Think Eberron Player's Guide might have warforged scouts as a race? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Think Eberron Player's Guide might have warforged scouts as a race?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Jay_Ibero_911
May 14, 2009 1:14:48 With the book coming out next month, obviously it will have warforged and artificer information...but I'm curious as to what else may be in it...we already got shifters from PHB2, though there will probably be some more racial feats and paragon path options...Changelings/Dopplegangers may show up...and there were the Kalashtar too...
#2
Tharag_Bocc
May 14, 2009 2:48:59 I'd love to see the return of the warforged scout (small sized warforged, for those not in the know), but I'm not going to hold my breath.
#3
joni-san
May 14, 2009 12:49:28
I'd love to see the return of the warforged scout (small sized warforged, for those not in the know), but I'm not going to hold my breath.

This.
#4
Nived
May 14, 2009 15:56:33 I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either.
#5
fey_feline
May 14, 2009 16:57:38
I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either.

Daelkyr-Halfblood needs to be in this book.
Mostly because I need it.
#6
Alex_
May 14, 2009 17:15:37
I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either.

What's up with people and the Daelky half-blood? I never knew it was so popular.
#7
Nived
May 14, 2009 17:19:32 Because really its the only other 'race' that is purely Eberron that's not a variation on another race, like the Warforged Scouts or the Psiforged. Its the 'fifth' Eberron race, never very loved easily overlooked, but hey he was around.

Had a buddy create a DHB sorcerer who used Alter Self constantly... by the rules of 3.5 alter self he could change himself into other aberrations of his HD or lower, he combed through books for various creatures he could use for flight or burrowing (because you gained their movement abilities). Powergaming? Sure. Muchkin? Maybe a little, but it was a very interesting character.
#8
fey_feline
May 15, 2009 10:01:25
What's up with people and the Daelky half-blood? I never knew it was so popular.

The fun thing?
IO've never played 3E.
I got a crapload of Eberron Sourcebooks for my birthday, and I really liked Magic of Eberron.
#9
lyran
May 15, 2009 14:58:43 Not at all. The Warforged scouts were never extremey popular. Your more likely to see Dealkyr Half-bloods or Psiforged than a Warforged scout (because that is what the majority wants). It would be nice if they keep Warforged customization feats like Mithrel Body. Who knows maybe there will be a warforged feat that makes you a scout. (If they don't then maybe I'll make that! ;))
#10
AvonRekaes
May 15, 2009 15:32:23
Daelkyr-Halfblood needs to be in this book.
Mostly because I need it.

Might I humbly direct you here?

I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat)
#11
Talae
May 15, 2009 16:12:01 Couldn't you just change the size of the warforged? I say that without remembering exactly what the difference was, other than being smaller.
#12
AvonRekaes
May 15, 2009 16:41:23 I'd probably do this, yeah. Maybe knock either the Warforged's Strength or Con into Dex.

I'm not sure what powerlevel being Small occupies in 4th edition. I know it limits your weapon options. It seems like a general debuff then. You might want to give them a small bonus on top of it.

Looking at Goblins, they have a racial +1 to Reflex defense, despite having two ability score bonii in scores that apply to separate defenses, including Reflex. So they basically get a double-shot of buffing to Reflex.

Maybe you could keep the Scout's warforged ability bonii the same, but add "Scout Reflexes" and give them a bump to Reflex defense.
#13
lyran
May 15, 2009 16:55:06
Might I humbly direct you here?

I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat)

To any one is intrested in a Dealkyr Half-blood, click on this! Great work AvonRekaes!

I'd probably do this, yeah. Maybe knock either the Warforged's Strength or Con into Dex.

I'm not sure what powerlevel being Small occupies in 4th edition. I know it limits your weapon options. It seems like a general debuff then. You might want to give them a small bonus on top of it.

Looking at Goblins, they have a racial +1 to Reflex defense, despite having two ability score bonii in scores that apply to separate defenses, including Reflex. So they basically get a double-shot of buffing to Reflex.

Maybe you could keep the Scout's warforged ability bonii the same, but add "Scout Reflexes" and give them a bump to Reflex defense.

Sounds good to me. Although I still like my idea of some sort of cutomization feat.
#14
Talae
May 15, 2009 18:14:05 You could actually combine those two ideas and make a Warforged feat that gives +1 Reflex defense and small size.
#15
That_Blasted_Somoflange
May 15, 2009 18:38:21
You could actually combine those two ideas and make a Warforged feat that gives +1 Reflex defense and small size.

So if I Retrain the feat I instantly grow in size? Or if I take the feat at 12th level, I shrink?

