The Original Warforged - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The Original Warforged

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Bobfred21
Apr 09, 2008 19:20:01 I already posted this in the character development forum but I thought here might garner a better response.

Suddenly an idea has occurred to me, but it's not fully fleshed out, that's where all of you come in! The idea for the character is a warforged that was created on Xen'drik as one of the original Warforged thousands of years ago. I can't remember if they were created by the Quori or the giants though, any help with this?

Also, I was thinking that at some point house Cannith would have discovered him on Xen'drik (likely inert by this time) and brought to house Cannith where he was used to backwards engineer the entire Warforged race.

Now, ideally I'd like to have a few more plot hooks for the DM to deal with, I'm thinking I'm going to go with partial memory loss, possibly as a result of the work house Cannith did on him before he was able to escape. He'd probably have patchy memory, he'd remember certain names, faces might have certain emotions tied to them, nothing specific in my mind yet. He'd also, of course have vague memories of Xen'drik and the whatever war he took part in there.

How would you roleplay this guy? How does he fit into the "Warforged problem" in Eberron? Obviously he's going to have some issues trying to find himself and his role in Warforged society, but what sets him apart from other Warforged in that he is one of the progenitor warforged, even if he may not know it at the start of the game.
#2
Edymnion
Apr 09, 2008 20:00:27 Officially, the Warforged were created as an early form of empty vessel by the Quori, to escape the turning of the age.
#3
RedRider
Apr 12, 2008 13:39:11 Though I think other civilisations were able to copy the methods for their own means.

Certainly the Drow have been able to build warforged scorpions, and I'm fairly sure the giants made warforged soldiers of their own.

Though note the Quori-forged don't really have their own personalities. They were just vessels for
Show
docents, which were originally intended to house quori spirits who wanted to survive the turning of the age. Since docents don't appear to be sentient, it seems this plan failed.
#4
Gurv
Apr 12, 2008 16:35:18
Officially, the Warforged were created as an early form of empty vessel by the Quori, to escape the turning of the age.

Wasn't there something about it being the giants who came up with the idea and the quori stole the concept and tried to use it?
#5
Edymnion
Apr 12, 2008 17:18:22 I don't recall, there was some back and forth.
I personally prefer the idea that they were giant creations first, and then later adapted by the Quori, whatever the official answer is.

Warforged do not dream, they do not sleep, what better soldier for a war against dream beings?
#6
kerd
Apr 12, 2008 21:30:17 Well, this is one mystery of the Scenario. No one really know HOW Merrix d' Cannith (the Old, not the Junior) discovered the way to make the Warforged.

So, all theories could be false, anyways...

Correct me if I said something wrong.
#7
fabius_maximus
Apr 13, 2008 8:18:42
I don't recall, there was some back and forth.
I personally prefer the idea that they were giant creations first, and then later adapted by the Quori, whatever the official answer is.

Warforged do not dream, they do not sleep, what better soldier for a war against dream beings?

That can be turned around. The giants somehow could have discovered how to give sentience to the Quorforged. Given the vast arcane knowledge of the giants, it seems to be much more sensible to me to adapt an existing design than to come up with something entirely new in a short measure of time.

@RedRider: We know of at least one docent that worked according to plan.
#8
Edymnion
Apr 13, 2008 19:51:06
That can be turned around. The giants somehow could have discovered how to give sentience to the Quorforged. Given the vast arcane knowledge of the giants, it seems to be much more sensible to me to adapt an existing design than to come up with something entirely new in a short measure of time.

That works both ways though, if not more in the favor of the giants being the original builders.

The invading quori of the time were the desperate ones, with the giants being the ones with all the massive magical resources. It makes just as much sense for the Quori to harness a giant weapon and convert it into a storage medium as it is for the quori to invent the warforged from scratch.
#9
fabius_maximus
Apr 14, 2008 7:35:19
That works both ways though, if not more in the favor of the giants being the original builders.

The invading quori of the time were the desperate ones, with the giants being the ones with all the massive magical resources. It makes just as much sense for the Quori to harness a giant weapon and convert it into a storage medium as it is for the quori to invent the warforged from scratch.

Maybe, but the Quorforged are quite crude designs. They look like prototypes.

Well, we'll probably never know until someone tries the C-14 method on them. ;)
#10
naturax
Apr 14, 2008 9:17:42
Maybe, but the Quorforged are quite crude designs. They look like prototypes.

Well, we'll probably never know until someone tries the C-14 method on them. ;)

I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd.
#11
revvecor
Apr 14, 2008 10:03:17
I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd.

Don't forget that one of the Drow groups in Xen'drik made scorpion warforged that have at least some intelligence, and that they based there creature through there limited knowledge of "Giant" creation forges.
#12
fabius_maximus
Apr 15, 2008 6:32:37
I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd.

