board which isn't a bad thing.

I think some of the conversations will now go like...

GM: Alright I wanted to start an Eberron campaign today.
Player: Eberron? Wait...huh?
GM: Read *Hands the dumbfounded sod his copy of The Adventurer's Guide to Eberron*

Think of it as a companion piece to the book they made for the history of Forgotten Realms, only for a realm that doesn't put that much of a burden on it's heroes. (but that is a discussion for another thread).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Bruize Mar 13, 2008 15:43:16	What are they thinking? I took a look at the new Adventurer's Guide to Eberron sneak peak on the D&D site. I'm trully amazed that someone put this book together, thinking it would sell well. From what I've seen in the preview, there doesn't appear to be any new art to speak of, just lots of old art gathered together and layered. It's like they're planning a coffee table book. Even the fluff in the preview felt dilluted and intentionally vague. I realize we're on the verge of 4E here, but that's no excuse to skimp on content. Yet another book I won't be buying. Add it to the list along with Races & Classes, as well as Worlds & Monsters. I'm as excited by the possibilities of 4E as the next rabid fan but come on, most of what I've seen lately is content that should have been in Dragon Magezine or posted as free web content. Instead they're trying to milk us for more money? How insulting.
#2 the_ubbergeek Mar 13, 2008 15:57:29	Collectors, anyone?
#3 Magicstar1 Mar 13, 2008 16:44:12	*puts up hand, collector? Reporting in. Still I didn't buy but read both the 4th edition preview books and quite liked what they did with them, if I find them cheap I will definitely buy World and Monsters. Just for the art from it. Same goes for the Adventurers guide, I worked my ass off to complete my collection of Eberron books because I'm a great fan of the setting. I see it as support for Wizards to continue publishing something I really like and giving me a ready tool to show others and get them warm for Eberron.
#4 Bruize Mar 13, 2008 16:54:37	Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting the Eberron campaign. I have 95% of the books (never got around to picking up Dragons of Eberron, but have been looking for it at my local store). I just feel that if they're not going to put the effort into producing something with quality content, even if it's just fluff...I can't be bothered with buying it.
#5 Magicstar1 Mar 13, 2008 18:55:22	My guess is you and I weren't the main target for this book, we won't use it as a resource sine we have far superior ones. Instead Wizards tried to use the book and the great although for us old art to get more people enthusiastic for the game world known as Eberron. New people will just see all those shiny art and nice juicy albeit vague information. So despite the lack of new fluff I will buy the book, even if I'm just going to use it to tell my parents what I'm doing.
#6 ieattrollsforbreakfast Mar 13, 2008 19:34:45	It's like they're planning a coffee table book. It is a coffee table book, that's been the story all along as far as I'm aware. The key is that the book isn't targeted at current Eberron fans (like anyone posting on this board), it's targeted at people new to the setting who just want a quick overview. It's the sort of book I can imagine handing out to players who haven't played in an Eberron game before to skim while creating characters, or to take home to flick through in their spare time. I won't be buying the book, I don't need it, but I don't begrudge WotC producing it. Yes, I'd prefer to have a release that was useful to me, but I can't blame WotC for targeting other players.
#7 toloran Mar 13, 2008 19:38:36	Don't get me wrong, I'm all for supporting the Eberron campaign. I have 95% of the books (never got around to picking up Dragons of Eberron, but have been looking for it at my local store). I just feel that if they're not going to put the effort into producing something with quality content, even if it's just fluff...I can't be bothered with buying it. Here is a totally hypothetical situation that is in fact not all that hypothetical: You are running a game in a Q'barran ruin of some sort. You are describing what it looks like but your players can't picture it (either because you aren't good at describing things or because your players have trouble picturing things they can't see). Then you pull out your artbook, flip to a page and say "It looks kind of like that." Its a lot easier then flipping through a dozen odd some books to find the picture of what you need (this happens a lot when I am describing a lightning rail to a new eberron player). It is also good for people like me who likes to do custom artwork of scenery and airships and like to have a good idea of what something looks like. So yeah, it isn't useful for everyone but there are quite a few people who would want to buy it anyway.
#8 Amaril Mar 13, 2008 21:32:11	ahem If you’re a fan of fantasy artwork and literature, the An Adventurer's Guide to Eberron makes an excellent addition to your library or coffee table. It brings the world of Eberron to life visually and gives non-Eberron players a glimpse into a rich world of magic and mystery.
#9 Arcane_Guyver Mar 13, 2008 22:38:36	There's no reason to get angry over this release. It's a pretty good idea, as WotC is sort of putting Eberron on the backburner during the initial run of 4e releases.
