Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rauric Mar 18, 2008 7:42:01	How are you going to use tieflings until the new 4e EB book comes out? Here was my idea. I actually had an idea of elves that made pacts with devils to save them from the giants. The pact transformed them into something other than elves and they would have to be bonded for thousands of years. They went to an island and used their magics to hide it from others. They would then wander Eberron offering wishes or "help" to tohers that needed it. I called them the Bargainers. In the year 980 they were released from their pact. I was going to use this for my 3.5 campaign before I knew about the 4E stuff. I know tieflings can come from the demonwastes also but I didn't like just restricting them to one area. On the other hand they may go with Keiths idea about tieflings and genasi being born near Planar Rifts. If so I will just say there are two ways one can become tieflings.
#2 Edymnion Mar 18, 2008 7:58:54	Same way I've always used them in Eberron. They're out there somewhere, since they're core creatures, with less racial hate than in other settings. Most likely born while a plane like Mabar was coterminus. Rare, but not unheard of.
#3 Syltorian Mar 18, 2008 11:29:28	Tieflings, IMC, are a mixed bunch. The fact that 4E is coming out and has made them a core race does not change how I use them. Some were born/conveived while Mabar, Fernia, or a similar plane was coterminous, as Edymnion says, or they were born/conceived in a manifest zone of the same. The freak planar storms of Riedra can also cause such births if they happen at the right (or wrong) time. Similarly, those born in or near the containment places of Rajahs can take on tiefling traits; the Demon Wastes are the prime example of fiendish influence being this strong, but any similarly tainted area works. The children and descendants of people who were merely possessed at the time of conception/birth can also carry this taint. Others are the descendants of people who had actual intercourse with fiends (not necessarily the kind that involves succubi and incubi), whether they can trace their origin back to Ohr Kaluun (sp?), the Demon Wastes, or isolated experiments - much like the one you (Rauric) put at the origin of your tieflings.
#4 Cyber-Dave Mar 18, 2008 11:39:15	As an interesting side note, the people of the Demon Wastes can generally trace their lineage back to Ohr Kaluun.
#5 thekeyofe Mar 18, 2008 20:39:57	As a side note, in my opinion there shouldn't be such a thing as a "normal" tiefling. By normal, I mean a tiefling commoner. As Edy said, they exist but they're very rare, and by their very nature are "exceptional" compared to normal humans. In other words, tieflings probably should not be more common than 1 or 2 in 1000, and they should all have levels in PC classes. This means that players are unrestricted when choosing tiefling as their race, but aren't likely to ever meet an NPC tiefling. In my opinion, dragonborn should be the same way. Treat dragonborn the way 3.5 treated half-dragons in Eb; very rare, and maybe even hunted by the Chamber if their sire dragon was a dangerous rogue.
#6 Syltorian Mar 19, 2008 9:09:51	As an interesting side note, the people of the Demon Wastes can generally trace their lineage back to Ohr Kaluun. Good point! I had completely forgotten that. As a side note, in my opinion there shouldn't be such a thing as a "normal" tiefling. By normal, I mean a tiefling commoner. As Edy said, they exist but they're very rare, and by their very nature are "exceptional" compared to normal humans. In other words, tieflings probably should not be more common than 1 or 2 in 1000, and they should all have levels in PC classes. I have mixed feelings about that. I agree there should be no 'normal' tiefling, but not in the sense that there should be no tiefling commoner. It might be interesting if the local cobbler has to live with the results of having been conceived while Mabar was coterminous; such cases would still be rare (one per campaign, maximum, unless the campaign focuses on this taint), but I would not rule it out completely. I would be loathe, though, to give them their own culture except outside the Demon Wastes, where they might be considered prophets and blessed amongst their tribe. But even there, he could be a pampered aristocrat who never has to do the fighting or hunting because the rest of the tribe cares for him, and as a result has no valuable skills whatsoever.
#7 elonin Mar 19, 2008 20:15:56	In my opinion as long as they are making tieflings 1/2 demons or devils they should suffer a worse stigma than 1/2 elves do. Maybe they say something different in 4e though.
#8 Edymnion Mar 19, 2008 20:25:04	In my opinion as long as they are making tieflings 1/2 demons or devils they should suffer a worse stigma than 1/2 elves do. Maybe they say something different in 4e though. Um, what stigma do half elves have in Eberron? They're a highly influencial race that command what may very well be the coolest organization in the setting, House Lyrander. If thats a stigma, somebody discriminate me, stat!
#9 siran_dunmorgan Mar 21, 2008 0:41:16	Um, what stigma do half elves have in Eberron? They're a highly influencial race that command what may very well be the coolest organization in the setting, House Lyrander. If thats a stigma, somebody discriminate me, stat! [penny-dreadful nonsense] The stigma of half-elves? Everyone is afraid of half-elves because they turn into krakens when they get old. [/penny-dreadful nonsense] On topic, I strongly suspect that we'll see an article with official or near-official status sometime in mid-to-late summer describing the position of tieflings in Eberron, including a more comprehensive origin story than tiefling-ism being effectively a birth defect. Hellcow mentioned being in the process of figuring out what to do with tieflings in an official sense in an earlier post: I'm certain his answer will be highly creative, unexpected, and mesh perfectly with Eberron as it has gone before, all the while adding a new and vibrant "twist" to the tiefling as portrayed in the core books. —Siran Dunmorgan
#10 elonin Mar 21, 2008 5:58:28	In many worlds 1/2 elves didn't belong in either society. It was most prominent in dragon lance but was true to a lesser extent in other campaigns. Think back to tolkien which is the basis of dnd elves to the story of luthien and beren (if you want my daughter you'll have to get an artifact from this god and bring it here---and he said no anyway).
#11 Nived Mar 21, 2008 10:31:09	I think its going to be a non issue. For most PCs the racial origin just plain doesn't matter, in the average campaign how the Changling race came into being will never come up. So the origins of the Tieflings right now doesn't matter to me. I'm going to have them exist in my campaign the same way I did in 3.5, just another fairly rare humanoid that makes a life for themselves in Khorvaire. Legally protected under the Code of Galifar (see Sharn: City of Towers), they're not common, probably most common in Sharn (along the monstrous humanoid populations of the lower city), Droaam (where they've found a kind of acceptance), the Demon Wastes, and Aundair (for its proximity to the demon wastes). Though rare everywhere wouldn't be opposed to one from Thrane. They'd be discriminated against (as most non-humans seem to be in Thrane) but the whole Tiefling Paladin of the Silver Flame would be just too good to pass on. So yeah, humanoid with clearly fiendish heritage, whether that's because of the planes, or if it goes back to Khyber, or back to a Sarlonan Empire doesn't matter to me. They're citizens of their respective natures, a lot of people might not like them (particularly religious zealots), they aren't great in number, but they're around.