Well, you know, there was this whole quori affair first, and then the elves rebelled, and then the dragons effectivly destroyed the continent...

Events like these can disrupt your work schedule. ;)
#13
RedRider
Apr 16, 2008 9:43:11
I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd.

Well, just because the giants didn't do it the way Cannith managed to doesn't mean Cannith are all-round better.
Maybe the Giants got their intelligent and loyal construct soldiers without all the troublesome emotions and rebellion-rousing problems Cannith have had.

Cannith may have just explored a different avenue or progress, and lucked out by having a good few construst making geniuses born into the right generation.

I remember a while back, people were talking about the Gnomes and stealing Elemental binding from the Drow. (Questions like "Why don't the Drow have airships" arose.)

Keith Baker put in a point that while the gnomes stole the basic idea from the drow, they have put their own work into the concepts and gone in different directions. The comparison he made was discovering an ancient nuclear reactor, reverse engineering it and having cold fusion within a few generations.

And in both cases, the Canniths and the Zil have the advantage of the historically unprecidented Dragonmarks. Perhaps it is the influence of the Mark of Making that makes today's warforged so different.
#14
naturax
Apr 16, 2008 10:06:32
Well, just because the giants didn't do it the way Cannith managed to doesn't mean Cannith are all-round better.
Maybe the Giants got their intelligent and loyal construct soldiers without all the troublesome emotions and rebellion-rousing problems Cannith have had.

Cannith may have just explored a different avenue or progress, and lucked out by having a good few construst making geniuses born into the right generation.

I remember a while back, people were talking about the Gnomes and stealing Elemental binding from the Drow. (Questions like "Why don't the Drow have airships" arose.)

Keith Baker put in a point that while the gnomes stole the basic idea from the drow, they have put their own work into the concepts and gone in different directions. The comparison he made was discovering an ancient nuclear reactor, reverse engineering it and having cold fusion within a few generations.

And in both cases, the Canniths and the Zil have the advantage of the historically unprecidented Dragonmarks. Perhaps it is the influence of the Mark of Making that makes today's warforged so different.

Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it.
#15
Gurv
Apr 16, 2008 13:50:36
Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it.

I would say that it's the dragonmark that made it possible. The giants are superior in all aspects of artifice, but they can't use a power they don't have. Creating life isn't something that can be accomplished with mere skill as an artificer.

Dragonmarks are much more than magical tattoos. They're bound to the same forces of creation responsible for birthing the world. Don't underestimate them, even if most only see them for the everyday abilities they grant.
#16
lord_tirian
Apr 16, 2008 21:24:00
Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it.

Perhaps it's because giants are beings on a different scale - sure, they ARE better at arcane magic. But perhaps it takes longer than a human, meaning under the pressure of the Quori attack, they couldn't show their true craftsmanship - because they were too slow to work efficiently under pressure.

Not saying that Cannith is doing the same faster, but rather that Cannith was able to work on it without the imminent threat of obliteration.

Cheers, LT.
#17
Edymnion
Apr 16, 2008 21:55:20
Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it.

Two things:

1) How do we know the giants didn't do better than we did? For all we know, there are people walking the streets of Sharn that are actually millenia old warforged that are every bit the look and sound and feel of an elf. Heck, we know
Show
Lei is some kind of warforged/construct
#18
Loki5654
Apr 18, 2008 14:16:34
3) Who ever said that House Cannith created the modern Warforged? If they were original Quori inventions, can you be 100% sure that the guy that "invented" them this time around wasn't being posessed? Ever see the episode of Futurama where Mom throws the master switch on all the robots to "Take Over the World"? There is always the question about where WF souls come from. You wanna bet your life against the possibility that they're all Quori sleeper agents, waiting for the signal to awaken and subdue everything? Maybe thats the reason for the Mourning, someone realized that the Warforged are actually quori spirits being bound into physical bodies (without the need for a docent this time around), and decided the only way to stave off the next invasion was to destroy the Warforged production areas, aka Cyre. Sure, Merrix d'Cannith is still making Warforged, so is the Lord of Blades. One is a weak fleshy human with a weak fleshy body that is oh so easy to posess, the other is one of your agents you've already activated that is gathering the troops. And that Warforged in your party? Yeah, he seems all friendly now, just wait until his true personality is re-activated though. Destroy all humans indeed!

Um...guh...buh...uh...