No, the best option is to make it an feature that can't be changed. Really, just giving the warforged small size works well enough for me to represent the warforged scout. Why can't they be just as strong and tough, just smaller?
#16
rauric
May 15, 2009 18:54:25 There is no tradeoff then. The small size limits there weapon choices. The smaller races seem to have great defensive encounter (racial) abilities. THe bonus to ref is nice but perhaps they get a better temp hp than their larger cousins.
#17
lyran
May 16, 2009 20:06:10
So if I Retrain the feat I instantly grow in size? Or if I take the feat at 12th level, I shrink?

No, the best option is to make it an feature that can't be changed. Really, just giving the warforged small size works well enough for me to represent the warforged scout. Why can't they be just as strong and tough, just smaller?

Just make it a feat that can only be taken at first level and can't be retrained.
#18
RedRider
May 16, 2009 20:28:51 I don't expect to see it in the EPG (And if they cut the Kalashtar to do so, I'd be annoyed) but perhaps we'll see it in MM2 or MM3?
Possibly as a Dragon article maybe?
#19
need_a_life
May 23, 2009 0:04:03 How about using Warforged stats, saying that it's small and call it a scout?

It wouldn't make a difference mechanically, so no issue there, and according to the holy fluff of the Eberron setting Warforged scouts did exist (though their racial traits seemed ill-conceived [No Darkvision for 24/7 scouts?]), so everything should be fine.

In many cases, I find that filing the serial numbers off a piece of mechanic works best.
#20
fey_feline
May 23, 2009 19:04:03
Might I humbly direct you here?

I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat)

Woah, thanks!
#21
AvonRekaes
May 23, 2009 21:41:22 :D No problem! Glad you like it. :D
#22
jim_darkmagic_fanboy_dup
May 24, 2009 2:42:02 Couldn't you just take the Warforged, make it small, give it a DEX bonus, eliminate one of the big 'forge's stat bonuses and call it a day?

Not a perfect fit but definitely cool.
#23
AvonRekaes
May 24, 2009 13:01:55
Couldn't you just take the Warforged, make it small, give it a DEX bonus, eliminate one of the big 'forge's stat bonuses and call it a day?

Not a perfect fit but definitely cool.

You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage. You'd need to give small warforged a tiny something extra for them to not be able to use two-handed weapons and one-hand versatile weapons. That's why I suggested: Take Warforged, Give them Small, Give them +1 to Reflex Defense.
#24
jtrowell
May 26, 2009 9:51:08
You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage. You'd need to give small warforged a tiny something extra for them to not be able to use two-handed weapons and one-hand versatile weapons. That's why I suggested: Take Warforged, Give them Small, Give them +1 to Reflex Defense.

I had to convert the warforged scout of a player in my 3.5 Eberron campaign when we upgraded to 4th edition.

I just did the following changes :

- +2 DEX instead of +2 STR
- small size
- kept the +1 will bonus (for normal WF this bonus balance racial bonus affecting the same defense, for the scout it balances the small size)
- +2 Stealth instead of +2 intimidation (all small races get a stealth bonus I think, and it is more appropriate than intimidation)
#25
AvonRekaes
May 26, 2009 11:42:13 That works out pretty well. I like.
#26
Siberys
May 26, 2009 12:42:23 That's exactly what I was going to do for a friend who wants a WFS, though I was thinking about dropping the Will bonus for something else. Keeping it makes sense, though.
#27
Black_Egg
May 30, 2009 23:45:32
You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage.

It is a disadvantage, but not in a huge number of ways. A character that isn't built for using two-handed weapons probably would never notice whether they are Small or Medium size. I haven't noticed Halflings suffering too terribly.
#28
lyran
May 31, 2009 14:29:36
- +2 DEX instead of +2 STR
- small size
- kept the +1 will bonus (for normal WF this bonus balance racial bonus affecting the same defense, for the scout it balances the small size)
- +2 Stealth instead of +2 intimidation (all small races get a stealth bonus I think, and it is more appropriate than intimidation)

Yoink. I think I'll be using this. One problem though, racial powers. They need a racial power. And I really don't think that Warforged Resolve works. Perahps a smaller race power?
#29
jtrowell
Jun 01, 2009 5:56:32
Yoink. I think I'll be using this. One problem though, racial powers. They need a racial power. And I really don't think that Warforged Resolve works. Perahps a smaller race power?

