Though Onatar was the patron of House Cannith, many craftsmen secretly worshipped The Traveller, calling for inspiration to spark ever greater inventions.
While The Traveller does also bring unintended consequences in his wake, you can certainly make the case that all improvement is change, even if not all change is improvement.
The Traveller is ultimately about change, favouring neither side of the moral compass. I guess that's why the Traveller is quite a popular deity, good, bad or otherwise. Aside from those that wish to stagnate and keep the present fixed (see The Dreaming Dark), most people like the idea of change.
Heck that would make the Dreaming Dark in fact a great opponent for someone who worships the traveller. Rather than the "I am a cleric of the god of light, so darkness is my foe" cliche, "I am a cleric of the god of change, so stagnation and immutablility is my foe".
The two must be constantly at each other in the shadows, fighting between rigid order and free-flowing chaos :P .
The Traveler, on the other hand, is a deity of innovation. DON'T keep making swords. Come up with something the world has never seen. Something that will make swords obsolete forever.
This could be a purely positive thing. It could have terrible consequences. Or it could be both - terrifying even though it is positive.
In our world, look to, say, the nuclear bomb. Development of nuclear weapons completely changed the face of warfare. We now have it in our power to destroy the world. There's positive aspects to this, and absolutely horrifying aspects, and there's no way to go back now.
Look to the supercolider that could ignite the atmosphere. Is the innovation worth the risk? The follower of Onatar would say absolutely not. Play it safe. Do what you know and do the best you can. The follower of the Traveler believes that change is vital - that there may be risks, but it is how we evolved as individuals, as cultures, as species.
So... "Beware the gifts of the Traveler." Not because they are traps or tricks. But because change can have unforseen consequences. Go in with your eyes open. Be prepared. And hope that the positive results outweigh the negative.
But yes, I think you could certainly have a good character who sees the Traveler as a positive force.
Hell, Traveler clerics, being worshipers of change and innovation, would be the MOST likely to simply alter their scripture on a whim and develop a new way of worshiping and believing in the Traveler. Last week the local clergymen thought inventing something, then immediately destroying it, was the best way to worship the Traveler; this week, they think the best way is to invent something that changes all of society; next week, they think that the best way is to burn society to the ground so that it can rebuild itself bigger and better, instead of depending on the old infrastructure.
So you want to play a good Traveler follower? The simplest path is to just say "In the purest form of believing in the Traveler's innovation, he decided to create his own unique form of worshiping the Traveler"
Though to me, there IS a 'pure' way of worshiping The Traveler. To me, The Traveler could in the real world be best embodied by the kyil khor of Vajrayana Buddhism: It is an intricate, painstaking form of sand art that the monk will spend weeks crafting and perfecting for his meditation. And when he's done, he will destroy it, leaving nothing behind. It's supposed to be a lesson on impermanence.
If you met a highly devout Traveler cleric in my game, he would likely be doing that exact thing: spending years inventing a better sword, as Hellcow said above--and then when he had done it, made the best sword design in the world capable of revolutionizing war, the cleric in my game would throw the sword back into his forge to watch it melt, and start working on a new project. He might not even tell people of his invention--it's the domain of the Traveler to invent, after all, not mass produce.
But yeah. I think mixing and matching these ideas is the best way.
For that matter, if we were to examine Buddhists a little closer for this context... we would see that Buddhists tend to be rather innovative and like to try new things. There was recently an uproar in China where people were furious that they saw one Buddhist monk skateboarding. They didn't understand that a contemporary monk does many modern activities; it's not just allowed, it's supported by their teachings. Personally, I think of buddhists as Good-aligned characters, because I've never met a devout one who wasn't excessively nice and generous--so to me, it's entirely possible to 'go against the grain' and 'be innovative and learn and do new things and even cause an uproar through your uniqueness' like the Traveler would support, and still be Good and not at all Chaotic.
Using innovation, trying new things, inventing things... it can all be merely a practice to get you into the state of mind of impermanence, as the Vajrayana buddhists do, or as our skateboarding monk does, but it doesn't at all mean you're chaotic or neutral, and in fact you can be really lawful and good, all while maintaining the ever-changing nature of life in mind.