I'm speechless in the face of that awesomeness...
#19
fabius_maximus
Apr 19, 2008 8:37:09 I like it too. It sounds awfully like 'Order 66' (or was it 33?).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Bobfred21 Apr 09, 2008 19:20:01	I already posted this in the character development forum but I thought here might garner a better response. Suddenly an idea has occurred to me, but it's not fully fleshed out, that's where all of you come in! The idea for the character is a warforged that was created on Xen'drik as one of the original Warforged thousands of years ago. I can't remember if they were created by the Quori or the giants though, any help with this? Also, I was thinking that at some point house Cannith would have discovered him on Xen'drik (likely inert by this time) and brought to house Cannith where he was used to backwards engineer the entire Warforged race. Now, ideally I'd like to have a few more plot hooks for the DM to deal with, I'm thinking I'm going to go with partial memory loss, possibly as a result of the work house Cannith did on him before he was able to escape. He'd probably have patchy memory, he'd remember certain names, faces might have certain emotions tied to them, nothing specific in my mind yet. He'd also, of course have vague memories of Xen'drik and the whatever war he took part in there. How would you roleplay this guy? How does he fit into the "Warforged problem" in Eberron? Obviously he's going to have some issues trying to find himself and his role in Warforged society, but what sets him apart from other Warforged in that he is one of the progenitor warforged, even if he may not know it at the start of the game.
#2 Edymnion Apr 09, 2008 20:00:27	Officially, the Warforged were created as an early form of empty vessel by the Quori, to escape the turning of the age.
#3 RedRider Apr 12, 2008 13:39:11	Though I think other civilisations were able to copy the methods for their own means. Certainly the Drow have been able to build warforged scorpions, and I'm fairly sure the giants made warforged soldiers of their own. Though note the Quori-forged don't really have their own personalities. They were just vessels for Show docents, which were originally intended to house quori spirits who wanted to survive the turning of the age. Since docents don't appear to be sentient, it seems this plan failed.
#4 Gurv Apr 12, 2008 16:35:18	Officially, the Warforged were created as an early form of empty vessel by the Quori, to escape the turning of the age. Wasn't there something about it being the giants who came up with the idea and the quori stole the concept and tried to use it?
#5 Edymnion Apr 12, 2008 17:18:22	I don't recall, there was some back and forth. I personally prefer the idea that they were giant creations first, and then later adapted by the Quori, whatever the official answer is. Warforged do not dream, they do not sleep, what better soldier for a war against dream beings?
#6 kerd Apr 12, 2008 21:30:17	Well, this is one mystery of the Scenario. No one really know HOW Merrix d' Cannith (the Old, not the Junior) discovered the way to make the Warforged. So, all theories could be false, anyways... Correct me if I said something wrong.
#7 fabius_maximus Apr 13, 2008 8:18:42	I don't recall, there was some back and forth. I personally prefer the idea that they were giant creations first, and then later adapted by the Quori, whatever the official answer is. Warforged do not dream, they do not sleep, what better soldier for a war against dream beings? That can be turned around. The giants somehow could have discovered how to give sentience to the Quorforged. Given the vast arcane knowledge of the giants, it seems to be much more sensible to me to adapt an existing design than to come up with something entirely new in a short measure of time. @RedRider: We know of at least one docent that worked according to plan.
#8 Edymnion Apr 13, 2008 19:51:06	That can be turned around. The giants somehow could have discovered how to give sentience to the Quorforged. Given the vast arcane knowledge of the giants, it seems to be much more sensible to me to adapt an existing design than to come up with something entirely new in a short measure of time. That works both ways though, if not more in the favor of the giants being the original builders. The invading quori of the time were the desperate ones, with the giants being the ones with all the massive magical resources. It makes just as much sense for the Quori to harness a giant weapon and convert it into a storage medium as it is for the quori to invent the warforged from scratch.
#9 fabius_maximus Apr 14, 2008 7:35:19	That works both ways though, if not more in the favor of the giants being the original builders. The invading quori of the time were the desperate ones, with the giants being the ones with all the massive magical resources. It makes just as much sense for the Quori to harness a giant weapon and convert it into a storage medium as it is for the quori to invent the warforged from scratch. Maybe, but the Quorforged are quite crude designs. They look like prototypes. Well, we'll probably never know until someone tries the C-14 method on them. ;)
#10 naturax Apr 14, 2008 9:17:42	Maybe, but the Quorforged are quite crude designs. They look like prototypes. Well, we'll probably never know until someone tries the C-14 method on them. ;) I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd.
#11 revvecor Apr 14, 2008 10:03:17	I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd. Don't forget that one of the Drow groups in Xen'drik made scorpion warforged that have at least some intelligence, and that they based there creature through there limited knowledge of "Giant" creation forges.