For now I still use Warforged Resolve, being small does not prevent the WS from behind hard to kill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Jay_Ibero_911 May 14, 2009 1:14:48	With the book coming out next month, obviously it will have warforged and artificer information...but I'm curious as to what else may be in it...we already got shifters from PHB2, though there will probably be some more racial feats and paragon path options...Changelings/Dopplegangers may show up...and there were the Kalashtar too...
#2 Tharag_Bocc May 14, 2009 2:48:59	I'd love to see the return of the warforged scout (small sized warforged, for those not in the know), but I'm not going to hold my breath.
#3 joni-san May 14, 2009 12:49:28	I'd love to see the return of the warforged scout (small sized warforged, for those not in the know), but I'm not going to hold my breath. This.
#4 Nived May 14, 2009 15:56:33	I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either.
#5 fey_feline May 14, 2009 16:57:38	I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either. Daelkyr-Halfblood needs to be in this book. Mostly because I need it.
#6 Alex_ May 14, 2009 17:15:37	I wouldn't expect it, they were never particularly popular. They may rate a monster entry sometime, but I wouldn't expect a full PC class write up. I'd expect to see the Daelkyr Halfblood first, not that I expect to see them anytime soon either. What's up with people and the Daelky half-blood? I never knew it was so popular.
#7 Nived May 14, 2009 17:19:32	Because really its the only other 'race' that is purely Eberron that's not a variation on another race, like the Warforged Scouts or the Psiforged. Its the 'fifth' Eberron race, never very loved easily overlooked, but hey he was around. Had a buddy create a DHB sorcerer who used Alter Self constantly... by the rules of 3.5 alter self he could change himself into other aberrations of his HD or lower, he combed through books for various creatures he could use for flight or burrowing (because you gained their movement abilities). Powergaming? Sure. Muchkin? Maybe a little, but it was a very interesting character.
#8 fey_feline May 15, 2009 10:01:25	What's up with people and the Daelky half-blood? I never knew it was so popular. The fun thing? IO've never played 3E. I got a crapload of Eberron Sourcebooks for my birthday, and I really liked Magic of Eberron.
#9 lyran May 15, 2009 14:58:43	Not at all. The Warforged scouts were never extremey popular. Your more likely to see Dealkyr Half-bloods or Psiforged than a Warforged scout (because that is what the majority wants). It would be nice if they keep Warforged customization feats like Mithrel Body. Who knows maybe there will be a warforged feat that makes you a scout. (If they don't then maybe I'll make that! ;))
#10 AvonRekaes May 15, 2009 15:32:23	Daelkyr-Halfblood needs to be in this book. Mostly because I need it. Might I humbly direct you here? I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat)
#11 Talae May 15, 2009 16:12:01	Couldn't you just change the size of the warforged? I say that without remembering exactly what the difference was, other than being smaller.
#12 AvonRekaes May 15, 2009 16:41:23	I'd probably do this, yeah. Maybe knock either the Warforged's Strength or Con into Dex. I'm not sure what powerlevel being Small occupies in 4th edition. I know it limits your weapon options. It seems like a general debuff then. You might want to give them a small bonus on top of it. Looking at Goblins, they have a racial +1 to Reflex defense, despite having two ability score bonii in scores that apply to separate defenses, including Reflex. So they basically get a double-shot of buffing to Reflex. Maybe you could keep the Scout's warforged ability bonii the same, but add "Scout Reflexes" and give them a bump to Reflex defense.
#13 lyran May 15, 2009 16:55:06	Might I humbly direct you here? I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat) To any one is intrested in a Dealkyr Half-blood, click on this! Great work AvonRekaes! I'd probably do this, yeah. Maybe knock either the Warforged's Strength or Con into Dex. I'm not sure what powerlevel being Small occupies in 4th edition. I know it limits your weapon options. It seems like a general debuff then. You might want to give them a small bonus on top of it. Looking at Goblins, they have a racial +1 to Reflex defense, despite having two ability score bonii in scores that apply to separate defenses, including Reflex. So they basically get a double-shot of buffing to Reflex. Maybe you could keep the Scout's warforged ability bonii the same, but add "Scout Reflexes" and give them a bump to Reflex defense. Sounds good to me. Although I still like my idea of some sort of cutomization feat.
#14 Talae May 15, 2009 18:14:05	You could actually combine those two ideas and make a Warforged feat that gives +1 Reflex defense and small size.