...I guess I didn't really answer the question at all, but I really wanted to just discuss a few interesting thoughts and let you provide your own conclusions, about how change and innovation and even a bit of chaos don't have to conflict with good and peace and self-improvement.
I think that, since all clerics depend on scripture and preachings from their teachers to know about their deity (that is, the gods do not walk amongst mortals, so nobody really knows what the Traveler is TRULY like--it's all myths and legends), it's entirely possible for a cleric to say "I think this scripture is wrong. I think The Traveler would want us to behave a different way altogether."
Technically, this is true of all Eberron deities. The Rusheme giants of Xen'drik worship Arawai, but they don't do so in the same manner as a priest of the Host in the great Pavilion in Sharn.
Of course one trick is that the Traveler is the deity who IS said to walk the world - that's the main reason it's actually called "The Traveler", because any traveler you meet might actually be THE Traveler, hence "beware the gifts of the traveler". For some, that's a reason to fear strangers. For others, a reason to treat them with respect, to see what you can learn from them.
In my campaign, the most active worshippers of the Traveler are doppelgangers and changelings who wander the world, playing the role OF the Traveler - that is, wandering the world in different guises and bringing change to people's lives. Because to me, one of the goals of the priest is to serve the community. In the case of Arawai, this may mean ensuring a fertile harvest. In the case of Aureon, it's tending to matters of law, educating, maintaining order. Boldrei offers comfort and settles disputes. in the case of the Traveler, serving the community means making it face change. Keeping it from stagnating. Making sure that both individuals and the society as a whole are constantly facing new challenges - things that will cause them to learn and evolve. The reason the Traveler gets put among the Dark Six is because this often means breaking down existing systems, and sowing discord - because the relationship that survives that strife will be stronger than the one that was never tested. The Traveler often causes chaos - but that chaos may result in a stronger order. Of course, it may not... and that's the risk.
This actually comes up in my Dreaming Dark novels, in relation to the Mourning. In The Gates of Night, there's a bit where a pair of Cannith artificers imply that they know who caused the Mourning. People always ask me "How can you say that when you're never going to give us the answer? How is that fair?" The point is that they don't know who actually caused it. They know the ROOT cause. They are Traveler cultists, and if you read between the lines, they are saying that the Traveler caused the Mourning. He may have done it by inspiring someone to build a weapon, by freeing a rajah, or whatever theory you like. It's simply that they think the Traveler set it in motion. Because the Mourning is going to change everything. And this is what makes the Traveler terrifying to the common person. In the end, the Mourning will bring an end to a war. It will change the way people look at magic. It will give rise to dozens of new cults. It will break the hierarchies of dragonmarked houses. And it will also kill hundreds of thousands of people. That's change. It can be as simple as a shape in sand blowing away in the wind, as shocking as the loss of a country, as momentous as the creation of a new form of life with the warforged. It may make you stronger, it may ruin your life, it may kill you. At the end of the day, it's not about YOU; you're just one more grain of sand.
With that in mind, looking to the khil kyor... in my campaign, the Cabinet of Face does exactly this... but they do it WITH PEOPLE. A group of changelings may spend years creating an elaborate social balance. That favorite tavern your adventurers hang out in between every adventure, including the old bartender with his tales of past adventures; the Cannith excoriate who's always pushing new devices him wants them to try, or asking them to look for exotic components; the Cyran noblewoman who hires them to help her restore her lost family fortunes, who finds love with one of the adventurers, who marries him, hoping that they can rebuild the honor of her family together... and then one day it's gone. All of it. The bar is abandoned. Every patron vanished. Just like the sand blown away. Why did they do it? Was there even a purpose? Or were they just creating something - setting a temporary order on chaos - and seeing what happens when that order falls away?
But again, the point is that a thousand different priests of the Traveler may all behave in different ways. ESPECIALLY with the Traveler, the innovative artisan and the wandering trickster may both feel that the Traveler guides their actions but feel no need to follow some sort of preset doctrine.