#12 fabius_maximus Apr 15, 2008 6:32:37	I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd. Well, you know, there was this whole quori affair first, and then the elves rebelled, and then the dragons effectivly destroyed the continent... Events like these can disrupt your work schedule. ;)
#13 RedRider Apr 16, 2008 9:43:11	I always thought that aspect was out-of-control RIDICULOUS. The idea that the giants had unparalleled arcane talent, yet they were outdone by House Cannith with regards to warforged creation is completely absurd. Well, just because the giants didn't do it the way Cannith managed to doesn't mean Cannith are all-round better. Maybe the Giants got their intelligent and loyal construct soldiers without all the troublesome emotions and rebellion-rousing problems Cannith have had. Cannith may have just explored a different avenue or progress, and lucked out by having a good few construst making geniuses born into the right generation. I remember a while back, people were talking about the Gnomes and stealing Elemental binding from the Drow. (Questions like "Why don't the Drow have airships" arose.) Keith Baker put in a point that while the gnomes stole the basic idea from the drow, they have put their own work into the concepts and gone in different directions. The comparison he made was discovering an ancient nuclear reactor, reverse engineering it and having cold fusion within a few generations. And in both cases, the Canniths and the Zil have the advantage of the historically unprecidented Dragonmarks. Perhaps it is the influence of the Mark of Making that makes today's warforged so different.
#14 naturax Apr 16, 2008 10:06:32	Well, just because the giants didn't do it the way Cannith managed to doesn't mean Cannith are all-round better. Maybe the Giants got their intelligent and loyal construct soldiers without all the troublesome emotions and rebellion-rousing problems Cannith have had. Cannith may have just explored a different avenue or progress, and lucked out by having a good few construst making geniuses born into the right generation. I remember a while back, people were talking about the Gnomes and stealing Elemental binding from the Drow. (Questions like "Why don't the Drow have airships" arose.) Keith Baker put in a point that while the gnomes stole the basic idea from the drow, they have put their own work into the concepts and gone in different directions. The comparison he made was discovering an ancient nuclear reactor, reverse engineering it and having cold fusion within a few generations. And in both cases, the Canniths and the Zil have the advantage of the historically unprecidented Dragonmarks. Perhaps it is the influence of the Mark of Making that makes today's warforged so different. Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it.
#15 Gurv Apr 16, 2008 13:50:36	Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it. I would say that it's the dragonmark that made it possible. The giants are superior in all aspects of artifice, but they can't use a power they don't have. Creating life isn't something that can be accomplished with mere skill as an artificer. Dragonmarks are much more than magical tattoos. They're bound to the same forces of creation responsible for birthing the world. Don't underestimate them, even if most only see them for the everyday abilities they grant.
#16 lord_tirian Apr 16, 2008 21:24:00	Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it. Perhaps it's because giants are beings on a different scale - sure, they ARE better at arcane magic. But perhaps it takes longer than a human, meaning under the pressure of the Quori attack, they couldn't show their true craftsmanship - because they were too slow to work efficiently under pressure. Not saying that Cannith is doing the same faster, but rather that Cannith was able to work on it without the imminent threat of obliteration. Cheers, LT.
#17 Edymnion Apr 16, 2008 21:55:20	Basically what you're saying is that, for whatever reason (dragonmarks, exceptional minds, etc.) Cannith was able to out-do the giants in the field of artifice/arcane invention. I just don't buy it. Two things: 1) How do we know the giants didn't do better than we did? For all we know, there are people walking the streets of Sharn that are actually millenia old warforged that are every bit the look and sound and feel of an elf. Heck, we know Show Lei is some kind of warforged/construct
#18 Loki5654 Apr 18, 2008 14:16:34	3) Who ever said that House Cannith created the modern Warforged? If they were original Quori inventions, can you be 100% sure that the guy that "invented" them this time around wasn't being posessed? Ever see the episode of Futurama where Mom throws the master switch on all the robots to "Take Over the World"? There is always the question about where WF souls come from. You wanna bet your life against the possibility that they're all Quori sleeper agents, waiting for the signal to awaken and subdue everything? Maybe thats the reason for the Mourning, someone realized that the Warforged are actually quori spirits being bound into physical bodies (without the need for a docent this time around), and decided the only way to stave off the next invasion was to destroy the Warforged production areas, aka Cyre. Sure, Merrix d'Cannith is still making Warforged, so is the Lord of Blades. One is a weak fleshy human with a weak fleshy body that is oh so easy to posess, the other is one of your agents you've already activated that is gathering the troops. And that Warforged in your party? Yeah, he seems all friendly now, just wait until his true personality is re-activated though. Destroy all humans indeed! Um...guh...buh...uh... I'm speechless in the face of that awesomeness...
#19 fabius_maximus Apr 19, 2008 8:37:09	I like it too. It sounds awfully like 'Order 66' (or was it 33?).