#15 That_Blasted_Somoflange May 15, 2009 18:38:21	You could actually combine those two ideas and make a Warforged feat that gives +1 Reflex defense and small size. So if I Retrain the feat I instantly grow in size? Or if I take the feat at 12th level, I shrink? No, the best option is to make it an feature that can't be changed. Really, just giving the warforged small size works well enough for me to represent the warforged scout. Why can't they be just as strong and tough, just smaller?
#16 rauric May 15, 2009 18:54:25	There is no tradeoff then. The small size limits there weapon choices. The smaller races seem to have great defensive encounter (racial) abilities. THe bonus to ref is nice but perhaps they get a better temp hp than their larger cousins.
#17 lyran May 16, 2009 20:06:10	So if I Retrain the feat I instantly grow in size? Or if I take the feat at 12th level, I shrink? No, the best option is to make it an feature that can't be changed. Really, just giving the warforged small size works well enough for me to represent the warforged scout. Why can't they be just as strong and tough, just smaller? Just make it a feat that can only be taken at first level and can't be retrained.
#18 RedRider May 16, 2009 20:28:51	I don't expect to see it in the EPG (And if they cut the Kalashtar to do so, I'd be annoyed) but perhaps we'll see it in MM2 or MM3? Possibly as a Dragon article maybe?
#19 need_a_life May 23, 2009 0:04:03	How about using Warforged stats, saying that it's small and call it a scout? It wouldn't make a difference mechanically, so no issue there, and according to the holy fluff of the Eberron setting Warforged scouts did exist (though their racial traits seemed ill-conceived [No Darkvision for 24/7 scouts?]), so everything should be fine. In many cases, I find that filing the serial numbers off a piece of mechanic works best.
#20 fey_feline May 23, 2009 19:04:03	Might I humbly direct you here? I generic-ized them to be used in the non-Eberron game I play in online, but everyone really knows what they are. (I.E. change Deep Speech to Daelkyr, and any mention of the Far Realm to Xoriat) Woah, thanks!
#21 AvonRekaes May 23, 2009 21:41:22	:D No problem! Glad you like it. :D
#22 jim_darkmagic_fanboy_dup May 24, 2009 2:42:02	Couldn't you just take the Warforged, make it small, give it a DEX bonus, eliminate one of the big 'forge's stat bonuses and call it a day? Not a perfect fit but definitely cool.
#23 AvonRekaes May 24, 2009 13:01:55	Couldn't you just take the Warforged, make it small, give it a DEX bonus, eliminate one of the big 'forge's stat bonuses and call it a day? Not a perfect fit but definitely cool. You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage. You'd need to give small warforged a tiny something extra for them to not be able to use two-handed weapons and one-hand versatile weapons. That's why I suggested: Take Warforged, Give them Small, Give them +1 to Reflex Defense.
#24 jtrowell May 26, 2009 9:51:08	You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage. You'd need to give small warforged a tiny something extra for them to not be able to use two-handed weapons and one-hand versatile weapons. That's why I suggested: Take Warforged, Give them Small, Give them +1 to Reflex Defense. I had to convert the warforged scout of a player in my 3.5 Eberron campaign when we upgraded to 4th edition. I just did the following changes : - +2 DEX instead of +2 STR - small size - kept the +1 will bonus (for normal WF this bonus balance racial bonus affecting the same defense, for the scout it balances the small size) - +2 Stealth instead of +2 intimidation (all small races get a stealth bonus I think, and it is more appropriate than intimidation)
#25 AvonRekaes May 26, 2009 11:42:13	That works out pretty well. I like.
#26 Siberys May 26, 2009 12:42:23	That's exactly what I was going to do for a friend who wants a WFS, though I was thinking about dropping the Will bonus for something else. Keeping it makes sense, though.
#27 Black_Egg May 30, 2009 23:45:32	You could, but being Small in 4e is a flat-out disadvantage. It is a disadvantage, but not in a huge number of ways. A character that isn't built for using two-handed weapons probably would never notice whether they are Small or Medium size. I haven't noticed Halflings suffering too terribly.
#28 lyran May 31, 2009 14:29:36	- +2 DEX instead of +2 STR - small size - kept the +1 will bonus (for normal WF this bonus balance racial bonus affecting the same defense, for the scout it balances the small size) - +2 Stealth instead of +2 intimidation (all small races get a stealth bonus I think, and it is more appropriate than intimidation) Yoink. I think I'll be using this. One problem though, racial powers. They need a racial power. And I really don't think that Warforged Resolve works. Perahps a smaller race power?
#29 jtrowell Jun 01, 2009 5:56:32	Yoink. I think I'll be using this. One problem though, racial powers. They need a racial power. And I really don't think that Warforged Resolve works. Perahps a smaller race power? For now I still use Warforged Resolve, being small does not prevent the WS from behind hard to kill.