So... "Beware the gifts of the Traveler." Not because they are traps or tricks. But because change can have unforseen consequences. Go in with your eyes open. Be prepared. And hope that the positive results outweigh the negative.
But yes, I think you could certainly have a good character who sees the Traveler as a positive force.
A friend of mine once said that the traveller is basically loki with a different name. I disagreed, said it reminds me more of Odin. That quote is a big reason why.
the more I read this thread, the more I think the comparison is both powerful and valid.
I think that, since all clerics depend on scripture and preachings from their teachers to know about their deity (that is, the gods do not walk amongst mortals, so nobody really knows what the Traveler is TRULY like--it's all myths and legends), it's entirely possible for a cleric to say "I think this scripture is wrong. I think The Traveler would want us to behave a different way altogether."
Technically, this is true of all Eberron deities. The Rusheme giants of Xen'drik worship Arawai, but they don't do so in the same manner as a priest of the Host in the great Pavilion in Sharn.
Of course one trick is that the Traveler is the deity who IS said to walk the world - that's the main reason it's actually called "The Traveler", because any traveler you meet might actually be THE Traveler, hence "beware the gifts of the traveler". For some, that's a reason to fear strangers. For others, a reason to treat them with respect, to see what you can learn from them.
In my campaign, the most active worshippers of the Traveler are doppelgangers and changelings who wander the world, playing the role OF the Traveler - that is, wandering the world in different guises and bringing change to people's lives. Because to me, one of the goals of the priest is to serve the community. In the case of Arawai, this may mean ensuring a fertile harvest. In the case of Aureon, it's tending to matters of law, educating, maintaining order. Boldrei offers comfort and settles disputes. in the case of the Traveler, serving the community means making it face change. Keeping it from stagnating. Making sure that both individuals and the society as a whole are constantly facing new challenges - things that will cause them to learn and evolve. The reason the Traveler gets put among the Dark Six is because this often means breaking down existing systems, and sowing discord - because the relationship that survives that strife will be stronger than the one that was never tested. The Traveler often causes chaos - but that chaos may result in a stronger order. Of course, it may not... and that's the risk.
This actually comes up in my Dreaming Dark novels, in relation to the Mourning. In The Gates of Night, there's a bit where a pair of Cannith artificers imply that they know who caused the Mourning. People always ask me "How can you say that when you're never going to give us the answer? How is that fair?" The point is that they don't know who actually caused it. They know the ROOT cause. They are Traveler cultists, and if you read between the lines, they are saying that the Traveler caused the Mourning. He may have done it by inspiring someone to build a weapon, by freeing a rajah, or whatever theory you like. It's simply that they think the Traveler set it in motion. Because the Mourning is going to change everything. And this is what makes the Traveler terrifying to the common person. In the end, the Mourning will bring an end to a war. It will change the way people look at magic. It will give rise to dozens of new cults. It will break the hierarchies of dragonmarked houses. And it will also kill hundreds of thousands of people. That's change. It can be as simple as a shape in sand blowing away in the wind, as shocking as the loss of a country, as momentous as the creation of a new form of life with the warforged. It may make you stronger, it may ruin your life, it may kill you. At the end of the day, it's not about YOU; you're just one more grain of sand.
With that in mind, looking to the khil kyor... in my campaign, the Cabinet of Face does exactly this... but they do it WITH PEOPLE. A group of changelings may spend years creating an elaborate social balance. That favorite tavern your adventurers hang out in between every adventure, including the old bartender with his tales of past adventures; the Cannith excoriate who's always pushing new devices him wants them to try, or asking them to look for exotic components; the Cyran noblewoman who hires them to help her restore her lost family fortunes, who finds love with one of the adventurers, who marries him, hoping that they can rebuild the honor of her family together... and then one day it's gone. All of it. The bar is abandoned. Every patron vanished. Just like the sand blown away. Why did they do it? Was there even a purpose? Or were they just creating something - setting a temporary order on chaos - and seeing what happens when that order falls away?