#10 Nived Mar 14, 2008 0:21:34	You know for a long long time people have complained that the Eberron Campaign Setting and the Players Guide to Eberron aren't "For players" because they spell out and talk about the 'big secrets' of the setting in detail. Well finally here's a book that doesn't, its just a short primer, and I'm not surprised to see people complain. Reminds me of something a greek guy named Aesop said some 3,000 some odd years ago in a neat little fable called the Miller, his son, and their ass. "You can't please everyone."
#11 ekomega Mar 14, 2008 3:16:54	... Well finally here's a book that doesn't, its just a short primer, and I'm not surprised to see people complain. From the Preview, it clearly does do this. In a section about the Inspired, it clearly goes into the relationship with Riedra and the Quori. I'm not sure what else they have spoiled. Now, your friends who don't even play DnD with you can know the deepest, darkest, most important secret in the campaign setting by looking at a coffee table book. They don't even need to burrow through the ECS. That is incredibly lame. They might as well make posters included in every book that say "Riedra is secretly ruled by the Quori, and they are evil!" and "Erandis d'Vol lives in the Lhazaar Principalities, and is a half-dragon lich with the dragonmark of Death!" so you can just show them to the players when they ask any questions. Otherwise, they might find the secrets in a freakin' coffee table book.
#12 Nived Mar 14, 2008 12:28:17	The nature of the Quori and their relationship with Riedra is known to every single Kalashtar and humn from Adar, it would be niegh impossible to write anything about one of the PC races of the world without bringing up that little 'secret'.
#13 eehamburg Mar 14, 2008 15:29:35	Last that I checked, the book is written for those who are not familiar with Eberron. If you are familiar with Eberron then the book is not for you. It is to open new audiences and not to cater to the audience that exists. So ... chill out.
#14 skrap-san Mar 15, 2008 3:36:27	The nature of the Quori and their relationship with Riedra is known to every single Kalashtar and humn from Adar, it would be niegh impossible to write anything about one of the PC races of the world without bringing up that little 'secret'. My thoughts exactly. Besides, more often than not a sneak peak behind the curtains of the world helps people develop a great or at least a better story. besides I need a book for those of my friends that wants to know about eberron, but don't have the time to read 14 source books.
#15 Arcane_Guyver Mar 15, 2008 6:12:08	It's pretty difficult to describe the kalashtar to somebody without bringing up the Inspired. That said, I still find it depressing that the kalashtar are always overshadowed by the Inspired in just about every book other than RoE. OTOH, if this newbie guide even drops a hint at a certain king being somewhat vampiric, there will be call for shouting "WTF?"
#16 Ogiwan Mar 17, 2008 10:00:45	Well, looking at the previews.....there's no new art, so I definitely understand where the OP is coming from.
#17 smacintush Mar 17, 2008 13:14:17	I really don't understand having hostility toward a company for creating a book you don't like. I could understand being disappointed if this were a core book or campaign setting that was full of filler and nonsense, but that's not the case here. I could also understand if this were being sold somehow without letting you preview it at all, that is, if we were being told that it was one thing and it turned out to be another. That would be something to complain about, but that's not the case either. Getting upset about it or disgusted by it is just utterly senseless. They aren't trying to railroad anyone, they are simply creating a product to sell. They aren't coming to your door pushing it on you. They aren't putting things in the book that are required to play. It's just another book. Now, explain to me why one should be insulted over a book for sale. Really, I must be weird because I just don't get it. If you are insulted then that is on YOU. That is YOUR PROBLEM because there is nothing to be insulted by here. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really not anymore complicated than that. Wasting forum space with senseless whining isn't helping anyone.
#18 Shiftkitty Mar 17, 2008 15:02:54	I tend to see some people who have to buy every new book that comes out as walking to the bookstore, eyes rolled up into their heads, arms outstretched zombie-like, shuffling their feet as they walk, mouths drooling and moaning in monotone "mussssst buyyyyy newwwww booooooook, mussssst buyyyyy newwwww booooooook". Even if you don't buy it, if you don't like it, what's the need to come out guns-a-blazing? Just put it back, roll your eyes, and move on with your life. If some should ask, just tell them your opinion. Otherwise, let them discover and judge on their own.
#19 lonestranger Mar 18, 2008 18:14:08	I thumbed through a copy of the book at the local game store to see what it was like and found what is essentially a quick and dirty guide to the world. And it looks fantastic in that respect, but no it's not a book for any of the long standing contributors to the Eberron board which isn't a bad thing. I think some of the conversations will now go like... GM: Alright I wanted to start an Eberron campaign today. Player: Eberron? Wait...huh? GM: Read Hands the dumbfounded sod his copy of The Adventurer's Guide to Eberron Think of it as a companion piece to the book they made for the history of Forgotten Realms, only for a realm that doesn't put that much of a burden on it's heroes. (but that is a discussion for another thread).