But again, the point is that a thousand different priests of the Traveler may all behave in different ways. ESPECIALLY with the Traveler, the innovative artisan and the wandering trickster may both feel that the Traveler guides their actions but feel no need to follow some sort of preset doctrine.
quoted in full because it's fricken awesome. Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
seriously, though, your post is enlightening. It makes me even more eager for the current campaign I'm in to end so we can start an eberron campaign. :P
Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
Huh. I never noticed until now that I'd never reset my signature on the new forums.
I'm Keith Baker. As for what I've done (for Eberron)...
Sourcebooks
Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), Sharn: City of Towers, Races of Eberron, Dragonmarked, Player's Guide To Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, City of Stormreach, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragons of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Guide (4E)
Adventures
Shadows of the Last War, Steel Shadows (Print Dungeon), Fallen Angel (Print Dungeon), The Delirium Stone (RPGA), Khyber's Harvest (4E)
Articles
Online - Dragonshards (online, too many to list); Backdrop: Graywall
Print Dungeon/Dragon: Eternal Evil; Touched By Madness; Living Nightmares; Dreadhold; The Umbragen; The Ring of Storms
Novels & Short Stories
The Dreaming Dark (City of Towers; The Shattered Land; The Gates of Night); Thorn of Breland (The Queen of Stone; Son of Khyber); "Principles of Fire" (in Dragons: Worlds Afire); "Shadows of Stormreach" (online); "Death at Whitehearth" (in Tales of the Last War)
I *think* that covers it.
Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
Huh. I never noticed until now that I'd never reset my signature on the new forums.
I'm Keith Baker. As for what I've done (for Eberron)...
Sourcebooks
Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), Sharn: City of Towers, Races of Eberron, Dragonmarked, Player's Guide To Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, City of Stormreach, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragons of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Guide (4E)
Adventures
Shadows of the Last War, Steel Shadows (Print Dungeon), Fallen Angel (Print Dungeon), The Delirium Stone (RPGA), Khyber's Harvest (4E)
Articles
Online - Dragonshards (online, too many to list); Backdrop: Graywall
Print Dungeon/Dragon: Eternal Evil; Touched By Madness; Living Nightmares; Dreadhold; The Umbragen; The Ring of Storms
Novels & Short Stories
The Dreaming Dark (City of Towers; The Shattered Land; The Gates of Night); Thorn of Breland (The Queen of Stone; Son of Khyber); "Principles of Fire" (in Dragons: Worlds Afire); "Shadows of Stormreach" (online); "Death at Whitehearth" (in Tales of the Last War)
I *think* that covers it.
NOT even close Hellcow.
Your presence here on the forums has clarified Eberron immensely for me, and (i think) many hundreds of others of fans and users of the setting. Your posts (even when they conflict with MY Eberron) always help me figure how to envision a more complete world.
Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
Huh. I never noticed until now that I'd never reset my signature on the new forums.
I'm Keith Baker. As for what I've done (for Eberron)...
Sourcebooks
Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), Sharn: City of Towers, Races of Eberron, Dragonmarked, Player's Guide To Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, City of Stormreach, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragons of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Guide (4E)
Adventures
Shadows of the Last War, Steel Shadows (Print Dungeon), Fallen Angel (Print Dungeon), The Delirium Stone (RPGA), Khyber's Harvest (4E)
Articles
Online - Dragonshards (online, too many to list); Backdrop: Graywall
Print Dungeon/Dragon: Eternal Evil; Touched By Madness; Living Nightmares; Dreadhold; The Umbragen; The Ring of Storms
Novels & Short Stories
The Dreaming Dark (City of Towers; The Shattered Land; The Gates of Night); Thorn of Breland (The Queen of Stone; Son of Khyber); "Principles of Fire" (in Dragons: Worlds Afire); "Shadows of Stormreach" (online); "Death at Whitehearth" (in Tales of the Last War)
I *think* that covers it.
Wow. I'm actually a huge fan of you. lol.
I got into Eberron when I started playing DDO a couple years ago, and have been immensely fascinated ever since. You've done some amazing things with that setting, and in turn inspired one of the best MMOs in existence(imo).
Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
Huh. I never noticed until now that I'd never reset my signature on the new forums.
I'm Keith Baker. As for what I've done (for Eberron)...
Sourcebooks
Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), Sharn: City of Towers, Races of Eberron, Dragonmarked, Player's Guide To Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, City of Stormreach, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragons of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Guide (4E)
Adventures
Shadows of the Last War, Steel Shadows (Print Dungeon), Fallen Angel (Print Dungeon), The Delirium Stone (RPGA), Khyber's Harvest (4E)
Articles
Online - Dragonshards (online, too many to list); Backdrop: Graywall
Print Dungeon/Dragon: Eternal Evil; Touched By Madness; Living Nightmares; Dreadhold; The Umbragen; The Ring of Storms
Novels & Short Stories
The Dreaming Dark (City of Towers; The Shattered Land; The Gates of Night); Thorn of Breland (The Queen of Stone; Son of Khyber); "Principles of Fire" (in Dragons: Worlds Afire); "Shadows of Stormreach" (online); "Death at Whitehearth" (in Tales of the Last War)
I *think* that covers it.
You missed the Eberron Comic Book!
In 4e, while the Host as a group is considered good, 5 of the 9 individual deities are unaligned. The Traveller is also unaligned.
For that reason, it seems likely to me that at least some Vassals might fail to make a huge distinction between the worship of Onatar and the Traveller on moral grounds. They might not openly admit it, but I'd bet that quite a few silent prayers to the Traveller are made in the workshops of those who at least nominally worship the Sovereign Host.
It hasn't come up in play yet and may never do so, but in my current game I'm running a Cannith Cleric of the Sovereign Host who regards the Traveller with a considerable degree of reverence, if not quite actual worship. He realizes there's a certain amount of doctrinal conflict involved, but it's really hard for a member of that particular House to feel disparagingly about a deity linked with innovation. (And I love that a character like this is possible to even consider without running afoul of all sorts of "you can't do that" game rules... Eberron has best take on religion of any setting ever by a factor of about infinity.)
He is an Artificer but also a Deva as in he "regenerates" like a Timelord. He also uses Tuning Fork implements to cast spels, as vibrational tools and to use infusions..IE Sonic Screwdriver.
the Traveller could be a D&D version of the Last Timelord aka The Doctor,
the Mourning could mirror The Doctor ending the TimeWar by taking the unthinkable option but the only one that would end the war.
My character is a Tharashk Dragonmarked Heir Human Assassin/Avenger(covenent agent build) who worships The Traveller, and is Good aligned. He believes that change is the greatest force for the good of all the races, and that The Traveller is, essentially, an agent of the natural order, and that that is why It is part of the Dark Six. Not because It's evil. My character doesn't believe that most of the Dark Six are really evil, in a practical application of the word, simply that most of them are forces which work against the ends of the Host, by being natural forces with no regard for civilization.
The Traveller(and Change) is, in his estimation, just as necessary for the survival of the world as volcanic eruptions, storms, changing seasons or any other of a host of sometimes destructive natural phenomenon. Because of that, change is something to be blessed when it doesn't bring everything down around your head, and calmly accepted with it does. You don't curse The Fury when a storm destroys your house. You accept it as a natural part of life, and hope it doesn't happen again, and that you still get good rain for your crops next season. Same kind of thing with The Traveller.
This faith was very helpful for my character immediately after the Mourning. Most of his closest friends, and some of his relatives, were in the battle(from the ECG adventure), while he was completing an assignment just far enough away that he escaped death. He also rather liked Cyre, even though his unit of The Liondrake's Roar was fighting for the other side at that time. For a time, he didn't know how to handle the aftermath of the Mourning. Right after the Mourning, nothing changed. They all kept fighting. It wasn't until Kaius sued for peace that he finally saw that change was coming, and took heart.
Meanwhile, he began to come to a belief that would change how he viewed the Traveller, and the world. Since childhood, he had been interested in the Prophecy. After all, it was written on his face and those of many of his relatives and close friends(/distant cousins). It informed, in some way, his entire life. So, he studied it, whenever he got the chance. (here, my group's dislike for insisting that a character with a low int score isn't intelligent comes into play, because I couldn't afford to have a good int and still be combat effective.) With his training in discerning the truth of things, and his natural knack for "thinking around corners", he made better progress than most humans his age could have, but still had relatively little true understanding(like most people who study the Prophecy).
Then he joined The Liondrake's Roar, in a spec ops/counter intel unit. He specialized in infiltration, and rooting out spies, traitors, etc. His unit was often hired to find a leak, spy, whathaveyou, track them down and discretely extract them. Other times, they were hired to gain unnoticed access to some fortress or the like, obtain something/someone/take out a target and get the hell out without raising an alarm.
One of the non Tharashk members of the unit, and my character's mentor for a time, was an Aerenal Elf(haven't come up with a name, yet) with the Mark of Shadow, who had taken a leave from the Cairdal Blades, where he was some kind of officer, to further hone his skills, and potentially recruit Shadow Marked elves to come back to Aerenal, and serve their people properly. He was also a student of the Prophecy, since childhood, following in his father's footsteps, and he was 230 years old. He taught my character as much as he could about the Prophecy, stealth, misdirection and the sword. The most striking lesson was that the Prophecy is not set in stone, but is rather somewhat nebulous. It can be changed, and each pronouncement simply represents an option, a single possibility, which happens to be the most likely outcome as it's spoken.
It took a few more years of discussion, study and contemplation, but eventually he came to the conclusion that The Traveller is, in some way, The Prophecy. Or at least, a major agent, and part, of the Prophecy.
So now he's an agent of change, and of the Prophecy, Believing that both serve the Traveller, and in the end, the good of Eberron.
As an example, he recently travelled through New Cyre, and when he left he owed 350 platinum, with interest, to House Kundurak, and is now held personally responsable, by the Prince of New Cyre and House Tharashk, for the wellbeing of 30 Cyran orphans. Because he sent them to work/apprentice in various places with House Tharashk, at his own expense.
Unlike many other followers of The Traveller, he believes that those who travel should sometimes not only cause change, but guide the results of that change, particularly as that change concerns the Prophecy, which may turn out to be the greatest work of The Traveller.
In a way, you could say every new era that comes along could involve the subtle works of The Traveller. Maybe it was the one who taught Ourelonastrix magic (or brought him to the one who taught the dragon magic), it may have alerted the dragons regarding the elven rebellion on Xen'drik, may have released the daelkyr, caused strife between the scions of the Five Nations that led to the Last War, on and on and on.
In short, as The Traveller moves along, a new era dawns. It's not always pleasant, but hey, "Beware the gifts of The Traveller."
Which author are you? which books did you write? lol I've been wanting to read some eberron recently, anyway.
Huh. I never noticed until now that I'd never reset my signature on the new forums.
I'm Keith Baker. As for what I've done (for Eberron)...
Sourcebooks
Eberron Campaign Setting (3.5), Sharn: City of Towers, Races of Eberron, Dragonmarked, Player's Guide To Eberron, Secrets of Xen'drik, City of Stormreach, Secrets of Sarlona, Dragons of Eberron, Eberron Campaign Guide (4E)
Adventures
Shadows of the Last War, Steel Shadows (Print Dungeon), Fallen Angel (Print Dungeon), The Delirium Stone (RPGA), Khyber's Harvest (4E)
Articles
Online - Dragonshards (online, too many to list); Backdrop: Graywall
Print Dungeon/Dragon: Eternal Evil; Touched By Madness; Living Nightmares; Dreadhold; The Umbragen; The Ring of Storms
Novels & Short Stories
The Dreaming Dark (City of Towers; The Shattered Land; The Gates of Night); Thorn of Breland (The Queen of Stone; Son of Khyber); "Principles of Fire" (in Dragons: Worlds Afire); "Shadows of Stormreach" (online); "Death at Whitehearth" (in Tales of the Last War)
I *think* that covers it.
NOT even close Hellcow.
Your presence here on the forums has clarified Eberron immensely for me, and (i think) many hundreds of others of fans and users of the setting. Your posts (even when they conflict with MY Eberron) always help me figure how to envision a more complete world.
You forgot your comic Eye of the Wolf!